Non-Biglaw, minimum debt: does T1/T2 really matter?

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )
User avatar
FlanAl
Posts: 1474
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2010 4:53 pm

Re: Non-Biglaw, minimum debt: does T1/T2 really matter?

Postby FlanAl » Sun Dec 09, 2012 10:11 pm

main thing to do I think is figure out what you want to do or at least have a ball park idea of what you want to do outside of big law. If its public interest type stuff definitely check out the lrap options at your schools.

User avatar
gwuorbust
Posts: 2087
Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2009 11:37 pm

Re: Non-Biglaw, minimum debt: does T1/T2 really matter?

Postby gwuorbust » Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:26 pm

dextermorgan wrote:Realistic expectations mean understanding that a lot of those "bar-required" jobs are in things like personal injury and family law shops. No one goes in wanting to do stuff like that, but a lot will. Everyone hopes that they will be working at the nice mid-law firms in the city making 90K, but the vast majority of the class won't.


This is true, but I do not think it is meaningful. Most 0Ls do not know what it means to "practice law." A personal injury lawyer that takes every case to trial does a ton more "legal work" (from a traditional perspective) than many (most?) biglaw associates. The issue is that even finding a lower paid legal job is very difficult.

I think that there are plenty of opportunities out there. However, getting a biglaw or mystical midlaw is out of the question for almost everyone outside of the top 10%. And then finding a small law job is difficult before you are barred. Point being, getting a legal job is a challenge that should not be underestimated.

User avatar
Tiago Splitter
Posts: 15495
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:20 am

Re: Non-Biglaw, minimum debt: does T1/T2 really matter?

Postby Tiago Splitter » Mon Dec 10, 2012 2:26 pm

BarbellDreams wrote:If you get into Temple, have in state and a half ride you're total CoA will be under 50K. I'll take that.

A half ride at Temple, even off in-state tuition, will leave someone who debt finances the whole thing up around 100K debt when repayment starts. Only way to keep it under 50K would be to have all living expenses covered.

User avatar
AbbeyRoadLaw
Posts: 158
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:56 pm

Re: Non-Biglaw, minimum debt: does T1/T2 really matter?

Postby AbbeyRoadLaw » Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:46 am

TheThriller wrote:
Circlewave wrote:given that T14 is totally out of the question for me this cycle unless I retook the LSAT and absolutely crushed it (currently a ~3.5 gpa, 163 lsat), isn't it better to take a lower ranked school with $$$ if job prospects are bad everywhere (besides T14) for all but the top 10-20% at T2s? if i'm going to have to work about equally hard at a #20 or a #50, seems like there would be sense in taking the lower ranked money...or should i just retake and reapply?


If these are your options I wouldnt got to law school at all.

You have really mastered the use of the comma...

User avatar
Shmoopy
Posts: 225
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2012 4:52 pm

Re: Non-Biglaw, minimum debt: does T1/T2 really matter?

Postby Shmoopy » Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:22 pm

One factor that generally influences employment prospects at lower ranked schools is regional competition. For example, grads of u Maine will have better prospects than grads of St. John's because Maine is the only school in the state whereas there are lots of better schools in NYC. So I would wager that t2s that are the best in their region will generally have better job prospects than other t2s. Keep in mind that this means you must want to stay in that region, and that there may not be much variety in employment options either.

User avatar
bk1
Posts: 18420
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:06 pm

Re: Non-Biglaw, minimum debt: does T1/T2 really matter?

Postby bk1 » Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:27 pm

Shmoopy wrote:One factor that generally influences employment prospects at lower ranked schools is regional competition. For example, grads of u Maine will have better prospects than grads of St. John's because Maine is the only school in the state whereas there are lots of better schools in NYC. So I would wager that t2s that are the best in their region will generally have better job prospects than other t2s. Keep in mind that this means you must want to stay in that region, and that there may not be much variety in employment options either.

People say this all the time but it really isn't true. The number of jobs in ME is so much smaller than then umber of jobs in NYC that it balances out.

The percentage of full time, long term, bar passage required jobs at each school is fairly close to each (in fact, St. John's is higher). 41.1% for UMaine and 46.7% for St. John's.

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=stjohns
http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=maine

User avatar
BarbellDreams
Posts: 2256
Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2009 6:10 pm

Re: Non-Biglaw, minimum debt: does T1/T2 really matter?

Postby BarbellDreams » Fri Dec 28, 2012 1:07 am

Tiago Splitter wrote:
BarbellDreams wrote:If you get into Temple, have in state and a half ride you're total CoA will be under 50K. I'll take that.

A half ride at Temple, even off in-state tuition, will leave someone who debt finances the whole thing up around 100K debt when repayment starts. Only way to keep it under 50K would be to have all living expenses covered.


It'll actually be around 65K-70 including 2 year interest as well as the overexaggerated living expenses schools always cite. You can easily keep it to the lower end of that range as long as you don't decide to live large: http://www.law.temple.edu/pages/Prospec ... dance.aspx

So no, not 100K, and yes, I would take that.

User avatar
Tiago Splitter
Posts: 15495
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:20 am

Re: Non-Biglaw, minimum debt: does T1/T2 really matter?

Postby Tiago Splitter » Fri Dec 28, 2012 1:17 am

BarbellDreams wrote:
Tiago Splitter wrote:
BarbellDreams wrote:If you get into Temple, have in state and a half ride you're total CoA will be under 50K. I'll take that.

A half ride at Temple, even off in-state tuition, will leave someone who debt finances the whole thing up around 100K debt when repayment starts. Only way to keep it under 50K would be to have all living expenses covered.


It'll actually be around 65K-70 including 2 year interest as well as the overexaggerated living expenses schools always cite. You can easily keep it to the lower end of that range as long as you don't decide to live large: http://www.law.temple.edu/pages/Prospec ... dance.aspx

So no, not 100K, and yes, I would take that.


A half ride doesn't mean half off of tuition and living expenses. 10K in tuition and 15K in living expenses, which is far below the school's quoted cost of living, puts you at about 90K when repayment starts.

User avatar
BarbellDreams
Posts: 2256
Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2009 6:10 pm

Re: Non-Biglaw, minimum debt: does T1/T2 really matter?

Postby BarbellDreams » Fri Dec 28, 2012 1:26 am

Tiago Splitter wrote:
BarbellDreams wrote:
Tiago Splitter wrote:
BarbellDreams wrote:If you get into Temple, have in state and a half ride you're total CoA will be under 50K. I'll take that.

A half ride at Temple, even off in-state tuition, will leave someone who debt finances the whole thing up around 100K debt when repayment starts. Only way to keep it under 50K would be to have all living expenses covered.


It'll actually be around 65K-70 including 2 year interest as well as the overexaggerated living expenses schools always cite. You can easily keep it to the lower end of that range as long as you don't decide to live large: http://www.law.temple.edu/pages/Prospec ... dance.aspx

So no, not 100K, and yes, I would take that.


A half ride doesn't mean half off of tuition and living expenses. 10K in tuition and 15K in living expenses, which is far below the school's quoted cost of living, puts you at about 90K when repayment starts.


1. I was estimating based on half of CoA, not just tuition.

2. The math isn't adding up for me if we're talking 25K/year @ 6.8% interest that somehow leads to 90K. Do you mean repayment as in 9 months after graduation? If so, that may answer my question. My math is putting you at around 84K at graduation. But either way, I was talking about half of CoA so its moot.

User avatar
Tiago Splitter
Posts: 15495
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:20 am

Re: Non-Biglaw, minimum debt: does T1/T2 really matter?

Postby Tiago Splitter » Fri Dec 28, 2012 1:44 am

I'm using the Georgetown calculator which looks at debt when repayment starts, but 84K vs. 90K isn't meaningful. The real point is that without a full ride or a way to avoid most living expenses these costs skyrocket quickly over three years.




Return to “Choosing a Law School”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest