Military Law: W&M, BC, ND

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pcjudge
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Military Law: W&M, BC, ND

Postby pcjudge » Sat Dec 22, 2012 5:49 pm

I'm trying to choose between a few different schools: William and Mary, Boston College and Notre Dame. I've been accepted at William and Mary already and I think there is a reasonable chance I will be accepted at one of the other two.

My situation is somewhat unique because I don't need to worry about immediate employment prospects. I'm in the Army and my packet is currently being handled by the Judge Advocate General Corps, so I'll be a JAG officer immediately out of law school.

I feel like I would be happy at any of the three, perhaps a bit less so at ND, given it's in the middle of nowhere (I know Williamsburg is no metropolis, but I live there now and I like it). Would the added prestige of BC or ND be worth the additional tuition costs? If I got out of the military after 8 years in the JAG Corps, would going to William and Mary limit me to Virginia, or would I be able to move around more given military law experience?

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twenty
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Re: Military Law: W&M, BC, ND

Postby twenty » Sat Dec 22, 2012 6:47 pm

If you're absolutely for sure getting a spot in the JAG after law school, it really doesn't matter where you go, since the school kind of doesn't count for anything after your first job, with the exception of HYS and maybe a few others. But jeez. If you're paying for any of this out of pocket, drop down in the rankings until you hit something with a full/close to it ride.

Military puts you on kind of a "national" track coming out (i.e, feds, hiring priority at DAs) that really don't care about regional stuff once you've been out of school that long.

Your priorities should probably be:

1) T1 or better
2) Cheapest to you (scholarship money, GI bill, etc)
3) Best location to spend three years

Have fun.

EDIT> I'd also like to make a not so subtle plug for UCI/USD. If could pick somewhere on location alone, it would be one of those two. I'd certainly take either one over U&M or ND.

lulz
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Re: Military Law: W&M, BC, ND

Postby lulz » Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:30 pm

I don't think anyone thinks of any of those schools as more or less prestigious than the other/s. Sounds like you'll be fine wherever you go.

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ndirish2010
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Re: Military Law: W&M, BC, ND

Postby ndirish2010 » Sat Dec 22, 2012 8:25 pm

If you like Williamsburg, just go to W&M.

jstr00az
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Re: Military Law: W&M, BC, ND

Postby jstr00az » Sat Dec 22, 2012 8:57 pm

I'm assuming you're going on a full ride or at least a heavily subsidized ride courtesy of the Army. If so, it doesn't really matter where you go. My co-counsel went on a full ride from the Marines, was a prosecutor and defense lawyer and judge, and has done very well. The marine corps mafia has helped him more than where he went. No one has every asked him where he graduated from law school. The ask him about his trial experience in the military.

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BruceWayne
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Re: Military Law: W&M, BC, ND

Postby BruceWayne » Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:18 pm

^ Do they ask about his grades? Seriously.

wired
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Re: Military Law: W&M, BC, ND

Postby wired » Mon Dec 24, 2012 12:10 pm

pcjudge wrote:I'm trying to choose between a few different schools: William and Mary, Boston College and Notre Dame. I've been accepted at William and Mary already and I think there is a reasonable chance I will be accepted at one of the other two.

My situation is somewhat unique because I don't need to worry about immediate employment prospects. I'm in the Army and my packet is currently being handled by the Judge Advocate General Corps, so I'll be a JAG officer immediately out of law school.

I feel like I would be happy at any of the three, perhaps a bit less so at ND, given it's in the middle of nowhere (I know Williamsburg is no metropolis, but I live there now and I like it). Would the added prestige of BC or ND be worth the additional tuition costs? If I got out of the military after 8 years in the JAG Corps, would going to William and Mary limit me to Virginia, or would I be able to move around more given military law experience?


W&M 3L, so I might be biased.

No, W&M won't limit you after 8 years of experience in JAG. It won't open doors or drop jaws like HYS would, but past those schools the difference between ND, W&M, and BC will be marginal. (BC better in Northeast, W&M better in mid-Atlantic, ND provides broader networking opportunities and better in mid-West.)

W&M does have a good number of FLEPs each year. There's usually about twenty to thirty activity duty or reserve military in the school year-to-year. So there's a pretty good community for military folks. If you want to be put in contact with anyone, PM me and I can try to connect you.

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jenesaislaw
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Re: Military Law: W&M, BC, ND

Postby jenesaislaw » Mon Dec 24, 2012 3:39 pm

I think there's been a lot of solid advice in this thread. I'm more curious to hear about the JAG guarantee of employment. Is it really a guarantee? Or are they just saying you're going to be considered at the top of the pile?

I am curious because it seems like a wholly irrational thing for the JAG to do. Why would they, without knowing your proclivity for legal work, guarantee you one of the most competitive jobs out there?

Just for the record, this has nothing to do with you. You may be a superstar in the making. I'm just trying to get inside the head of the people making employment guarantees before somebody goes to school.

wired
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Re: Military Law: W&M, BC, ND

Postby wired » Mon Dec 24, 2012 5:44 pm

jenesaislaw wrote:I think there's been a lot of solid advice in this thread. I'm more curious to hear about the JAG guarantee of employment. Is it really a guarantee? Or are they just saying you're going to be considered at the top of the pile?

I am curious because it seems like a wholly irrational thing for the JAG to do. Why would they, without knowing your proclivity for legal work, guarantee you one of the most competitive jobs out there?

Just for the record, this has nothing to do with you. You may be a superstar in the making. I'm just trying to get inside the head of the people making employment guarantees before somebody goes to school.


This is not an unusual arrangement. It only applies to individuals on active duty. The military pays for them to attend law school (to a certain tuition point) and funnels them into a JAG position afterward. The big key being, you have to be active duty already and its a competitive application to do it. (So not every active duty serviceman can just decide to go to law school.)

This is entirely different from application to go into JAG after law school after having been a civilian the entire time.

pcjudge
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Re: Military Law: W&M, BC, ND

Postby pcjudge » Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:17 pm

It's not technically a guarantee, but I'll be at the top of the pile. I received an educational delay for law school instead of getting assigned a branch at the end of four years of ROTC. The army isn't paying for fit, I am. With my background and historical acceptance rates for educational delay cadets, I am very likely to be selected for JAG. Soldiers coming off active duty use the Funded Legal Education Program, which does pay but has tons of strings attached.

JAG is sorta weird with who they accept. They value a military background because the brilliant academic superstars who direct commission from the civilian world often don't really get the army culture, and end up hating it. The army likes to hold onto people. I've also found the army doesn't really ever give a shit about school rankings. For ROTC rankings, a Harvard GPA is identical to a Liberty GPA. Which may not be exactly equitable.

Thanks very much for the advice everyone.

paul554
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Re: Military Law: W&M, BC, ND

Postby paul554 » Tue Dec 25, 2012 1:09 pm

pcjudge wrote:It's not technically a guarantee, but I'll be at the top of the pile. I received an educational delay for law school instead of getting assigned a branch at the end of four years of ROTC. The army isn't paying for fit, I am. With my background and historical acceptance rates for educational delay cadets, I am very likely to be selected for JAG. Soldiers coming off active duty use the Funded Legal Education Program, which does pay but has tons of strings attached.

JAG is sorta weird with who they accept. They value a military background because the brilliant academic superstars who direct commission from the civilian world often don't really get the army culture, and end up hating it. The army likes to hold onto people. I've also found the army doesn't really ever give a shit about school rankings. For ROTC rankings, a Harvard GPA is identical to a Liberty GPA. Which may not be exactly equitable.

Thanks very much for the advice everyone.


Go to whichever school is the cheapest. Don't worry about anything else, you are contractually bound for at least 3 years plus your Ed delay time so the military will be your employer for the foreseeable future. No one will really care that you graduated top of your class at xxxx school outside of T14, 5 or so years ago. What they will care about is your WE as an officer and what you accomplished during your career. Don't take on 90K debt when it won't serve any real purpose.

pcjudge
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Re: Military Law: W&M, BC, ND

Postby pcjudge » Tue Dec 25, 2012 3:40 pm

It seems like the general consensus is that the school you're from matters considerably less after 8+ years in the legal field, which I'd be doing in the JAG Corps. Is this true?

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SemperLegal
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Re: Military Law: W&M, BC, ND

Postby SemperLegal » Tue Dec 25, 2012 4:27 pm

Try to limit your debt and plan for this (http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/prime/2 ... ts-112612/) to happen a few more times before you pick up the railroad tracks.

Slevin Kelevra 2011
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Re: Military Law: W&M, BC, ND

Postby Slevin Kelevra 2011 » Wed Dec 26, 2012 3:39 pm

If the army is picking up the tab, go to BC. Otherwise, go wherever is cheapest.




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