UVA $$ V. Penn $ Forum

jstr00az · Post by **jstr00az** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 3:03 pm

I went to Penn undergrad and UVA for grad school. I prefer Philly to Charlottesville, but C-ville is not bad at all, and well worth not having an additional $60k in debt.

dissonance1848 · Post by **dissonance1848** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 3:27 pm

I find it amusing that people are wondering why Penn is being considered a peer of CCN and not MVB. Gee, maybe it has to do with data, like the NLJ250? Penn was right there with CLS, Chicago, and Northwestern at the top of the NLJ250 during the boom. When ITE came, it performed about as well as CLS, Chicago and Northwestern. Penn is definitely not a peer of Michigan or Virginia. That being said, it is also crazy to say Northwestern is a peer of Duke and Cornell. Penn and Northwestern outperform their "prestige" ranks by a quite a bit.

Not saying that OP should not take UVA with 135k. But I do find it ridiculous why people are questioning the higher regard people now have for Penn. Also, check out Raiyner's posts on Penn placement, since he's the placement & employment guru here. He's said basically the same thing.

FlightoftheEarls · Post by **FlightoftheEarls** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 8:10 pm

dissonance1848 wrote:I find it amusing that people are wondering why Penn is being considered a peer of CCN and not MVB. Gee, maybe it has to do with data, like the NLJ250? Penn was right there with CLS, Chicago, and Northwestern at the top of the NLJ250 during the boom. When ITE came, it performed about as well as CLS, Chicago and Northwestern. Penn is definitely not a peer of Michigan or Virginia. That being said, it is also crazy to say Northwestern is a peer of Duke and Cornell. Penn and Northwestern outperform their "prestige" ranks by a quite a bit.

Not saying that OP should not take UVA with 135k. But I do find it ridiculous why people are questioning the higher regard people now have for Penn. Also, check out Raiyner's posts on Penn placement, since he's the placement & employment guru here. He's said basically the same thing.

NLJ may be a good way to determine placement, but it is a pretty terrible way to determine placement ability. The only thing that matters is how deep into a law school class a firm will go, and none of that data for Penn suggests that it has any distinct advantage over MVPDN.

Here's a thread that lays out I'm talking about: http://top-law-schools.com/forums/viewt ... 8&start=25

BruceWayne · Post by **BruceWayne** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 8:27 pm

FlightoftheEarls wrote:NLJ may be a good way to determine placement, but it is a pretty terrible way to determine placement ability. The only thing that matters is how deep into a law school class a firm will go, and none of that data for Penn suggests that it has any distinct advantage over MVPDN.

Here's a thread that lays out I'm talking about: http://top-law-schools.com/forums/viewt ... 8&start=25

It's amazing how many people who haven't gone to law school don't understand this.

gunner3 · Post by **gunner3** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 8:36 pm

Go where you'll be most happy. A lifetime of regretting not going to the school you wanted to attend makes 60k seem small.

smaug_ · Post by **smaug_** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 8:37 pm

gunner3 wrote:Go where you'll be most happy. A lifetime of regretting not going to the school you wanted to attend makes 60k seem small.

60k buys a fair amount of happiness.

dissonance1848 · Post by **dissonance1848** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:18 pm

The question of placement ability versus general placement is another question entirely. Since the typical student should expect median, and median aint getting you a top flight firm job out any schools save for HYS, its not relevant.

Look, yes, CCN does have better placement at elite firms than Penn, but the marginal difference there is not worth overlooking general placement. During the boom one could make the case that elite firm placement mattered more, because 1) everyone got jobs and 2) even between NYU and Penn the difference in elite placement was at least 5% of the class.

And the above becomes stronger when one evaluates Penn's peer schools. Even during the boom, Penn placed much better than UVA and Michigan. Sure, self-selection did have some effect, but it still doesn't cancel out the large differences in placement. Now, the placement differences are about the same, but given the legal climate, more important.

BruceWayne · Post by **BruceWayne** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:20 pm

Keep in mind, OP, that it's 60 + interest. That's a TON of money.

BarbellDreams · Post by **BarbellDreams** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:25 pm

BruceWayne wrote:
FlightoftheEarls wrote:NLJ may be a good way to determine placement, but it is a pretty terrible way to determine placement ability. The only thing that matters is how deep into a law school class a firm will go, and none of that data for Penn suggests that it has any distinct advantage over MVPDN.

Here's a thread that lays out I'm talking about: http://top-law-schools.com/forums/viewt ... 8&start=25
It's amazing how many people who haven't gone to law school don't understand this.

Dear God, this!

Br3v · Post by **Br3v** » Mon Dec 24, 2012 12:06 am

NoodleyOne wrote:
WhirledWorld wrote:I go to Penn, and I cannot believe how many people are insisting Penn is worth 60k more than UVA. It's not, not even if you want NYC biglaw.

First, ask Penn to raise their scholarship, and take the UVA offer to any of the T6 you get into. But if that doesn't change anything, go to UVA unless you cannot stand Charlottesville. Enjoy not having to pay off $60,000 in debt.
This. I don't know what happened recently with Penn that makes people think it's just shy of HYS. It's a great school, but it's still definitely peer with UVA.

Been wondering where this sentiment came from too.

SportsFan · Post by **SportsFan** » Mon Dec 24, 2012 12:32 am

Br3v wrote:
NoodleyOne wrote:
WhirledWorld wrote:I go to Penn, and I cannot believe how many people are insisting Penn is worth 60k more than UVA. It's not, not even if you want NYC biglaw.

First, ask Penn to raise their scholarship, and take the UVA offer to any of the T6 you get into. But if that doesn't change anything, go to UVA unless you cannot stand Charlottesville. Enjoy not having to pay off $60,000 in debt.
This. I don't know what happened recently with Penn that makes people think it's just shy of HYS. It's a great school, but it's still definitely peer with UVA.
Been wondering where this sentiment came from too.

Thats the short answer.

Cobretti · Post by **Cobretti** » Sat Dec 29, 2012 3:22 pm

SportsFan wrote:
Br3v wrote:
NoodleyOne wrote:
WhirledWorld wrote:I go to Penn, and I cannot believe how many people are insisting Penn is worth 60k more than UVA. It's not, not even if you want NYC biglaw.

First, ask Penn to raise their scholarship, and take the UVA offer to any of the T6 you get into. But if that doesn't change anything, go to UVA unless you cannot stand Charlottesville. Enjoy not having to pay off $60,000 in debt.
This. I don't know what happened recently with Penn that makes people think it's just shy of HYS. It's a great school, but it's still definitely peer with UVA.
Been wondering where this sentiment came from too.

Thats the short answer.

I'd be interested in hearing a response to this from someone. Getting ready to send out my Penn app in the next week, and right now I'm going in with the mindset that it places better than its peer schools. Anyone have numbers that show otherwise?

BigZuck · Post by **BigZuck** » Sat Dec 29, 2012 4:20 pm

SportsFan wrote:
Br3v wrote:
NoodleyOne wrote:
WhirledWorld wrote:I go to Penn, and I cannot believe how many people are insisting Penn is worth 60k more than UVA. It's not, not even if you want NYC biglaw.

First, ask Penn to raise their scholarship, and take the UVA offer to any of the T6 you get into. But if that doesn't change anything, go to UVA unless you cannot stand Charlottesville. Enjoy not having to pay off $60,000 in debt.
This. I don't know what happened recently with Penn that makes people think it's just shy of HYS. It's a great school, but it's still definitely peer with UVA.
Been wondering where this sentiment came from too.

Thats the short answer.

So Duke is better than NYU huh? Sweet! I've been looking for something to make me feel better about the fact that I'm in at Duke and will inevitably be dinged at NYU.

Thanks bro!

Borg · Post by **Borg** » Sat Dec 29, 2012 4:31 pm

It's amazing how insecure the Penn people always are. Must still have a lot of baggage from the whole Paterno scandal.

NoodleyOne · Post by **NoodleyOne** » Sat Dec 29, 2012 4:49 pm

Borg wrote:It's amazing how insecure the Penn people always are. Must still have a lot of baggage from the whole Paterno scandal.

Lol

Br3v · Post by **Br3v** » Sat Dec 29, 2012 5:04 pm

NoodleyOne wrote:
Borg wrote:It's amazing how insecure the Penn people always are. Must still have a lot of baggage from the whole Paterno scandal.
Lol

Hope this is sarcastic.

Borg · Post by **Borg** » Sat Dec 29, 2012 5:18 pm

Br3v wrote:
NoodleyOne wrote:
Borg wrote:It's amazing how insecure the Penn people always are. Must still have a lot of baggage from the whole Paterno scandal.
Lol
Hope this is sarcastic.

I know football is more of an undergrad thing, but it still has an effect on the law school. I'd never go there because it's the first thing people think of.

Br3v · Post by **Br3v** » Sat Dec 29, 2012 5:21 pm

Borg wrote:
Br3v wrote:
NoodleyOne wrote:
Borg wrote:It's amazing how insecure the Penn people always are. Must still have a lot of baggage from the whole Paterno scandal.
Lol
Hope this is sarcastic.
I know football is more of an undergrad thing, but it still has an effect on the law school. I'd never go there because it's the first thing people think of.

Penn =/= penn state.

Borg · Post by **Borg** » Sat Dec 29, 2012 5:26 pm

Br3v wrote:Penn =/= penn state.

I don't get what you're trying to say.

Br3v · Post by **Br3v** » Sat Dec 29, 2012 5:32 pm

Borg wrote:
Br3v wrote:Penn =/= penn state.
I don't get what you're trying to say.

Penn state and UPenn are two different universities.

Borg · Post by **Borg** » Sat Dec 29, 2012 5:33 pm

Br3v wrote:
Borg wrote:
Br3v wrote:Penn =/= penn state.
I don't get what you're trying to say.
Penn state and UPenn are two different universities.

I don't think so man, I think it's just that they have different names for different purposes. Like how the Berkeley logo is different from the Cal one they use for sports even though they are the same school.

igo2northwestern · Post by **igo2northwestern** » Sat Dec 29, 2012 5:34 pm

FlightoftheEarls wrote: NLJ may be a good way to determine placement, but it is a pretty terrible way to determine placement ability. The only thing that matters is how deep into a law school class a firm will go, and none of that data for Penn suggests that it has any distinct advantage over MVPDN.

Here's a thread that lays out I'm talking about: http://top-law-schools.com/forums/viewt ... 8&start=25

TripTrip · Post by **TripTrip** » Sat Dec 29, 2012 5:51 pm

Borg wrote:
Br3v wrote:Penn state and UPenn are two different universities.
I don't think so man, I think it's just that they have different names for different purposes. Like how the Berkeley logo is different from the Cal one they use for sports even though they are the same school.

Yeah, and two different law schools! http://law.psu.edu/ https://www.law.upenn.edu/

Borg · Post by **Borg** » Sat Dec 29, 2012 5:58 pm

TripTrip wrote:
Borg wrote:
Br3v wrote:Penn state and UPenn are two different universities.
I don't think so man, I think it's just that they have different names for different purposes. Like how the Berkeley logo is different from the Cal one they use for sports even though they are the same school.
Yeah, and two different law schools! http://law.psu.edu/ https://www.law.upenn.edu/

Haha good one guys. Anyway, whatever I'm sure that for most people the whole scandal is a memory and it won't even matter in five years for the school. I just care because it was such a big deal and I worry about how people would perceive it at first glance on a resume.

TripTrip · Post by **TripTrip** » Sat Dec 29, 2012 6:08 pm

Borg wrote:Haha good one guys. Anyway, whatever I'm sure that for most people the whole scandal is a memory and it won't even matter in five years for the school. I just care because it was such a big deal and I worry about how people would perceive it at first glance on a resume.

So you won't go to any school with Pennsylvania in the name?

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