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Avoid uci (UC Irvine) law
Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 5:06 pm
by perferanonymous
Avoid uci (Irvine) law, seriously. Teaching quality is horrendous. Many first year teachers have little or no teaching experience. You are paying your tuition to train THEM. The most egregious example is Glater: little law practice or teaching experience, totally incompetent in classroom (absolutely the worst of the worst), yet has the audacity to teach both criminal law and corporations. WTF!!!
Another example: a 1L teacher doesn’t even read the case/notes he assigned, changes his answer each time you ask him, doesn’t even understand the basic doctrines, but tests you on material he NEVER mentioned in class and then throws you a big fat policy question to entertain himself and assigns random scores. HORROR!!!
Very few past exams to prepare yourself. Each class is a gamble.
What about the “innovative” curriculum? The only noticeable difference is a 4 unit letter grade legal ETHICS in first year. You don’t even know the law yet; does ETHICS make any sense??? Sit in the back row and watch what people are doing. This class is a total waste of time. If you have the slightest interest in UCI, you should insist on visiting this class before you decide.
The school has a few really good teachers. The problem is that you can't choose your teachers and end up paying for egregious incompetence. Overall, not worth it.
Re: Avoid uci (UC Irvine) law
Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 5:10 pm
by IAFG
People pick out law schools based on teaching quality?
Re: Avoid uci (UC Irvine) law
Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 5:11 pm
by atcushman
--ImageRemoved--
Re: Avoid uci (UC Irvine) law
Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 5:31 pm
by Ofta3184
IAFG wrote:People pick out law schools based on teaching quality?
Re: Avoid uci (UC Irvine) law
Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 5:37 pm
by 2014
I think the OP describes law school in general pretty well. Kudos to UCI for emulating it so quickly.
Re: Avoid uci (UC Irvine) law
Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 5:53 pm
by Aqualibrium
It's a shame that the posters here have come to expect poor teaching quality, or no teaching at all, when most law students pay hundreds of dollars per hour of class.
Re: Avoid uci (UC Irvine) law
Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 5:53 pm
by kapital98
atcushman wrote:--ImageRemoved--
Re: Avoid uci (UC Irvine) law
Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 6:08 pm
by IAFG
Aqualibrium wrote:It's a shame that the posters here have come to expect poor teaching quality, or no teaching at all, when most law students pay hundreds of dollars per hour of class.
We pay for the degree.
Re: Avoid uci (UC Irvine) law
Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 6:13 pm
by 071816
Who gives a fuck about teaching? Law school is a jerk off no matter where you go.
Re: Avoid uci (UC Irvine) law
Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 6:14 pm
by 071816
IAFG wrote:Aqualibrium wrote:It's a shame that the posters here have come to expect poor teaching quality, or no teaching at all, when most law students pay hundreds of dollars per hour of class.
We pay for the degree.
This. It's a credentialing racket. Not a place to learn.
Re: Avoid uci (UC Irvine) law
Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 6:41 pm
by dingbat
There are far better reasons to avoid UCI than the chance you might have a bad teacher
Re: Avoid uci (UC Irvine) law
Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 7:44 pm
by atcushman
sounds like someone didnt grade on to law review
Re: Avoid uci (UC Irvine) law
Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 8:37 pm
by bennettattack
First of all, @atchushman, you don't "grade" onto LR at UCI. You have to apply.
Second, to address the individual who started this post (I am not afraid to use my name. If you go, or more likely WENT, in the past tense, to UCI, you can figure out who I am):
UCI is 100% what you make of it. It is innovative, for a law school. Sure, it could be better. Things always can be better. Let me ask you this, what did you do to try to make UCI what you wanted it to be, besides anonymously complaining here on TLS?
I was unhappy with a few instructors who lacked in the teaching department 1L year (definitely in the minority-- most professors were fantastic) and so I joined the Faculty Appointments Committee so I could have a say (albeit a small one) in who gets hired from now on. And you know what? It's been pretty fantastic. But yeah, it's work, and from your post it sounds like you're the kind of person who just wants things easily handed to them on a platter, so you know, work may not be your strong suit.
The things that UCI does get very right are the small class sizes and open-door policy amongst instructors. If you think you could have gone to another T-20 school (because let's be real, T-20 status is why most of us wanted to come to UCI) and gotten nearly as much access to faculty and services, I think you don't know enough people that go to other law schools. Law school takes work and initiative. If you're unhappy with your situation, you need to do something about it. Go to office hours, talk to Academic Support, etc. Truthfully, law school is mostly about you teaching yourself the law.. your professors are not there to hand it to you. They are there to make it hard on you, in one way or another. But they're also there to help. Yes, new teachers are always going to need work. But you know what? Most law schools put their new training faculty in the Legal Research/Writing department, where not only can they not really teach, but they're also teaching you the REALLY IMPORTANT STUFF, like research and writing. Me? I'd rather take a newbie in a doctrinal class where I can use outside sources to help me understand than a newbie teaching the bread and butter of legal work.
As for Legal Profession-- you know what? That's the class that got me my summer job for next year. It's another example of putting work in to get what you want. If you phone it in, you'll get lackluster results. If you use it to learn, make connections, and read some insights into the profession, it will help.
I'm sorry you didn't get everything you wanted, but maybe this is just a good life lesson for you-- even when you pay for something, you don't get exactly everything you want. Law school (and the legal profession in general) are great examples. Oh yeah, and we got a 40% scholarship in the class of 2014, so shut the hell up about the money.
Re: Avoid uci (UC Irvine) law
Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 8:45 pm
by dingbat
Re: Avoid uci (UC Irvine) law
Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 8:51 pm
by rickgrimes69
Re: Avoid uci (UC Irvine) law
Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 8:53 pm
by stratocophic
I do love me some UCI trolls. I'm going to have to come back to TLS and start bi-weekly point and laugh threads once they finally do get ranked and wind up as a T2
Re: Avoid uci (UC Irvine) law
Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 9:22 pm
by timbs4339
bennettattack wrote:First of all, @atchushman, you don't "grade" onto LR at UCI. You have to apply.
Second, to address the individual who started this post (I am not afraid to use my name. If you go, or more likely WENT, in the past tense, to UCI, you can figure out who I am):
UCI is 100% what you make of it. It is innovative, for a law school. Sure, it could be better. Things always can be better. Let me ask you this, what did you do to try to make UCI what you wanted it to be, besides anonymously complaining here on TLS?
I was unhappy with a few instructors who lacked in the teaching department 1L year (definitely in the minority-- most professors were fantastic) and so I joined the Faculty Appointments Committee so I could have a say (albeit a small one) in who gets hired from now on. And you know what? It's been pretty fantastic. But yeah, it's work, and from your post it sounds like you're the kind of person who just wants things easily handed to them on a platter, so you know, work may not be your strong suit.
The things that UCI does get very right are the small class sizes and open-door policy amongst instructors. If you think you could have gone to another T-20 school (because let's be real, T-20 status is why most of us wanted to come to UCI) and gotten nearly as much access to faculty and services, I think you don't know enough people that go to other law schools. Law school takes work and initiative. If you're unhappy with your situation, you need to do something about it. Go to office hours, talk to Academic Support, etc. Truthfully, law school is mostly about you teaching yourself the law.. your professors are not there to hand it to you. They are there to make it hard on you, in one way or another. But they're also there to help. Yes, new teachers are always going to need work. But you know what? Most law schools put their new training faculty in the Legal Research/Writing department, where not only can they not really teach, but they're also teaching you the REALLY IMPORTANT STUFF, like research and writing. Me? I'd rather take a newbie in a doctrinal class where I can use outside sources to help me understand than a newbie teaching the bread and butter of legal work.
As for Legal Profession-- you know what? That's the class that got me my summer job for next year. It's another example of putting work in to get what you want. If you phone it in, you'll get lackluster results. If you use it to learn, make connections, and read some insights into the profession, it will help.
I'm sorry you didn't get everything you wanted, but maybe this is just a good life lesson for you-- even when you pay for something, you don't get exactly everything you want. Law school (and the legal profession in general) are great examples. Oh yeah, and we got a 40% scholarship in the class of 2014, so shut the hell up about the money.
Come on OP we get it, you don't like UCI. Don't sockpuppet now.
Re: Avoid uci (UC Irvine) law
Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 9:31 pm
by bennettattack
stratocophic wrote:I do love me some UCI trolls. I'm going to have to come back to TLS and start bi-weekly point and laugh threads once they finally do get ranked and wind up as a T2
@Stratocophic: I actually go to UCI, which means my being on this post is entirely relevant. It sounds to me like you are the troll.
Re: Avoid uci (UC Irvine) law
Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 9:37 pm
by girlishoutline
I think the OP describes law school in general pretty well.
Right? Welcome to the hell that is law school. UCI for SURE has some kinks to work out, but it's a lot better than it
could be, and it's actively trying to improve all the time. Next time, try bringing these complaints to the appropriate ears - it's not like there aren't enough opportunities to share these kinds of observations with the admin and faculty. The school, like any new organization, will change the things that are made a priority; make your complaints a priority by getting your fellow students involved (we're SUPER willing to help with this kind of thing), and maybe the experience will improve.
Re: Avoid uci (UC Irvine) law
Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 9:42 pm
by girlishoutline
stratocophic wrote:I do love me some UCI trolls. I'm going to have to come back to TLS and start bi-weekly point and laugh threads once they finally do get ranked and wind up as a T2.
Dude, it sounds like you have too much free time on your hands.
Re: Avoid uci (UC Irvine) law
Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 9:55 pm
by dingbat
Before anyone accuses me of anything, I seriously considered UCI, but not because of its supposed T20 status, which is just stupid
(yes, they probably did manage to game the rankings and will probably debut quite high, but they'll settle somewhere in T2 status within a few years)
Re: Avoid uci (UC Irvine) law
Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 9:58 pm
by DeusExCyber
From a 1L at UCI Law:
Whoever this person is reserved his/her comments until a year later cause Glater is one of the most revered 1L professors for the 1L experience... (hence OP is either a disgruntle 2L or troll).
Most likely the OP is a troll since he/she only rails on one professor and justifies his/her reasoning by nitpicking UCI law program through the existence of only one other class (Ethics which no current 1L has taken since it is only a Spring semester course)... Also, OP comment has clear signs that this is "flamebait." I can change some subjects of this post and make this post relate to any law school...
Lastly, this thread is degenerating to a flame war over UCI Law's ranking... Which ultimately leads to no where.
Before I leave this thread, here are my 2 cents on UCI Law:
I think the program is amazing, there is definitely room for improvements (which the OP does not address any one of these... in fact gets plainly wrong for the current 1L experience), and I consider all my classmates excellent friends that I can call on any time I need help because the Admissions/Administration picked some of the best folks around for my class. Lastly, I am receiving full support from the UCI Law in creating my organization on disability rights and advocacy with the aid of Professor Catherine Fisk (Dean Chem's wife). I will be developing this organization into a full fledged center and/or program as well. I can give you a ball park estimate on where I think the ranking will fall in, but that will serve no one at this point
Re: Avoid uci (UC Irvine) law
Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 10:26 pm
by Aqualibrium
Am I the only one who wondered about the quality of student at UCI after reading the posts from OP and DeusEx?
Re: Avoid uci (UC Irvine) law
Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 10:30 pm
by hume85
Aqualibrium wrote:Am I the only one who wondered about the quality of student at UCI after reading the posts from OP and DeusEx?
Re: Avoid uci (UC Irvine) law
Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 10:31 pm
by stratocophic
girlishoutline wrote:stratocophic wrote:I do love me some UCI trolls. I'm going to have to come back to TLS and start bi-weekly point and laugh threads once they finally do get ranked and wind up as a T2.
Dude, it sounds like you have too much free time on your hands.
Perhaps, but I'm pretending I'm going to have time to do things like that after lawl school so just let me have this
Besides, y'all apparently weren't here for the UCI rankings circlejerking that took place before the school opened, I shouldn't be too harsh
