NYU v UVA (WITH Money)

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lawschoolboundfuture
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NYU v UVA (WITH Money)

Postby lawschoolboundfuture » Fri Dec 14, 2012 1:22 pm

I was just wondering how NYU compares to UVA. Obviously NYU is a betters school with a better rank, but I was wondering how big this gap actually is. I got about a half scholarship to UVA and will likely get no money from NYU. I'm interested in environmental law.

FloridaCoastalorbust
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Re: NYU v UVA (WITH Money)

Postby FloridaCoastalorbust » Fri Dec 14, 2012 1:40 pm

google.

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John Milton
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Re: NYU v UVA (WITH Money)

Postby John Milton » Fri Dec 14, 2012 1:49 pm

Both are great schools with solid employment statistics, I think part of it comes down to where(geographically) you hope to end up.

If you're comparing them rankings wise you pretty much answered your own question.

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandr ... w-rankings
There are the Environmental Law rankings by US News; take them with a grain of salt. In general don't focus on specialization rankings because they rarely mean anything. NYU or UVA would put you on a much better path to Environmental (or any other field of) Law than Vermont.

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Nickg415
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Re: NYU v UVA (WITH Money)

Postby Nickg415 » Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:37 pm

Could be helpful to put up a Poll. I'd take UVA at half tuition. Comparable employment prospects but half the cost seems like something I wouldn't regret where as I might question my decision at NYU when I graduate with over 100,000$ in debt. But again there are other factors that could tip the scale towards NYU, mainly where you want to practice.

Cellar-door
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Re: NYU v UVA (WITH Money)

Postby Cellar-door » Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:01 pm

Keep in mind that you'll probably save more than just the half tuition as well since the COL is lower in Charlottesville than NYC.

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dirtrida2
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Re: NYU v UVA (WITH Money)

Postby dirtrida2 » Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:03 pm

Cellar-door wrote:Keep in mind that you'll probably save more than just the half tuition as well since the COL is lower in Charlottesville than NYC.



May not pertain to you, but I dislike the city - I would find myself much happier in Virginia.

+1 living environment.

CanadianWolf
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Re: NYU v UVA (WITH Money)

Postby CanadianWolf » Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:06 pm

Calculate the total COA for each option.

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Justin Genious
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Re: NYU v UVA (WITH Money)

Postby Justin Genious » Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:59 am

NYU.

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domori
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Re: NYU v UVA (WITH Money)

Postby domori » Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:35 am

I think it totally depends on your financial situation - personally, I'll be paying for law school myself, so I'd pick UVA with $$ if I had the choice.
Last edited by domori on Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:42 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Grazzhoppa
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Re: NYU v UVA (WITH Money)

Postby Grazzhoppa » Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:37 am

UVA

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Br3v
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Re: NYU v UVA (WITH Money)

Postby Br3v » Sat Dec 15, 2012 3:01 am

If all you want is biglaw, UVA easy choice due to it being half the cost just subsidizing your debt in the event you strike out.

law2015
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Re: NYU v UVA (WITH Money)

Postby law2015 » Sat Dec 15, 2012 3:05 am

deleted

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JamMasterJ
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Re: NYU v UVA (WITH Money)

Postby JamMasterJ » Sat Dec 15, 2012 3:19 am

What and where do you think you want to practice and what's the price difference.

Paul Campos
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Re: NYU v UVA (WITH Money)

Postby Paul Campos » Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:58 pm

Total debt at repayment from NYU, assuming debt-financed sticker and 3.5% annual increase in COA: $290,118*

We're approaching a point where these numbers are so absurd it almost doesn't matter what they are. How many people out of NYU are going to

(a) Get BigLaw

(b) Keep it long enough to pay off all or even a solid majority of that kind of debt?

*This doesn't include the $15K you might be able to save if you get a market-paying SA. OTOH it also doesn't include the nine months of living expenses you'll incur between enrollment and the bar exam when you're not in school.

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20130312
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Re: NYU v UVA (WITH Money)

Postby 20130312 » Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:01 pm

Paul Campos wrote:Total debt at repayment from NYU, assuming debt-financed sticker and 3.5% annual increase in COA: $290,118*

We're approaching a point where these numbers are so absurd it almost doesn't matter what they are. How many people out of NYU are going to

(a) Get BigLaw

(b) Keep it long enough to pay off all or even a solid majority of that kind of debt?

*This doesn't include the $15K you might be able to save if you get a market-paying SA. OTOH it also doesn't include the nine months of living expenses you'll incur between enrollment and the bar exam when you're not in school.

You, sir, are a valuable member of our on-topic forums.

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Doorkeeper
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Re: NYU v UVA (WITH Money)

Postby Doorkeeper » Sat Dec 15, 2012 4:31 pm

UVA if you're paying the bill.

Also, don't make up your mind until you hear from NYU. They throw scholarships around like it's candy and they're amendable to negotiations. You can use that half scholarship to get some money out of NYU.

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JamMasterJ
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Re: NYU v UVA (WITH Money)

Postby JamMasterJ » Sat Dec 15, 2012 11:46 pm

Doorkeeper wrote:UVA if you're paying the bill.

Also, don't make up your mind until you hear from NYU. They throw scholarships around like it's candy and they're amendable to negotiations. You can use that half scholarship to get some money out of NYU.

yeah, an ED friend of mine negotiated for money

EdgarWinter
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Re: NYU v UVA (WITH Money)

Postby EdgarWinter » Sun Dec 16, 2012 12:37 pm

.
Last edited by EdgarWinter on Thu Mar 28, 2013 11:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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JamMasterJ
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Re: NYU v UVA (WITH Money)

Postby JamMasterJ » Sun Dec 16, 2012 3:13 pm

EdgarWinter wrote:UVA; it's not even close. You're talking about almost a $100k cost difference when you factor in NYU's absurd col. Unless you get scholly money. Even then I'd be wary.

OTOH, we're more recesseion-proof and at the level you'll be paying at either school, LRAP matters a lot. You're not paying that shit off non-biglaw either way w/o leap

gaucholaw
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Re: NYU v UVA (WITH Money)

Postby gaucholaw » Sun Dec 16, 2012 4:36 pm

" Obviously NYU is a betters school with a better rank, but I was wondering how big this gap actually is."

^^^ This is the TLS USNEWS whoring that pisses the hell out of me.... "omg... number 6 school is OBVIOUSLY better than 7 ranked school" lets even pretend for a second that UVA wasn't offering you a scholly.... should it still be an obvious decision? how about quality of life? How about a school that's actually going to give you a PASSION for the law instead of just your J.D.

I don't mean to target you personally.... but this needs to be mentioned... 8) Just sayin'

it could be perfectly rational to want to go to NYU over UVA all things equal.... but the 1 ranking difference shouldn't be what makes the difference.... and no, NYU isn't OBVIOUSLY better

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20130312
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Re: NYU v UVA (WITH Money)

Postby 20130312 » Sun Dec 16, 2012 4:39 pm

gaucholaw wrote:" Obviously NYU is a betters school with a better rank, but I was wondering how big this gap actually is."

^^^ This is the TLS USNEWS whoring that pisses the hell out of me.... "omg... number 6 school is OBVIOUSLY better than 7 ranked school" lets even pretend for a second that UVA wasn't offering you a scholly.... should it still be an obvious decision? how about quality of life? How about a school that's actually going to give you a PASSION for the law instead of just your J.D.

I don't mean to target you personally.... but this needs to be mentioned... 8) Just sayin'

it could be perfectly rational to want to go to NYU over UVA all things equal.... but the 1 ranking difference shouldn't be what makes the difference.... and no, NYU isn't OBVIOUSLY better

Employment stats disagree broheim.

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BruceWayne
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Re: NYU v UVA (WITH Money)

Postby BruceWayne » Sun Dec 16, 2012 4:51 pm

InGoodFaith wrote:Employment stats disagree broheim.


Lol sounds like you've been reading those autoadmit TLS "verified" employment stats. The real one's (i.e. the nlj) show both of the schools as doing pretty mediocre. Something like 39% at UVA getting firm jobs and 41% of NYU.

NYU isn't really different from the top 14 schools ranked below it except that it's rep in NYC(it's home market) is stronger so it places better there. It places the same or worse in other markets and the same for non biglaw jobs. Basically all things being equal if you are trying to go NYC go NYU. But here all things aren't equal. The bump you will get for NYC firm jobs is not even close to worth taking NYU sticker over UVA half scholly. Mainly because the bump NYU gives is more at the most prestigious NYC firms, where, if you end up below median at either school you're assed out. However, if you end up in the top half of NYU you will have a much better shot at landing Skadden, Weil, Davis Polk etc. than if you land top half at UVA. You have to sit back and think if that's worth the extra money to you.
Last edited by BruceWayne on Sun Dec 16, 2012 7:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

igo2northwestern
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Re: NYU v UVA (WITH Money)

Postby igo2northwestern » Sun Dec 16, 2012 6:01 pm

BruceWayne wrote:The real one's (i.e. the nlj) show both of the schools as doing pretty mediocre. Something like 39% at UVA getting firm jobs and 41% of NYU.

[NYU] places the same or worse in other markets and the same for non biglaw jobs. Basically all things being equal if you are trying to go NYC go NYU. But here all things aren't equal. The bump you will get for NYC firm jobs is not even close to worth taking NYU sticker over UVA half scholly. Mainly because the bump NYU gives is more at the most prestigious NYC firms, where, if you end up below median at either school you're assed out. However, if you end up in the top half of NYU you will have a much better shot at landing Skadden, Weil, Davis Polk etc. than if you land top half at UVA. You have to sit back and think if that's worth the extra money to you.


This is credited. To clarify, though, NYU's placement for 101+ attorney firms is 43.1%, with UVa at 37.1%. Even though this is a bigger difference than originally anticipated, if we count firms with 51-100 attnys, then NYU: 43.9% and UVa: 43.5%.

Below is information on their placement among elite law firms. The data skews in NYU's favor substantially. Still, I don't think OP should take NYU over UVa's 100k.

NY Based Elite:
Wachtell | NYU: 34 attnys, UVa: 2 attnys
Cravath | NYU: 45, UVa: 8
Sullivan | NYU: 59, UVa: 31
Skadden | NYU: 133, UVa: 44
Davis Polk | NYU: 107, UVa: 26

Non-NY Based Elite:
Kirkland (Chi) | NYU: 81, UVa: 39
Latham (NY/LA) | NYU: 101, UVa: 72
Covington (DC) | NYU: 48, UVa: 35
Gibson (LA) | NYU: 74, UVa: 34
Sidley (Chi) | NYU: 83, UVa: 48
Williams & Connoly (DC) | NYU: 2, UVa: 30
Quinn (LA) | NYU: 48, UVa: 15
MoFo (SF) | NYU: 59, UVa: 22
Ropes & Gray (Boston) | NYU: 57, UVa: 24
Wilmerhale (DC) | NYU: 40, UVa: 31
Keker (SF) | NYU: 3, UVa: 1
Irell (LA) | NYU: 9, UVa: 1


If we look at midrange firms, it seems to be a close call.

Midrange (Vault 50+ firm) Sampling:
Cahill (NY) | NYU: 36, UVa: 14*
Morgan Lewis (Philadelphia) | NYU: 55, UVa: 58
Bingham (Boston) | NYU: 38, UVa: 30
Cooley (Palo Alto) | NYU: 37, UVa: 29
Perkins Coie (Seattle) | NYU: 17, UVa: 24
Patton Boggs (DC) | NYU: 10, UVa: 24*
Bryan Cave (St. Louis) | NYU: 56, UVa: 40
K&L Gates (Pittsburgh) | NYU: 47, UVa: 48
Fullbright (TX) | NYU: 32, UVa: 20
*skewed towards home region

For perspective, UVa class size: 368, and NYU class size: 452

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JamMasterJ
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Re: NYU v UVA (WITH Money)

Postby JamMasterJ » Sun Dec 16, 2012 7:42 pm

gaucholaw wrote:" Obviously NYU is a betters school with a better rank, but I was wondering how big this gap actually is."

^^^ This is the TLS USNEWS whoring that pisses the hell out of me.... "omg... number 6 school is OBVIOUSLY better than 7 ranked school" lets even pretend for a second that UVA wasn't offering you a scholly.... should it still be an obvious decision? how about quality of life? How about a school that's actually going to give you a PASSION for the law instead of just your J.D.

I don't mean to target you personally.... but this needs to be mentioned... 8) Just sayin'

it could be perfectly rational to want to go to NYU over UVA all things equal.... but the 1 ranking difference shouldn't be what makes the difference.... and no, NYU isn't OBVIOUSLY better

couple issue:
1) Yes there isn't a huge employment gap, but when you look at the fact that both schools are going to put him in the kind of debt that requires biglaw or LRAP, having a slighlty better biglaw shot and a MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH better LRAP is important. If this were NYU at high cost v. UVA at manageable cost, I'd say UVA is probably the better choice. But you're still talking well over 100K in total debt. When you thrown in the fact that people who get 1/2 schollies at UVA and get into NYU in the first week of RD are likely to get SIGNIFICANT money from NYU, I don't think the difference is going to be huge, and not big enough to overcome the LRAP/biglaw boost issue.

2) Don't try to fucking tell me that you're not going to get
a PASSION for the law instead of just your J.D.
We have bar none, the happiest group of students in the T14. You're silly for trying to call us a degree mill.

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twenty
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Re: NYU v UVA (WITH Money)

Postby twenty » Sun Dec 16, 2012 9:44 pm

I feel like there's not enough talk about LRAP here. UVA's eligibility notice seems to make me think that unless you're an attorney working for a non-profit/government making more than 50k and less than 70k, only then will you be eligible, whereas NYU's includes policy folks, government spots, basically anything but school teachers and partisan politics.

If that's actually true, that's a MASSIVE difference between the two schools.

EDIT> Also, if QoL was an issue (which it shouldn't be, but hey), NYU hands down.




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