UT versus Bama?

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )
User avatar
Keef
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2012 11:59 am

UT versus Bama?

Postby Keef » Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:53 am

Quick question for you guys.

I've been admitted to Texas (my dream school) and Alabama. At Texas I have instate tuition, at Alabama I have a full ride. Further background: I retook the LSAT in december to try and bump it up a few points to get money at Texas. Obviously I'll know more in a few weeks, but I though I did relatively the same as last time (166). If my December Lsat score isn't improved, I'm going to try to negotiate a few dollars from Texas with Alabama full ride. I don't hold out a ton of hope for this, but its a weak cycle and they may need the instate kids so who knows.

The pertinent factors:

I'll be roughly 135K in debt at Texas and around 38K at Alabama.

I'm married and a serious family man and I don't really have a desire to work for biglaw. My wife and kids are number one and I'm very concerned about shackling myself with debt and having to work a shitty job I'll hate. I've been told that there are jobs available to Texas Law grads that pay 120K or so and are really quite manageable. I'd be fine with that.

I've also grown up a huge UT fan. Like been going to games since I was 2 huge UT fan. It was a dream come true to get the call. Austin is incredible. So that counts for something.

I like Texas and the southeast equally. However, it has been discussed that once loans have been paid off, our family may consider moving out west to Wyoming to be near family. This is far from certain, and I dont want to risk Wyoming Law over it. All things considered, I'd be perfectly happy in either Alabama or Texas.

There are also the job opportunities. Texas will simply have superior ones. They also have a much more portable degree and name if we do end up wanting to leave. However, assuming things bottom out (*obviously I intended to put 150% into LS to get the best grades I can) and I end up in the bottom third, I'm going to be saddled with a fair amount of debt at Texas. At Alabama this wouldn't be an issue. Although the job opportunities are lesser, the security is higher.

In short, is Texas worth the extra 100K in my circumstance? Again, I'm not super interested in Big Law. I might be with a very family friendly firm, but I don't want to bank on that job just falling into my lap.

Thanks again.

User avatar
jenesaislaw
Posts: 996
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 6:35 pm

Re: UT versus Bama?

Postby jenesaislaw » Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:02 am

If you go to Bama, will you be moving your family there and willing to be in the state for the short (and perhaps medium) term? From what I see, having your family there will go a long ways to proving you're there to stay.

That is a lot of debt for Texas (btw, did you include interest accrued before first payment?), especially if you have little to no interest in biglaw. I have a lot of friends in Texas biglaw and, while not NY or DC-bad, it's still a life suck.

Also: http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=texas and http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=alabama

User avatar
Keef
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2012 11:59 am

Re: UT versus Bama?

Postby Keef » Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:08 am

jenesaislaw wrote:If you go to Bama, will you be moving your family there and willing to be in the state for the short (and perhaps medium) term? From what I see, having your family there will go a long ways to proving you're there to stay.

That is a lot of debt for Texas (btw, did you include interest accrued before first payment?), especially if you have little to no interest in biglaw. I have a lot of friends in Texas biglaw and, while not NY or DC-bad, it's still a life suck.

Also: http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=texas and http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=alabama

Trust me, those have been poured over. Family will be there, wife will be working some, but we're still anticipating needing COL.
Last edited by Keef on Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
fathergoose
Posts: 853
Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2009 3:36 pm

Re: UT versus Bama?

Postby fathergoose » Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:11 am

Go to Texas. Texas has access to a number of markets. Alabama has access to...

If you are looking for the mythical mid-law then going to Alabama is not the prudent choice. Texas will give you a decent shot at a good job presuming you make average grades and network your butt off.

User avatar
philosoraptor
Posts: 708
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 2:49 am

Re: UT versus Bama?

Postby philosoraptor » Tue Dec 18, 2012 2:44 am

What are these magical $120K jobs that don't require biglaw hours? Don't think of legal hiring as being on a sliding scale with long hours/market pay on one end and family time/lower pay on the other. That's not how it works. Chances are you'll either work in a private firm, where the hours will be brutal and the pay will be either really high or really low, or work in the government or public interest, where the hours will be either regular or brutal and the pay will be peanuts.

Why are you going to law school? What do you want to do? ("Not biglaw" is not a good answer.)

dixiecupdrinking
Posts: 3142
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2008 2:39 pm

Re: UT versus Bama?

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Tue Dec 18, 2012 9:51 am

So you don't want to work in BigLaw. What do you want to do? Other than "make $120,000 and have an easy schedule." You're going to need to be more specific because we'd all like that, but that is not your likely outcome here.

Edit: Yeah what philosoraptor said.

BigZuck
Posts: 10884
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2012 9:53 am

Re: UT versus Bama?

Postby BigZuck » Tue Dec 18, 2012 10:18 am

How are you graduating with that little debt from these schools, especially considering there are multiple mouths to feed? I think you're looking at at least 150K plus interest at UT and 45K plus interest at Alabama.

Also agreed that you won't get 120K midlaw with resonable hours, especially not right out of the gate. If you want to be a lawyer I vote Texas. If you want to be a family man I vote don't go to law school at all.

Gooses
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:02 pm

Re: UT versus Bama?

Postby Gooses » Tue Dec 18, 2012 10:19 am

philosoraptor wrote: That's not how it works.

User avatar
Keef
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2012 11:59 am

Re: UT versus Bama?

Postby Keef » Tue Dec 18, 2012 10:21 am

BigZuck wrote:How are you graduating with that little debt from these schools, especially considering there are multiple mouths to feed? I think you're looking at at least 150K plus interest at UT and 45K plus interest at Alabama.

Also agreed that you won't get 120K midlaw with resonable hours, especially not right out of the gate. If you want to be a lawyer I vote Texas. If you want to be a family man I vote don't go to law school at all.

I'm sorry I should have clarified. IP Law. And I don't mind working 60-70 hour weeks, but it would definitely be a concern if it was more than that consistently.

User avatar
cahwc12
Posts: 941
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2012 4:49 pm

Re: UT versus Bama?

Postby cahwc12 » Tue Dec 18, 2012 10:57 am

Keef wrote:I'm married and a serious family man and I don't really have a desire to work for biglaw. My wife and kids are number one and I'm very concerned about shackling myself with debt and having to work a shitty job I'll hate.


Keef wrote:What would you guys recommend for housing? I'd like to save as much money possible and I'd also be interested in finding roommates. Does UT hook you up with ways to find roommates or are you kind of on your own?

link

In this thread you mention uprooting your family to Alabama or Texas. Why are you looking for roommates in the other thread? Do you not plan to live with your family if you go to Texas, but would live with your family if you go to Alabama?

Also, what is/are your degree(s) in? The mention of IP changes the entire picture.

User avatar
Keef
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2012 11:59 am

Re: UT versus Bama?

Postby Keef » Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:03 am

cahwc12 wrote:
Keef wrote:I'm married and a serious family man and I don't really have a desire to work for biglaw. My wife and kids are number one and I'm very concerned about shackling myself with debt and having to work a shitty job I'll hate.


Keef wrote:What would you guys recommend for housing? I'd like to save as much money possible and I'd also be interested in finding roommates. Does UT hook you up with ways to find roommates or are you kind of on your own?

link

In this thread you mention uprooting your family to Alabama or Texas. Why are you looking for roommates in the other thread? Do you not plan to live with your family if you go to Texas, but would live with your family if you go to Alabama?

Also, what is/are your degree(s) in? The mention of IP changes the entire picture.

Mechanical engineering. My wife has one more year of grad school in Dallas. They'd live with family for year one then move to whatever location year two.

User avatar
jenesaislaw
Posts: 996
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 6:35 pm

Re: UT versus Bama?

Postby jenesaislaw » Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:16 am

BigZuck wrote:If you want to be a lawyer I vote Texas.


Based on what?

BigZuck
Posts: 10884
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2012 9:53 am

Re: UT versus Bama?

Postby BigZuck » Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:20 am

jenesaislaw wrote:
BigZuck wrote:If you want to be a lawyer I vote Texas.


Based on what?


Based on this one website that says UT grads have more desirable employment outcomes than Alabama grads. It's call law school transparency, you should check it out.

Also sounds like the OP is from Texas.

User avatar
Ruxin1
Posts: 1284
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 3:12 pm

Re: UT versus Bama?

Postby Ruxin1 » Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:39 am

BigZuck wrote:
jenesaislaw wrote:
BigZuck wrote:If you want to be a lawyer I vote Texas.


Based on what?


Based on this one website that says UT grads have more desirable employment outcomes than Alabama grads. It's call law school transparency, you should check it out.

Also sounds like the OP is from Texas.


LOL sounds like jenesaislaw knows NOTHING about LST :roll: lololol

User avatar
StylinNProfilin
Posts: 405
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:27 pm

Re: UT versus Bama?

Postby StylinNProfilin » Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:43 am

BigZuck wrote:
jenesaislaw wrote:
BigZuck wrote:If you want to be a lawyer I vote Texas.


Based on what?


Based on this one website that says UT grads have more desirable employment outcomes than Alabama grads. It's call law school transparency, you should check it out.

Also sounds like the OP is from Texas.


I lol'd

I'd vote Texas (I'm a biased diehard Longhorn too). Normally I'd say this is a no brainer, employment prospects are far greater and you have ties to Texas to boot. However the whole IP thing makes this a much tougher decision.

BigZuck
Posts: 10884
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2012 9:53 am

Re: UT versus Bama?

Postby BigZuck » Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:44 am

All snark aside, now that OP says IP I think it's got to be Texas if he's choosing between these two. Wouldn't there be many more opportunities for IP in Texas versus Alabama?

User avatar
Ruxin1
Posts: 1284
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 3:12 pm

Re: UT versus Bama?

Postby Ruxin1 » Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:47 am

BigZuck wrote:All snark aside, now that OP says IP I think it's got to be Texas if he's choosing between these two. Wouldn't there be many more opportunities for IP in Texas versus Alabama?


Instead of being all snarky I think you should explain law school transparency and all the good it is doing to jennaseilaw lollolol

User avatar
philosoraptor
Posts: 708
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 2:49 am

Re: UT versus Bama?

Postby philosoraptor » Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:05 pm

BigZuck wrote:All snark aside, now that OP says IP I think it's got to be Texas if he's choosing between these two. Wouldn't there be many more opportunities for IP in Texas versus Alabama?
This. OP, if you want IP, you're looking at biglaw and not a whole lot else. Your opportunities will be significantly better than those of most of your classmates, especially in the coveted Austin market, but recognize that they will be within a limited band of big firms. It may mean a lot of hours, but you will be doing right by your family to make a good living and pay back your loans.

FWIW, I came to Texas thinking government all the way, but now that I have experienced both government and a big firm, I'm way more excited about the latter. Try working in two different summer settings if you can, and keep an open mind. Obviously your family is the most important consideration, but making $160K will be good for them, too.

BigZuck
Posts: 10884
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2012 9:53 am

Re: UT versus Bama?

Postby BigZuck » Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:10 pm

Ruxin1 wrote:
BigZuck wrote:All snark aside, now that OP says IP I think it's got to be Texas if he's choosing between these two. Wouldn't there be many more opportunities for IP in Texas versus Alabama?


Instead of being all snarky I think you should explain law school transparency and all the good it is doing to jennaseilaw lollolol


Look brobro, he asked why I think it's better to go to Texas if he wants to be a lawyer, I said it's because his own website says Texas has better employment outcomes. It sounds like the OP wants the mythical midlaw and/or boutique IP firm, Texas gives him a much better shot at that. Even if it's very slim, the chances are probably none at Alabama. I'm guessing he asked me why because Alabama would be a lot cheaper and has an ever so slightly higher employment score but I'm assuming that the OP does not want Alabama small law which is what he would get as a Texan who missed out on that 20% that ends up in big firms or clerkships.

Now do you have anything to add or are you just going to continue lolloling all over this thread?

User avatar
Ruxin1
Posts: 1284
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 3:12 pm

Re: UT versus Bama?

Postby Ruxin1 » Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:27 pm

BigZuck wrote:
Ruxin1 wrote:
BigZuck wrote:All snark aside, now that OP says IP I think it's got to be Texas if he's choosing between these two. Wouldn't there be many more opportunities for IP in Texas versus Alabama?


Instead of being all snarky I think you should explain law school transparency and all the good it is doing to jennaseilaw lollolol


Look brobro, he asked why I think it's better to go to Texas if he wants to be a lawyer, I said it's because his own website says Texas has better employment outcomes. It sounds like the OP wants the mythical midlaw and/or boutique IP firm, Texas gives him a much better shot at that. Even if it's very slim, the chances are probably none at Alabama. I'm guessing he asked me why because Alabama would be a lot cheaper and has an ever so slightly higher employment score but I'm assuming that the OP does not want Alabama small law which is what he would get as a Texan who missed out on that 20% that ends up in big firms or clerkships.

Now do you have anything to add or are you just going to continue lolloling all over this thread?


Just wanted you to be more specific that's all, you give good advice on this board. Take it easy when someone is busting your balls when you made it seem like you didn't know it was the guys site .

User avatar
BmoreOrLess
Posts: 2085
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2012 10:15 pm

Re: UT versus Bama?

Postby BmoreOrLess » Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:54 pm

At the Alabama ASW last year they said they have grads in every state except Wyoming, so if anyone wanted to go there they would love to help. LOL.
Last edited by BmoreOrLess on Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

andythefir
Posts: 398
Joined: Mon Jul 05, 2010 1:56 am

Re: UT versus Bama?

Postby andythefir » Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:10 pm

No one has brought up the problem of ties to AL or eventually getting to WY: the south is very insular and being from TX will help but will still make it an uphill battle to convince the south (where 'Bama will open doors) that a TX native wants to stay.
Next, UT will get you anywhere you want to go, especially in the west. 'Bama will not. If TX/WY is your big picture goal 'Bama makes no sense. Also, look into UT's LRAP if the debt is your concern.

User avatar
jenesaislaw
Posts: 996
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 6:35 pm

Re: UT versus Bama?

Postby jenesaislaw » Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:44 pm

Zuck, it's based on the data on LST that I question whether UT makes sense over Bama. A higher percentage were practicing law at 9 months at UT than Bama (unlike what you claimed), though UT does substantially better at large firms, wherever you want to make the cutoff. If UT's main advantage over Bama is in a job that OP does not want..well, you can fill in the rest.

UT has a great reputation in Texas and a very good reputation around the country. Bama's reputation is pretty damn good too in the south. When there's over $100,000 of cost difference, and Bama can help him achieve what he wants, then I don't see why he wouldn't go to Bama.

User avatar
jenesaislaw
Posts: 996
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 6:35 pm

Re: UT versus Bama?

Postby jenesaislaw » Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:45 pm

andythefir wrote:No one has brought up the problem of ties to AL or eventually getting to WY: the south is very insular and being from TX will help but will still make it an uphill battle to convince the south (where 'Bama will open doors) that a TX native wants to stay.


It was addressed early on. He said he would be moving his family there. That makes a very big difference.

BigZuck
Posts: 10884
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2012 9:53 am

Re: UT versus Bama?

Postby BigZuck » Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:55 pm

jenesaislaw wrote:Zuck, it's based on the data on LST that I question whether UT makes sense over Bama. A higher percentage were practicing law at 9 months at UT than Bama (unlike what you claimed), though UT does substantially better at large firms, wherever you want to make the cutoff. If UT's main advantage over Bama is in a job that OP does not want..well, you can fill in the rest.

UT has a great reputation in Texas and a very good reputation around the country. Bama's reputation is pretty damn good too in the south. When there's over $100,000 of cost difference, and Bama can help him achieve what he wants, then I don't see why he wouldn't go to Bama.


I said: "I'm guessing he asked me why because Alabama would be a lot cheaper and has an ever so slightly higher employment score."

Bama: 71.3
UT: 68.1

68.1>71.3?????




Return to “Choosing a Law School”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 3 guests