Creighton v Loyola New Orleans

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embreen
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Creighton v Loyola New Orleans

Postby embreen » Thu Dec 20, 2012 3:22 pm

ive been accepted to both, creighton wants to give me 14,000 on 32,000 and loyola wants to give me 25,000 on about the same tuition. since im paying completely out of loans this is obviously a factor, however my husband is being deployed during my first year and since we know the nebraska area that creighton is in, that makes it more favorable to me. im unsure on which is considered "the better" school. creighton was my first choice before loyola gave me this scholarship. ive also applied and been accepted with half scholarships to touro and drake, however they are not really in the running. any suggestions on how to make this decision?

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Rahviveh
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Re: Creighton v Loyola New Orleans

Postby Rahviveh » Thu Dec 20, 2012 3:29 pm

embreen wrote:ive been accepted to both, creighton wants to give me 14,000 on 32,000 and loyola wants to give me 25,000 on about the same tuition. since im paying completely out of loans this is obviously a factor, however my husband is being deployed during my first year and since we know the nebraska area that creighton is in, that makes it more favorable to me. im unsure on which is considered "the better" school. creighton was my first choice before loyola gave me this scholarship. ive also applied and been accepted with half scholarships to touro and drake, however they are not really in the running. any suggestions on how to make this decision?


Creighton since it sounds like you're from Nebraska. Don't go to Loyola.

But that's a lot of money for a terrible school (still around ~150k COA after the scholly). What about U of Nebraska?

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IAFG
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Re: Creighton v Loyola New Orleans

Postby IAFG » Thu Dec 20, 2012 3:40 pm

re-take for full ride.

timbs4339
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Re: Creighton v Loyola New Orleans

Postby timbs4339 » Thu Dec 20, 2012 3:43 pm

Negotiate.

embreen
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Re: Creighton v Loyola New Orleans

Postby embreen » Thu Dec 20, 2012 3:45 pm

im actually from ny, so the tuition is about the same since im an out of state resident. i know the area from my husband being in the navy and stationed in omaha. im not worried about cost of living in any area since his housing allowance from the navy will take care of that. im still waiting on responses from case western, saint johns, wake forest, catholic and u of miami. im not looking to go to the highest and "best" law school since alot of what goes into those rankings is very subjective, im looking to go to a small school where i can get a decent legal education and not pay out the ass for the rest of my life.

embreen
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Re: Creighton v Loyola New Orleans

Postby embreen » Thu Dec 20, 2012 3:46 pm

also i have a 158 and 3.6 if that makes any difference

timbs4339
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Re: Creighton v Loyola New Orleans

Postby timbs4339 » Thu Dec 20, 2012 3:48 pm

embreen wrote:im actually from ny, so the tuition is about the same since im an out of state resident. i know the area from my husband being in the navy and stationed in omaha. im not worried about cost of living in any area since his housing allowance from the navy will take care of that. im still waiting on responses from case western, saint johns, wake forest, catholic and u of miami. im not looking to go to the highest and "best" law school since alot of what goes into those rankings is very subjective, im looking to go to a small school where i can get a decent legal education and not pay out the ass for the rest of my life.


Every law school gives you substantially the same "legal education"- which is pretty much worthless for all except three or four extremely specific lawyer jobs. What matters is how many of their graduates are getting FT lawyer jobs and what the debt load is. What do you want to do with your degree?

embreen
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Re: Creighton v Loyola New Orleans

Postby embreen » Thu Dec 20, 2012 3:51 pm

timbs4339 wrote:
embreen wrote:im actually from ny, so the tuition is about the same since im an out of state resident. i know the area from my husband being in the navy and stationed in omaha. im not worried about cost of living in any area since his housing allowance from the navy will take care of that. im still waiting on responses from case western, saint johns, wake forest, catholic and u of miami. im not looking to go to the highest and "best" law school since alot of what goes into those rankings is very subjective, im looking to go to a small school where i can get a decent legal education and not pay out the ass for the rest of my life.


Every law school gives you substantially the same "legal education"- which is pretty much worthless for all except three or four extremely specific lawyer jobs. What matters is how many of their graduates are getting FT lawyer jobs and what the debt load is. What do you want to do with your degree?



thats almost exactly how i feel, i would like to work as a d.a, im currently interning for domestic violence d.a's in queens, ny and love it. im not sure where im going to end up since my husband may be stationed somewhere else upon my graduation

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Rahviveh
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Re: Creighton v Loyola New Orleans

Postby Rahviveh » Thu Dec 20, 2012 4:03 pm

embreen wrote:im actually from ny, so the tuition is about the same since im an out of state resident. i know the area from my husband being in the navy and stationed in omaha. im not worried about cost of living in any area since his housing allowance from the navy will take care of that. im still waiting on responses from case western, saint johns, wake forest, catholic and u of miami. im not looking to go to the highest and "best" law school since alot of what goes into those rankings is very subjective, im looking to go to a small school where i can get a decent legal education and not pay out the ass for the rest of my life.


Have you thought about retaking the LSAT? A few more points will get you full rides at these schools

timbs4339
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Re: Creighton v Loyola New Orleans

Postby timbs4339 » Thu Dec 20, 2012 4:05 pm

embreen wrote:
timbs4339 wrote:
embreen wrote:im actually from ny, so the tuition is about the same since im an out of state resident. i know the area from my husband being in the navy and stationed in omaha. im not worried about cost of living in any area since his housing allowance from the navy will take care of that. im still waiting on responses from case western, saint johns, wake forest, catholic and u of miami. im not looking to go to the highest and "best" law school since alot of what goes into those rankings is very subjective, im looking to go to a small school where i can get a decent legal education and not pay out the ass for the rest of my life.


Every law school gives you substantially the same "legal education"- which is pretty much worthless for all except three or four extremely specific lawyer jobs. What matters is how many of their graduates are getting FT lawyer jobs and what the debt load is. What do you want to do with your degree?



thats almost exactly how i feel, i would like to work as a d.a, im currently interning for domestic violence d.a's in queens, ny and love it. im not sure where im going to end up since my husband may be stationed somewhere else upon my graduation


What I can say right now is that 1) keeping your debt low as possible is important if you are shooting for a DA job because you might very well strike out and have to take low paying private sector work, 2) the schools you have listed are very regional, and while some may have especially good relationships with the local DA's office, they are not going to have much pull with a DA office in another city. You might want to hold off until you know where you are going to be permanently.

embreen
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Re: Creighton v Loyola New Orleans

Postby embreen » Thu Dec 20, 2012 4:15 pm

timbs4339 wrote:
embreen wrote:
timbs4339 wrote:
embreen wrote:im actually from ny, so the tuition is about the same since im an out of state resident. i know the area from my husband being in the navy and stationed in omaha. im not worried about cost of living in any area since his housing allowance from the navy will take care of that. im still waiting on responses from case western, saint johns, wake forest, catholic and u of miami. im not looking to go to the highest and "best" law school since alot of what goes into those rankings is very subjective, im looking to go to a small school where i can get a decent legal education and not pay out the ass for the rest of my life.


Every law school gives you substantially the same "legal education"- which is pretty much worthless for all except three or four extremely specific lawyer jobs. What matters is how many of their graduates are getting FT lawyer jobs and what the debt load is. What do you want to do with your degree?



thats almost exactly how i feel, i would like to work as a d.a, im currently interning for domestic violence d.a's in queens, ny and love it. im not sure where im going to end up since my husband may be stationed somewhere else upon my graduation


What I can say right now is that 1) keeping your debt low as possible is important if you are shooting for a DA job because you might very well strike out and have to take low paying private sector work, 2) the schools you have listed are very regional, and while some may have especially good relationships with the local DA's office, they are not going to have much pull with a DA office in another city. You might want to hold off until you know where you are going to be permanently.


Thats half the problem is there is no permanently in the military. We could spend 10 years in one place then move or spend as little as one year in one place and then move, i do realize that a law career is going to be difficult but its my passion and what i want to do so i have to at least try to make it work

timbs4339
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Re: Creighton v Loyola New Orleans

Postby timbs4339 » Thu Dec 20, 2012 4:26 pm

embreen wrote:Thats half the problem is there is no permanently in the military. We could spend 10 years in one place then move or spend as little as one year in one place and then move, i do realize that a law career is going to be difficult but its my passion and what i want to do so i have to at least try to make it work


Another issue is that in order to be a DA you need to be barred in the state you are practicing in. You can go to school in NYC and then take the Oklahoma bar, but if you then practice as a DA for two years in Oklahoma you'd have to take, say, FL if you happened to move to Florida. Except at the highest levels, law isn't a career for the geographically mobile. Have you considered being a career paralegal?

But you seem to have a good head on your shoulders and are aware of the downside. So what I would do is wait for your acceptances then do some heavy negotiating. If you can get the debt down to 20-30K TOTAL or so, with low stipulations, then I'd go to that school.

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IAFG
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Re: Creighton v Loyola New Orleans

Postby IAFG » Thu Dec 20, 2012 4:32 pm

I can't think of anyone who needs a highly-ranked "national" school more. How long did you spend studying for the LSAT?

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jenesaislaw
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Re: Creighton v Loyola New Orleans

Postby jenesaislaw » Sat Dec 22, 2012 12:59 am

This is such a difficult situation. If you haven't already, you should try to find a career military person whose spouse is a lawyer to see firsthand about the challenges s/he faced as a military spouse-lawyer.

Generally, however, I'd be really nervous about taking on too much debt for a degree you don't know whether you can use. Law schools, especially at the prestige-level you're considering, are local beings. Hard to see how your prospective life will mesh with that + the bar admission issues.

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deadpanic
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Re: Creighton v Loyola New Orleans

Postby deadpanic » Mon Dec 24, 2012 6:26 pm

If you are at the mercy of always moving because of the military then law (other than paralegal) is simply not feasible.

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romothesavior
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Re: Creighton v Loyola New Orleans

Postby romothesavior » Tue Dec 25, 2012 1:46 am

deadpanic wrote:If you are at the mercy of always moving because of the military then law (other than paralegal) is simply not feasible.

+1. OP, I really see no way for you to make things work as a traditional lawyer. At the end of three years, you'll be a heavily indebted graduate of a very regional law school who is at the mercy of moving pretty much anywhere at a moment's notice. Maybe there are other avenues to explore with a law degree, and I agree with whoever said it above: you should talk to a military-spouse lawyer.

But even if you could make it work, you should retake for better schools and more money. Neither one of these schools has good employment prospects, and they're not worth the debt.

TooOld4This
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Re: Creighton v Loyola New Orleans

Postby TooOld4This » Tue Dec 25, 2012 11:39 am

OP, you need to retake the LSAT and score much higher for you goals to have any realistic chance of becoming a reality. If you know you are going to move around a lot, you need to go to a law school that has a national reputation. None of the schools you listed do. You also need to minimize your debt. Both of these things can be done with a much better LSAT score.

Think of it this way, a prerequisite for practicing is passing the bar. For you, your goals, and your need to be geographically flexible, the LSAT score you have now is the equivalent of not passing the bar. Yes, many schools will gladly take your money and three years of your life, but at the end of the day none of these schools will give you what you need to actually succeed.

It is possible to move around as an attorney. But having the right resume is important. What school you went to is one of the easiest ways to cut a stack of resumes into a manageable pile. It's pretty rare to need to look at candidates beyond those that went to a given employer's go to schools in order to find a qualified candidate.

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romothesavior
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Re: Creighton v Loyola New Orleans

Postby romothesavior » Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:03 pm

TooOld4This wrote:It is possible to move around as an attorney.

I'll defer to you if you know more about this than I do, but I've always thought law to be a less flexible field for moving than most careers. Some moving around is normal, sure, but the possibility of having to move multiple times in just a few years, especially with the lack of control over your move, seems like it would really inhibit any upward career movement. How are you supposed to develop clients and establish your practice if you have to constantly uproot yourself?

TooOld4This
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Re: Creighton v Loyola New Orleans

Postby TooOld4This » Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:58 pm

romothesavior wrote:
TooOld4This wrote:It is possible to move around as an attorney.

I'll defer to you if you know more about this than I do, but I've always thought law to be a less flexible field for moving than most careers. Some moving around is normal, sure, but the possibility of having to move multiple times in just a few years, especially with the lack of control over your move, seems like it would really inhibit any upward career movement. How are you supposed to develop clients and establish your practice if you have to constantly uproot yourself?


I have jumped around a lot. Yearly moves would be very difficult on a regular basis. It sounds like OP will get stretches of time at least some of the time, though. It also doesn't sound like OP is looking at private practice, which also helps. Depending on the economy and practice area, you can usually make one or two jumps in private practice. In house or government are easier to jump around in. The big thing is to have a solid base (ie school/grades/first job). If you can lay that foundation and then look for jobs that will develop skill sets, you can be fairly mobile and still have a successful career. If you miss that first piece, though, you are going to have and extremely hard time.




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