UVA NY Big law prospects?

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sinfiery
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Re: UVA NY Big law prospects?

Postby sinfiery » Mon Dec 24, 2012 4:41 pm

Aberzombie1892 wrote:OP, the consensus appears to be that the top 1/3 that I quoted was fairly accurate. It's possible to get NY big law below that mark, but it would be unreasonable to count on it.

I don't know what thread you were reading, but no, that was not the consensus. Also, most here made no distinction between what is reasonable to count on and what isn't. Don't add a layer to the argument most are not analyzing and OP did not ask for.

BruceWayne wrote:If you pull a 3.3 you have a decent shot at NYC. Not great but decent.
3.3 is median


Justin Genious wrote:Top 65% will likely get him/her NYC biglaw.

Desert Fox wrote:Unless UVA places way worse than Northwestern (which I doubt) plenty of people below 40% will get NYC big law.

ChampagnePapi wrote:According to career services, about 55% of c/o 2012 had biglaw (100+ attorneys) at graduation. Maybe tack on another 10% or so (clerkships/genuine self-selection into PI) and you possibly have you UVA chances at biglaw. Call them and ask if youre curious for the exact numbers. And be skeptical I guess, until there's official numbers from the NALP/ABA you never know if you can trust them





Also, I am very curious to see how the 40% In-state quota effects employment statistics/self-selection as someone mentioned. Especially in regards to PI which is unusually high for UVA relative to most T14s.

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UVAIce
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Re: UVA NY Big law prospects?

Postby UVAIce » Mon Dec 24, 2012 4:55 pm

dingbat wrote:
UVAIce wrote:That sort of "bad luck" just doesn't really happen at other schools.

Image
http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=200557


Apologies, but I was really only referring to "peer" schools when I was talking about the grading. I figured it was general knowledge that most T-14 schools have a B+ median or some odd form of honors/pass/fail (Michigan is an exception there) and that I was referring to those kinds of schools when I made those remarks. Unless you're shopping between UVA and a full-ride at a T2 institution, which is the type of school that the mentioned TLS poster goes, it is a serious consideration to understand exactly how UVA's grading policy works. Also, people should be aware how the curve at some TTT institutions work if they decide to attend one. There are a lot of professors that follow a general bell curve (4 A's and 4 B-'s, etc.) at UVA but that isn't a rule but the choice of the professor. If you read that student's situation he or she goes to a school that has mandatory C's - and even D's for that matter - as a part of their curve.

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UVAIce
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Re: UVA NY Big law prospects?

Postby UVAIce » Mon Dec 24, 2012 5:01 pm

Also, if you aren't IP, have some seriously good working experience, or count as a diversity hire I would not count on getting a NYC big law offer from UVA if you aren't at least around median. Even if you had the before mentioned qualities you would also most likely need to be a darn good interviewer. Essentially, if you are just the average K-JD then you will need some serious hustle and luck to get NYC big law from UVA (or really the rest of the T-14) to get NYC big law from below, and lately even at, median.
Last edited by UVAIce on Mon Dec 24, 2012 5:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Aberzombie1892
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Re: UVA NY Big law prospects?

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Mon Dec 24, 2012 5:04 pm

Reread the thread, reread what I wrote specifically, and then reread your post concerning what you think I said. I never said it wasn't possible; I said you couldn't count on it below top 1/3ish. Current students who quoted ranking estimations for NYC quoted ranks directly in line with what I said.

Remember, this thread does not concern big law in general. It only concerns NYC.

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sinfiery
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Re: UVA NY Big law prospects?

Postby sinfiery » Mon Dec 24, 2012 5:12 pm

Aberzombie1892 wrote:Reread the thread, reread what I wrote specifically, and then reread your post concerning what you think I said. I never said it wasn't possible; I said you couldn't count on it below top 1/3ish. Current students who quoted ranking estimations for NYC quoted ranks directly in line with what I said.

Remember, this thread does not concern big law in general. It only concerns NYC.

90% of the discussion ITT has been about whats reasonably possible. And that 90% seems to lead towards the top ~50% having a reasonable chance.


There can't be a consensus for what you stated because no one really analyzed that specific point.

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ExBiglawAssociate
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Re: UVA NY Big law prospects?

Postby ExBiglawAssociate » Sat Dec 29, 2012 11:38 pm

Firms have GPA cutoffs. For UVA, I know my firm's cutoff is a solid 3.4. We absolutely will not call back any UVA 2L who doesn't have at least a 3.4. Take that FWIW. I wouldn't be surprised if other firms have similar cutoffs.

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sinfiery
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Re: UVA NY Big law prospects?

Postby sinfiery » Sun Dec 30, 2012 8:30 am

Biglaw_Associate_V20 wrote:Firms have GPA cutoffs. For UVA, I know my firm's cutoff is a solid 3.4. We absolutely will not call back any UVA 2L who doesn't have at least a 3.4. Take that FWIW. I wouldn't be surprised if other firms have similar cutoffs.

Very curious, what are the cutoffs for Penn/Michi/NYU?

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IAFG
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Re: UVA NY Big law prospects?

Postby IAFG » Sun Dec 30, 2012 9:56 am

sinfiery wrote:
Aberzombie1892 wrote:OP, the consensus appears to be that the top 1/3 that I quoted was fairly accurate. It's possible to get NY big law below that mark, but it would be unreasonable to count on it.

I don't know what thread you were reading, but no, that was not the consensus. Also, most here made no distinction between what is reasonable to count on and what isn't. Don't add a layer to the argument most are not analyzing and OP did not ask for.

BruceWayne wrote:If you pull a 3.3 you have a decent shot at NYC. Not great but decent.
3.3 is median


Justin Genious wrote:Top 65% will likely get him/her NYC biglaw.

Desert Fox wrote:Unless UVA places way worse than Northwestern (which I doubt) plenty of people below 40% will get NYC big law.

ChampagnePapi wrote:According to career services, about 55% of c/o 2012 had biglaw (100+ attorneys) at graduation. Maybe tack on another 10% or so (clerkships/genuine self-selection into PI) and you possibly have you UVA chances at biglaw. Call them and ask if youre curious for the exact numbers. And be skeptical I guess, until there's official numbers from the NALP/ABA you never know if you can trust them





Also, I am very curious to see how the 40% In-state quota effects employment statistics/self-selection as someone mentioned. Especially in regards to PI which is unusually high for UVA relative to most T14s.

I think you misunderstand DF, who was saying if only X% get biglaw, they won't necessarily be the top X%. People in the top 10% (rarely) strike out and people in the bottom 10% get lucky.

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sinfiery
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Re: UVA NY Big law prospects?

Postby sinfiery » Sun Dec 30, 2012 10:07 am

IAFG wrote:I think you misunderstand DF, who was saying if only X% get biglaw, they won't necessarily be the top X%. People in the top 10% (rarely) strike out and people in the bottom 10% get lucky.


I was under the assumption that biglaw had a strong gpa floor in their hiring practices.


So if people below 40% are getting NYC biglaw, they haven't yet hit that floor. Which leads me to assume that NYC can be had by at least ~%50 of the class.

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Re: UVA NY Big law prospects?

Postby IAFG » Sun Dec 30, 2012 10:18 am

sinfiery wrote:
IAFG wrote:I think you misunderstand DF, who was saying if only X% get biglaw, they won't necessarily be the top X%. People in the top 10% (rarely) strike out and people in the bottom 10% get lucky.


I was under the assumption that biglaw had a strong gpa floor in their hiring practices.


So if people below 40% are getting NYC biglaw, they haven't yet hit that floor. Which leads me to assume that NYC can be had by at least ~%50 of the class.

Some but not all firms have a floor that would allow them to dip significantly below median. nYC biglaw "can be had" by a lot more people than the amount who actually get it, if no one in a given UVA class made bidding mistakes and everyone prepped properly for interviews and whatever other mistakes people make.

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Re: UVA NY Big law prospects?

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Sun Dec 30, 2012 10:27 am

The issue was never that UVA students -could not- get NY big law below top 1/3. The issue is that a student couldn't reasonably -expect- to get NY big law outside of that rank. In theory, someone ranked last in the class -could- get big law - but that's irrelevant because that person couldn't reasonably expect to get big law anywhere.

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Re: UVA NY Big law prospects?

Postby IAFG » Sun Dec 30, 2012 10:42 am

Aberzombie1892 wrote:The issue was never that UVA students -could not- get NY big law below top 1/3. The issue is that a student couldn't reasonably -expect- to get NY big law outside of that rank. In theory, someone ranked last in the class -could- get big law - but that's irrelevant because that person couldn't reasonably expect to get big law anywhere.

Okay but that's true at UVA's peers too.

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Re: UVA NY Big law prospects?

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Sun Dec 30, 2012 11:59 am

IAFG wrote:
Aberzombie1892 wrote:The issue was never that UVA students -could not- get NY big law below top 1/3. The issue is that a student couldn't reasonably -expect- to get NY big law outside of that rank. In theory, someone ranked last in the class -could- get big law - but that's irrelevant because that person couldn't reasonably expect to get big law anywhere.

Okay but that's true at UVA's peers too.


Median students at Penn can reasonably expect to land NY big law. Will all of them get it? Certainly not. But it would be a reasonable expectation. Ditto with Columbia.

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IAFG
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Re: UVA NY Big law prospects?

Postby IAFG » Sun Dec 30, 2012 12:06 pm

Aberzombie1892 wrote:
IAFG wrote:
Aberzombie1892 wrote:The issue was never that UVA students -could not- get NY big law below top 1/3. The issue is that a student couldn't reasonably -expect- to get NY big law outside of that rank. In theory, someone ranked last in the class -could- get big law - but that's irrelevant because that person couldn't reasonably expect to get big law anywhere.

Okay but that's true at UVA's peers too.


Median students at Penn can reasonably expect to land NY big law. Will all of them get it? Certainly not. But it would be a reasonable expectation. Ditto with Columbia.

I don't know what "reasonable expectation" means to you.

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Re: UVA NY Big law prospects?

Postby BruceWayne » Sun Dec 30, 2012 12:27 pm

Biglaw_Associate_V20 wrote:Firms have GPA cutoffs. For UVA, I know my firm's cutoff is a solid 3.4. We absolutely will not call back any UVA 2L who doesn't have at least a 3.4. Take that FWIW. I wouldn't be surprised if other firms have similar cutoffs.


This is something that a lot of posters very high on top 14's like to brush under the rug. School name means nothing once you're below a school's cutoff. Big firms have VERY hard cutoffs that they absolutely will not go below. And I'm talking if you're below the cutoff your resume goes straight to the trash. Interviewing and bidding techniques simply don't matter when you're below a big firm's cutoff.

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Re: UVA NY Big law prospects?

Postby Br3v » Sun Dec 30, 2012 12:53 pm

BruceWayne wrote:
Biglaw_Associate_V20 wrote:Firms have GPA cutoffs. For UVA, I know my firm's cutoff is a solid 3.4. We absolutely will not call back any UVA 2L who doesn't have at least a 3.4. Take that FWIW. I wouldn't be surprised if other firms have similar cutoffs.


This is something that a lot of posters very high on top 14's like to brush under the rug. School name means nothing once you're below a school's cutoff. Big firms have VERY hard cutoffs that they absolutely will not go below. And I'm talking if you're below the cutoff your resume goes straight to the trash. Interviewing and bidding techniques simply don't matter when you're below a big firm's cutoff.


How does one find out these cutoffs? Word of mouth?

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Re: UVA NY Big law prospects?

Postby IAFG » Sun Dec 30, 2012 1:10 pm

Br3v wrote:
BruceWayne wrote:
Biglaw_Associate_V20 wrote:Firms have GPA cutoffs. For UVA, I know my firm's cutoff is a solid 3.4. We absolutely will not call back any UVA 2L who doesn't have at least a 3.4. Take that FWIW. I wouldn't be surprised if other firms have similar cutoffs.


This is something that a lot of posters very high on top 14's like to brush under the rug. School name means nothing once you're below a school's cutoff. Big firms have VERY hard cutoffs that they absolutely will not go below. And I'm talking if you're below the cutoff your resume goes straight to the trash. Interviewing and bidding techniques simply don't matter when you're below a big firm's cutoff.


How does one find out these cutoffs? Word of mouth?

The CB data from OCS helps a little, but generally people don't know going in. Also I have heard like 5 different "hard cutoffs" for NU for one particular firm so I would 't trust word of mouth anyway.

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Re: UVA NY Big law prospects?

Postby Br3v » Sun Dec 30, 2012 1:24 pm

IAFG wrote:
Br3v wrote:
BruceWayne wrote:
Biglaw_Associate_V20 wrote:Firms have GPA cutoffs. For UVA, I know my firm's cutoff is a solid 3.4. We absolutely will not call back any UVA 2L who doesn't have at least a 3.4. Take that FWIW. I wouldn't be surprised if other firms have similar cutoffs.


This is something that a lot of posters very high on top 14's like to brush under the rug. School name means nothing once you're below a school's cutoff. Big firms have VERY hard cutoffs that they absolutely will not go below. And I'm talking if you're below the cutoff your resume goes straight to the trash. Interviewing and bidding techniques simply don't matter when you're below a big firm's cutoff.


How does one find out these cutoffs? Word of mouth?

The CB data from OCS helps a little, but generally people don't know going in. Also I have heard like 5 different "hard cutoffs" for NU for one particular firm so I would 't trust word of mouth anyway.

Surprise

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Re: UVA NY Big law prospects?

Postby 09042014 » Sun Dec 30, 2012 1:39 pm

Biglaw_Associate_V20 wrote:Firms have GPA cutoffs. For UVA, I know my firm's cutoff is a solid 3.4. We absolutely will not call back any UVA 2L who doesn't have at least a 3.4. Take that FWIW. I wouldn't be surprised if other firms have similar cutoffs.


So your V20 firm takes people only a little bit above median. That leaves another ~200 firms to take people below median. And some V20s are more picky than others.

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Re: UVA NY Big law prospects?

Postby Borg » Sun Dec 30, 2012 2:36 pm

Aberzombie1892 wrote:
IAFG wrote:
Aberzombie1892 wrote:The issue was never that UVA students -could not- get NY big law below top 1/3. The issue is that a student couldn't reasonably -expect- to get NY big law outside of that rank. In theory, someone ranked last in the class -could- get big law - but that's irrelevant because that person couldn't reasonably expect to get big law anywhere.

Okay but that's true at UVA's peers too.


Median students at Penn can reasonably expect to land NY big law. Will all of them get it? Certainly not. But it would be a reasonable expectation. Ditto with Columbia.


You really are on a mission to try to make people think that Penn is better than it is aren't you?

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Aberzombie1892
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Re: UVA NY Big law prospects?

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Sun Dec 30, 2012 6:02 pm

My goal is transparency and realistic expectations. T14s are not interchangeable, and they should not be regarded as such. If someone wants to reasonably anticipate working in NYC big law from median, they shouldn't look outside the ivy league, Chicago, Standford, and NYU.

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Re: UVA NY Big law prospects?

Postby suralin » Sun Dec 30, 2012 6:11 pm

Aberzombie1892 wrote:My goal is transparency and realistic expectations. T14s are not interchangeable, and they should not be regarded as such. If someone wants to reasonably anticipate working in NYC big law from median, they shouldn't look outside the ivy league, Chicago, Standford, and NYU.


JFC. You're really making use of those good ole cognitive biases aren't you.

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IAFG
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Re: UVA NY Big law prospects?

Postby IAFG » Sun Dec 30, 2012 6:30 pm

Aberzombie1892 wrote:My goal is transparency and realistic expectations. T14s are not interchangeable, and they should not be regarded as such. If someone wants to reasonably anticipate working in NYC big law from median, they shouldn't look outside the ivy league, Chicago, Standford, and NYU.

This is bafflingly dumb.

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Re: UVA NY Big law prospects?

Postby uvabro » Sun Dec 30, 2012 6:33 pm

IAFG wrote:
Aberzombie1892 wrote:My goal is transparency and realistic expectations. T14s are not interchangeable, and they should not be regarded as such. If someone wants to reasonably anticipate working in NYC big law from median, they shouldn't look outside the ivy league, Chicago, Standford, and NYU.

This is bafflingly dumb.

im not baffled. most of what he says is dumb. stop expecting so much of people. you'll be happier.

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Re: UVA NY Big law prospects?

Postby uvabro » Sun Dec 30, 2012 6:34 pm

the odds are 100% out of uva if done right. u just need to eat a lot of protein, lift weights and then move to ny. you will be a big lawyer in new york.




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