What is the best law school for me? Forum

[itachiuchiha]

Born is Pakistan and raised in Fort Lauderdale, Florida for 19 years of my life. Undergrad with 3.97 UGPA with probably a 3.8 LSAC GPA currently attending Nova Southeastern University for undergrad as a legal studies major.

Will probably get something close to a 160 on the lsat. I want to either practice law in Florida, North Carolina, Washington DC, Chicago, or New York. I want to practice corporate law.

Softs: pakistani student association, muslim student association, PAID/FOR CREDIT Legal Internship at a local law firm. honors program at Nova Southeastern, Dual admitted into Nova Southeastern law. On full academic scholarship at Nova Southeastern

I am aiming for anything in the top 50
Can anyone recommend anything for me?

BTW: I hope to go into my own practice out of law school and apply to jobs in the meanwhile (Don't bash me for this)

[Doorkeeper]

1) Set your LSAT goals higher. Aim for a 170. If you get a 170/3.8, you'll get into Penn, Michigan, Duke, and a number of other schools in the top 14.

2) Do not stop until you get around a 170 on your LSAT.

3) Go to the best law school you can get into. If you want NYC or DC, you should go to a top 14 school.

If you want to actually start your own law firm, then do all of the things above to maximize the amount of scholarship money you will get from the best school that is in the geographic area that you want to work in.

[itachiuchiha]

1) Set your LSAT goals higher. Aim for a 170. If you get a 170/3.8, you'll get into Penn, Michigan, Duke, and a number of other schools in the top 14.

2) Do not stop until you get around a 170 on your LSAT.

3) Go to the best law school you can get into. If you want NYC or DC, you should go to a top 14 school.

If you want to actually start your own law firm, then do all of the things above to maximize the amount of scholarship money you will get from the best school that is in the geographic area that you want to work in.

I am PTing around 150 right now, I take in June, 170 may seem too high for me. I would be ecstatic if I did a 160

[Puffin]

Junes a long way off, with a 3.8 170+ you could snag several acceptances along with the potential for significant money in the T-14*.

[Grazzhoppa]

go over to the LSAT prep forum and see what people did to get high scores on the LSAT. Emulate and profit.

[Doorkeeper]

I am PTing around 150 right now, I take in June, 170 may seem too high for me. I would be ecstatic if I did a 160

With enough time, enough effort, and maybe some tutoring if you have specific weak spots, you can definitely turn a 150 PT to at least a mid-160s an maybe higher.

[timbs4339]

What do you mean when you say you want to do "corporate law?"

[itachiuchiha]

What do you mean when you say you want to do "corporate law?"

Corporate law (also "company" or "corporations" law) is the study of how shareholders, directors, employees, creditors, and other stakeholders such as consumers, the community and the environment interact with one another. Corporate law is a part of a broader companies law (or law of business associations). Other types of business associations can include partnerships (in the UK governed by the Partnership Act 1890), or trusts (like a pension fund), or companies limited by guarantee (like some community organisations or charities). Under corporate law, corporations of all sizes have separate legal personality, with limited liability or unlimited liability for its shareholders. Shareholders control the company through a board of directors which, in turn, typically delegates control of the corporation's day to day operations to a full-time executive. Corporate law deals with firms that are incorporated or registered under the corporate or company law of a sovereign state or their subnational states.

[rinkrat19]

What do you mean when you say you want to do "corporate law?"

Corporate law (also "company" or "corporations" law) is the study of how shareholders, directors, employees, creditors, and other stakeholders such as consumers, the community and the environment interact with one another. Corporate law is a part of a broader companies law (or law of business associations). Other types of business associations can include partnerships (in the UK governed by the Partnership Act 1890), or trusts (like a pension fund), or companies limited by guarantee (like some community organisations or charities). Under corporate law, corporations of all sizes have separate legal personality, with limited liability or unlimited liability for its shareholders. Shareholders control the company through a board of directors which, in turn, typically delegates control of the corporation's day to day operations to a full-time executive. Corporate law deals with firms that are incorporated or registered under the corporate or company law of a sovereign state or their subnational states.

Wow, you could write for Wikipedia.

[timbs4339]

What do you mean when you say you want to do "corporate law?"

Corporate law (also "company" or "corporations" law) is the study of how shareholders, directors, employees, creditors, and other stakeholders such as consumers, the community and the environment interact with one another. Corporate law is a part of a broader companies law (or law of business associations). Other types of business associations can include partnerships (in the UK governed by the Partnership Act 1890), or trusts (like a pension fund), or companies limited by guarantee (like some community organisations or charities). Under corporate law, corporations of all sizes have separate legal personality, with limited liability or unlimited liability for its shareholders. Shareholders control the company through a board of directors which, in turn, typically delegates control of the corporation's day to day operations to a full-time executive. Corporate law deals with firms that are incorporated or registered under the corporate or company law of a sovereign state or their subnational states.

So you want to be a law professor?

[PickMe!]

Will probably get something close to a 160 on the lsat.

Postpone.

[Justin Genious]

What do you mean when you say you want to do "corporate law?"

Corporate law (also "company" or "corporations" law) is the study of how shareholders, directors, employees, creditors, and other stakeholders such as consumers, the community and the environment interact with one another. Corporate law is a part of a broader companies law (or law of business associations). Other types of business associations can include partnerships (in the UK governed by the Partnership Act 1890), or trusts (like a pension fund), or companies limited by guarantee (like some community organisations or charities). Under corporate law, corporations of all sizes have separate legal personality, with limited liability or unlimited liability for its shareholders. Shareholders control the company through a board of directors which, in turn, typically delegates control of the corporation's day to day operations to a full-time executive. Corporate law deals with firms that are incorporated or registered under the corporate or company law of a sovereign state or their subnational states.

Best. Post. Ever.

[Mick Haller]

I would be ecstatic if I did a 160

I used to think like that too. But this is wrong. Scoring 160 is little better than scoring 150, especially if your goal is to practice corporate law. Your chances of becoming a corporate lawyer out of a school ranked 30 and lower is about 5-10%.

If you can't get at least in the upper 160s, then you should choose another career path. And there's no shame in that.

(this is coming from someone who scored in the low 160s, graduated top 15% at a lower T1, and has a lot of debt and no job.)

[cahwc12]

I believe that you have no idea what a corporate lawyer does. I also believe that you should change your major if you aren't a senior. "Legal studies" isn't something you should get a bachelor's degree in. Law schools don't look at your transcript and go "wow this guy studied constitutional law already... we should just give him credit for this class! He knows so much about the law already too maybe we can start him as a 2L!"

Someone who majors in "legal studies" as an undergraduate is probably the least attractive candidate of all possible majors in all honesty. To boot, "legal studies" doesn't prepare you to do anything at all.


Here's what your life will be like if you continue on this path:

You take the LSAT with marginal prep and get a 156.
You graduate with a Bachelor of "Science" in Legal Studies.
You attend Florida International University College of Law because it's close to home and that's where 3.8 / 156 will get you.
You borrow 100% the cost of tuition @ $20,000/semester plus $8500/semester at 6.8% interest for living expenses.
You graduate with median grades and no job, but owe $100,000 and growing in non-dischargeable student loans.
You try to open your own practice and realize how bad an idea that is (FIU reports you as FT, LT "solo practitioner").
You can't get a job because you have a bachelor's in legal studies and a law degree from FIU.
You can't get your old job back because you are "overqualified."
You don't have the skills to do anything other than work as a barista, but are "overqualified" so you can't get a job at Starbuck's.
You wonder how you worked hard for 7 of the most productive years of your life to end up like this.


Or you can study for 3-5 months for the LSAT and take this path:

You take the LSAT after 3-5 months of diligent prep and get a 171.
You graduate with a Bachelor of "Science" in Legal Studies.
You attend Duke Law School because that school places best for corporate law that you can get almost a full ride to.
You borrow $8500/semester at 6.8% interest for living expenses.
You get median grades, get lucky with a 1L summer job that turns into a 2L offer that turns into a job upon graduation.
You make $145,000/year working long hours at a firm in DC.
You wonder why you worked for 7 years to get a job you hate because you had no idea what corporate lawyers actually do.

[itachiuchiha]

I believe that you have no idea what a corporate lawyer does. I also believe that you should change your major if you aren't a senior. "Legal studies" isn't something you should get a bachelor's degree in. Law schools don't look at your transcript and go "wow this guy studied constitutional law already... we should just give him credit for this class! He knows so much about the law already too maybe we can start him as a 2L!"

Someone who majors in "legal studies" as an undergraduate is probably the least attractive candidate of all possible majors in all honesty. To boot, "legal studies" doesn't prepare you to do anything at all.


Here's what your life will be like if you continue on this path:

You take the LSAT with marginal prep and get a 156.
You graduate with a Bachelor of "Science" in Legal Studies.
You attend Florida International University College of Law because it's close to home and that's where 3.8 / 156 will get you.
You borrow 100% the cost of tuition @ $20,000/semester plus $8500/semester at 6.8% interest for living expenses.
You graduate with median grades and no job, but owe $100,000 and growing in non-dischargeable student loans.
You try to open your own practice and realize how bad an idea that is (FIU reports you as FT, LT "solo practitioner").
You can't get a job because you have a bachelor's in legal studies and a law degree from FIU.
You can't get your old job back because you are "overqualified."
You don't have the skills to do anything other than work as a barista, but are "overqualified" so you can't get a job at Starbuck's.
You wonder how you worked hard for 7 of the most productive years of your life to end up like this.


Or you can study for 3-5 months for the LSAT and take this path:

You take the LSAT after 3-5 months of diligent prep and get a 171.
You graduate with a Bachelor of "Science" in Legal Studies.
You attend Duke Law School because that school places best for corporate law that you can get almost a full ride to.
You borrow $8500/semester at 6.8% interest for living expenses.
You get median grades, get lucky with a 1L summer job that turns into a 2L offer that turns into a job upon graduation.
You make $145,000/year working long hours at a firm in DC.
You wonder why you worked for 7 years to get a job you hate because you had no idea what corporate lawyers actually do.

I'll take option 2
But I am not set in stone what type of law I want to do. Corporate is just an option. Maybe I will get into real estate law.
I already know about the legal studies major issue, and it is not that big of a deal.
Thanks for the essay

[kwais]

What do you mean when you say you want to do "corporate law?"

Corporate law (also "company" or "corporations" law) is the study of how shareholders, directors, employees, creditors, and other stakeholders such as consumers, the community and the environment interact with one another. Corporate law is a part of a broader companies law (or law of business associations). Other types of business associations can include partnerships (in the UK governed by the Partnership Act 1890), or trusts (like a pension fund), or companies limited by guarantee (like some community organisations or charities). Under corporate law, corporations of all sizes have separate legal personality, with limited liability or unlimited liability for its shareholders. Shareholders control the company through a board of directors which, in turn, typically delegates control of the corporation's day to day operations to a full-time executive. Corporate law deals with firms that are incorporated or registered under the corporate or company law of a sovereign state or their subnational states.

Can we sticky this for all those noobs who want to know what corporate lawyers do? Though it would be better if we could expand on subnational incorporation first. Thanks OP!

[timbs4339]

Corporate law is not "just an option." Corporate (or real estate) is something that you do if you have top school credentials or are extraordinarily lucky at a middling tier school. There is no market for corporate law outside of large F500 type corporations.

If you think you'd like to handle wills and trusts, divorce/custody law, DUIs/possession cases, immigration, personal bankruptcies, home closings, and the occasional personal injury lawsuit, than you' have a shot with a 160 and a full ride to any crappy school. If you want to be a corporate lawyer, you need high-160s /low-170s.

There is also no market for a solo corporate or real estate lawyer with no experience, and you get those jobs after your first-year of law school anyway.

[Richie Tenenbaum]

What do you mean when you say you want to do "corporate law?"

Corporate law (also "company" or "corporations" law) is the study of how shareholders, directors, employees, creditors, and other stakeholders such as consumers, the community and the environment interact with one another. Corporate law is a part of a broader companies law (or law of business associations). Other types of business associations can include partnerships (in the UK governed by the Partnership Act 1890), or trusts (like a pension fund), or companies limited by guarantee (like some community organisations or charities). Under corporate law, corporations of all sizes have separate legal personality, with limited liability or unlimited liability for its shareholders. Shareholders control the company through a board of directors which, in turn, typically delegates control of the corporation's day to day operations to a full-time executive. Corporate law deals with firms that are incorporated or registered under the corporate or company law of a sovereign state or their subnational states.

Can we sticky this for all those noobs who want to know what corporate lawyers do? Though it would be better if we could expand on subnational incorporation first. Thanks OP!

Can I add to it first?:

The four defining characteristics of the modern corporation are:

*Separate Legal Personality of the corporation (access to tort and contract law in a manner similar to a person)
*Limited Liability of the shareholders (a shareholder's personal liability is limited to the value of their shares in the corporation)
*Shares (if the corporation is a public company, the shares are traded on a stock exchange, such as the London Stock Exchange, New York Stock Exchange, Euronext in Paris or BM&F Bovespa in Sao Paulo)
*Delegated Management; the board of directors delegates day-to-day management of the company to executives

In many developed countries outside of the English speaking world, company boards are appointed as representatives of both shareholders and employees to "codetermine" company strategy.Corporate law is often divided into corporate governance (which concerns the various power relations within a corporation) and corporate finance (which concerns the rules on how capital is used). A major contributor to company law in the UK is the Companies Act 2006.

[itachiuchiha]

Corporate law is not "just an option." Corporate (or real estate) is something that you do if you have top school credentials or are extraordinarily lucky at a middling tier school. There is no market for corporate law outside of large F500 type corporations.

If you think you'd like to handle wills and trusts, divorce/custody law, DUIs/possession cases, immigration, personal bankruptcies, home closings, and the occasional personal injury lawsuit, than you' have a shot with a 160 and a full ride to any crappy school. If you want to be a corporate lawyer, you need high-160s /low-170s.

There is also no market for a solo corporate or real estate lawyer with no experience, and you get those jobs after your first-year of law school anyway.

THANK YOU! I know you are trying to help me, I do appreciate that. Sorry if I do sound n00bish, I may be a n00b. But you have just reaffirmed my decision, I am going for the 165+, and getting my ass to Duke. I've already got a house there.

BTW: the law firm where I work at has a bunch of real estate attorneys graduating from a Tier 4 school, they all seem to be doing pretty well.

[kwais]

What do you mean when you say you want to do "corporate law?"

Corporate law (also "company" or "corporations" law) is the study of how shareholders, directors, employees, creditors, and other stakeholders such as consumers, the community and the environment interact with one another. Corporate law is a part of a broader companies law (or law of business associations). Other types of business associations can include partnerships (in the UK governed by the Partnership Act 1890), or trusts (like a pension fund), or companies limited by guarantee (like some community organisations or charities). Under corporate law, corporations of all sizes have separate legal personality, with limited liability or unlimited liability for its shareholders. Shareholders control the company through a board of directors which, in turn, typically delegates control of the corporation's day to day operations to a full-time executive. Corporate law deals with firms that are incorporated or registered under the corporate or company law of a sovereign state or their subnational states.

Can we sticky this for all those noobs who want to know what corporate lawyers do? Though it would be better if we could expand on subnational incorporation first. Thanks OP!

Can I add to it first?:

The four defining characteristics of the modern corporation are:

*Separate Legal Personality of the corporation (access to tort and contract law in a manner similar to a person)
*Limited Liability of the shareholders (a shareholder's personal liability is limited to the value of their shares in the corporation)
*Shares (if the corporation is a public company, the shares are traded on a stock exchange, such as the London Stock Exchange, New York Stock Exchange, Euronext in Paris or BM&F Bovespa in Sao Paulo)
*Delegated Management; the board of directors delegates day-to-day management of the company to executives

In many developed countries outside of the English speaking world, company boards are appointed as representatives of both shareholders and employees to "codetermine" company strategy.Corporate law is often divided into corporate governance (which concerns the various power relations within a corporation) and corporate finance (which concerns the rules on how capital is used). A major contributor to company law in the UK is the Companies Act 2006.

well gosh, now that you added all that, there is nothing for biglaw firms to do in the first few years. people who read this will come in at the 3rd year associate level.

[cahwc12]

Corporate law is not "just an option." Corporate (or real estate) is something that you do if you have top school credentials or are extraordinarily lucky at a middling tier school. There is no market for corporate law outside of large F500 type corporations.

If you think you'd like to handle wills and trusts, divorce/custody law, DUIs/possession cases, immigration, personal bankruptcies, home closings, and the occasional personal injury lawsuit, than you' have a shot with a 160 and a full ride to any crappy school. If you want to be a corporate lawyer, you need high-160s /low-170s.

There is also no market for a solo corporate or real estate lawyer with no experience, and you get those jobs after your first-year of law school anyway.

THANK YOU! I know you are trying to help me, I do appreciate that. Sorry if I do sound n00bish, I may be a n00b. But you have just reaffirmed my decision, I am going for the 165+, and getting my ass to Duke. I've already got a house there.

BTW: the law firm where I work at has a bunch of real estate attorneys graduating from a Tier 4 school, they all seem to be doing pretty well.

Confirmation bias (also called confirmatory bias or myside bias) is a tendency of people to favor information that confirms their beliefs or hypotheses. People display this bias when they gather or remember information selectively, or when they interpret it in a biased way. The effect is stronger for emotionally charged issues and for deeply entrenched beliefs. For example, in reading about current political issues, people usually prefer sources that affirm their existing attitudes. They also tend to interpret ambiguous evidence as supporting their existing position. A series of experiments in the 1960s suggested that people are biased toward confirming their existing beliefs. Later work re-interpreted these results as a tendency to test ideas in a one-sided way, focusing on one possibility and ignoring alternatives. In certain situations, this tendency can bias people's conclusions. Explanations for the observed biases include wishful thinking and the limited human capacity to process information. Another explanation is that people show confirmation bias because they are weighing up the costs of being wrong, rather than investigating in a neutral, scientific way. Confirmation biases contribute to overconfidence in personal beliefs and can maintain or strengthen beliefs in the face of contrary evidence. Poor decisions due to these biases have been found in military, political, and organizational contexts.

[itachiuchiha]

Corporate law is not "just an option." Corporate (or real estate) is something that you do if you have top school credentials or are extraordinarily lucky at a middling tier school. There is no market for corporate law outside of large F500 type corporations.

If you think you'd like to handle wills and trusts, divorce/custody law, DUIs/possession cases, immigration, personal bankruptcies, home closings, and the occasional personal injury lawsuit, than you' have a shot with a 160 and a full ride to any crappy school. If you want to be a corporate lawyer, you need high-160s /low-170s.

There is also no market for a solo corporate or real estate lawyer with no experience, and you get those jobs after your first-year of law school anyway.

THANK YOU! I know you are trying to help me, I do appreciate that. Sorry if I do sound n00bish, I may be a n00b. But you have just reaffirmed my decision, I am going for the 165+, and getting my ass to Duke. I've already got a house there.

BTW: the law firm where I work at has a bunch of real estate attorneys graduating from a Tier 4 school, they all seem to be doing pretty well.

Confirmation bias (also called confirmatory bias or myside bias) is a tendency of people to favor information that confirms their beliefs or hypotheses. People display this bias when they gather or remember information selectively, or when they interpret it in a biased way. The effect is stronger for emotionally charged issues and for deeply entrenched beliefs. For example, in reading about current political issues, people usually prefer sources that affirm their existing attitudes. They also tend to interpret ambiguous evidence as supporting their existing position. A series of experiments in the 1960s suggested that people are biased toward confirming their existing beliefs. Later work re-interpreted these results as a tendency to test ideas in a one-sided way, focusing on one possibility and ignoring alternatives. In certain situations, this tendency can bias people's conclusions. Explanations for the observed biases include wishful thinking and the limited human capacity to process information. Another explanation is that people show confirmation bias because they are weighing up the costs of being wrong, rather than investigating in a neutral, scientific way. Confirmation biases contribute to overconfidence in personal beliefs and can maintain or strengthen beliefs in the face of contrary evidence. Poor decisions due to these biases have been found in military, political, and organizational contexts.

awesome, i can quote wiki too.

[francesfarmer]

awesome, i can quote wiki too.

OP, do yourself a favor and don't start fights with people on TLS. Its so sad to watch noobies get heckled.

[kwais]

awesome, i can quote wiki too.

[Richie Tenenbaum]

Corporate law is not "just an option." Corporate (or real estate) is something that you do if you have top school credentials or are extraordinarily lucky at a middling tier school. There is no market for corporate law outside of large F500 type corporations.

If you think you'd like to handle wills and trusts, divorce/custody law, DUIs/possession cases, immigration, personal bankruptcies, home closings, and the occasional personal injury lawsuit, than you' have a shot with a 160 and a full ride to any crappy school. If you want to be a corporate lawyer, you need high-160s /low-170s.

There is also no market for a solo corporate or real estate lawyer with no experience, and you get those jobs after your first-year of law school anyway.

THANK YOU! I know you are trying to help me, I do appreciate that. Sorry if I do sound n00bish, I may be a n00b. But you have just reaffirmed my decision, I am going for the 165+, and getting my ass to Duke. I've already got a house there.

BTW: the law firm where I work at has a bunch of real estate attorneys graduating from a Tier 4 school, they all seem to be doing pretty well.

Confirmation bias (also called confirmatory bias or myside bias) is a tendency of people to favor information that confirms their beliefs or hypotheses. People display this bias when they gather or remember information selectively, or when they interpret it in a biased way. The effect is stronger for emotionally charged issues and for deeply entrenched beliefs. For example, in reading about current political issues, people usually prefer sources that affirm their existing attitudes. They also tend to interpret ambiguous evidence as supporting their existing position. A series of experiments in the 1960s suggested that people are biased toward confirming their existing beliefs. Later work re-interpreted these results as a tendency to test ideas in a one-sided way, focusing on one possibility and ignoring alternatives. In certain situations, this tendency can bias people's conclusions. Explanations for the observed biases include wishful thinking and the limited human capacity to process information. Another explanation is that people show confirmation bias because they are weighing up the costs of being wrong, rather than investigating in a neutral, scientific way. Confirmation biases contribute to overconfidence in personal beliefs and can maintain or strengthen beliefs in the face of contrary evidence. Poor decisions due to these biases have been found in military, political, and organizational contexts.

awesome, i can quote wiki too.

Don't kid yourself--I read what you wrote about corporate law. You don't need to resort to that.