Which school should I attend?

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

Assuming middle of class which school will have a higher paying job afterward?

George Washington University
40
39%
Washington and Lee
4
4%
Fordham
38
37%
Iowa
1
1%
Wisconsin
3
3%
William and Mary
2
2%
Ohio State University
5
5%
University of Maryland
3
3%
American University
2
2%
Florida State
4
4%
 
Total votes: 102

ajax
Posts: 278
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 9:33 pm

Re: Fordham

Postby ajax » Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:18 pm

John Milton wrote:I hear Fordham has pretty solid employment statistics. Kind of need to know more about you and what your ideal endgame is.



"Pretty solid employment statistics" can be interpreted many different ways. I would describe Fordham's employment statistics as average:

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=fordham&show=ABA

246 of 428 landed long-term full-time jobs that require a JD. That is 57.5 percent, which is pretty darn close to 50% (average).

User avatar
somewhatwayward
Posts: 1446
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2009 5:10 pm

Re: Which school should I attend?

Postby somewhatwayward » Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:38 pm

About a quarter get biglaw or fed clerkship, so you need to be at least top 1/3 to be competitive. Above median you should be able to find a real lawyer job. Bottom 1/3 goes on welfare.


There is a problem with the analysis that 25% get big law/clerkship (seemed lower for c/o 2014 based on Fordham OCI TLS thread and the general observation that hiring was down this year over last), 25% more get real jobs, and 1/3 go on welfare (putting aside the fate of the 1/6 above bottom third but below median?...I guess some are eaten up by the 57% referenced above but that still leaves ~10% unaccounted for - perhaps more like 40+% on welfare). The problem is that whether you end up in the 32% employed in non biglaw/clerkship or the 43% on welfare is unpredictable. The top of the class knows predictably that they can land big law or clerkship with a couple outliers. The other jobs aren't as focused on grades, though. The very bottom person in the entire class could be employed while someone above median but below top 1/3 is unemployed. There are some things you can do to try to mitigate the unpredictability - networking, working during the year to boost your resume and make contacts, applying for jobs like a mofo, etc. It is still very unpredictable, though.

If you don't get a scholarship (and Fordham is stingy with those, eg, my older sibling with 175/3.5 who got 5K a year), you are basically spending 200K+ for 10-20% chance of a predictably good outcome (top of the class) and an 80% chance at a 50/50 lottery for a less desirable job. That is scary, no matter how you cut it. Fordham does place well relative to its ranking, but that doesn't mean it places well in an absolute sense.

What Fordham, like basically every other school except Y and S (they should double LOL), should really do is cut its class in half. The market has been absorbing about half its class. It could increase its selectivity and its employment statistics. It would be way better for the students, too. Of course, revenue would plummet.

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dingbat
Posts: 4976
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 9:12 pm

Re: Which school should I attend?

Postby dingbat » Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:43 pm

somewhatwayward wrote:
About a quarter get biglaw or fed clerkship, so you need to be at least top 1/3 to be competitive. Above median you should be able to find a real lawyer job. Bottom 1/3 goes on welfare.


There is a problem with the analysis that 25% get big law/clerkship (seemed lower for c/o 2014 based on Fordham OCI TLS thread and the general observation that hiring was down this year over last), 25% more get real jobs, and 1/3 go on welfare (putting aside the fate of the 1/6 above bottom third but below median?...I guess some are eaten up by the 57% referenced above but that still leaves ~10% unaccounted for - perhaps more like 40+% on welfare). The problem is that whether you end up in the 32% employed in non biglaw/clerkship or the 43% on welfare is unpredictable. The top of the class knows predictably that they can land big law or clerkship with a couple outliers. The other jobs aren't as focused on grades, though. The very bottom person in the entire class could be employed while someone above median but below top 1/3 is unemployed. There are some things you can do to try to mitigate the unpredictability - networking, working during the year to boost your resume and make contacts, applying for jobs like a mofo, etc. It is still very unpredictable, though.

If you don't get a scholarship (and Fordham is stingy with those, eg, my older sibling with 175/3.5 who got 5K a year), you are basically spending 200K+ for 10-20% chance of a predictably good outcome (top of the class) and an 80% chance at a 50/50 lottery for a less desirable job. That is scary, no matter how you cut it. Fordham does place well relative to its ranking, but that doesn't mean it places well in an absolute sense.

What Fordham, like basically every other school except Y and S (they should double LOL), should really do is cut its class in half. The market has been absorbing about half its class. It could increase its selectivity and its employment statistics. It would be way better for the students, too. Of course, revenue would plummet.

I didn't mean it as an accurate guide, just a quick summation. The welfare joke should have been a dead giveaway.
Aside from that, I can see numerous problems with the above, but that's neither here nor there. If OP can get significant scholly money, Fordham is a good option. At sticker, it's very debatable, but so is every other school outside (and possibly inside) the T14

ajax
Posts: 278
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 9:33 pm

Re: Which school should I attend?

Postby ajax » Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:27 pm

dingbat wrote:
somewhatwayward wrote:
About a quarter get biglaw or fed clerkship, so you need to be at least top 1/3 to be competitive. Above median you should be able to find a real lawyer job. Bottom 1/3 goes on welfare.


There is a problem with the analysis that 25% get big law/clerkship (seemed lower for c/o 2014 based on Fordham OCI TLS thread and the general observation that hiring was down this year over last), 25% more get real jobs, and 1/3 go on welfare (putting aside the fate of the 1/6 above bottom third but below median?...I guess some are eaten up by the 57% referenced above but that still leaves ~10% unaccounted for - perhaps more like 40+% on welfare). The problem is that whether you end up in the 32% employed in non biglaw/clerkship or the 43% on welfare is unpredictable. The top of the class knows predictably that they can land big law or clerkship with a couple outliers. The other jobs aren't as focused on grades, though. The very bottom person in the entire class could be employed while someone above median but below top 1/3 is unemployed. There are some things you can do to try to mitigate the unpredictability - networking, working during the year to boost your resume and make contacts, applying for jobs like a mofo, etc. It is still very unpredictable, though.

If you don't get a scholarship (and Fordham is stingy with those, eg, my older sibling with 175/3.5 who got 5K a year), you are basically spending 200K+ for 10-20% chance of a predictably good outcome (top of the class) and an 80% chance at a 50/50 lottery for a less desirable job. That is scary, no matter how you cut it. Fordham does place well relative to its ranking, but that doesn't mean it places well in an absolute sense.

What Fordham, like basically every other school except Y and S (they should double LOL), should really do is cut its class in half. The market has been absorbing about half its class. It could increase its selectivity and its employment statistics. It would be way better for the students, too. Of course, revenue would plummet.

I didn't mean it as an accurate guide, just a quick summation. The welfare joke should have been a dead giveaway.
Aside from that, I can see numerous problems with the above, but that's neither here nor there. If OP can get significant scholly money, Fordham is a good option. At sticker, it's very debatable, but so is every other school outside (and possibly inside) the T14



I'm still waiting for you to make the debate for Fordham at sticker. You've said again, and again that it is "debatable" or "a case can be made". Please enlighten.

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alwayssunnyinfl
Posts: 4100
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:34 pm

Re: Which school should I attend?

Postby alwayssunnyinfl » Mon Dec 17, 2012 6:16 pm

- This is dingbat




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