Catholic vs Michigan State? (Both $$)

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doglover0702
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Catholic vs Michigan State? (Both $$)

Postby doglover0702 » Sat Dec 08, 2012 12:25 pm

I'm still waiting to hear from a few schools, but I got half scholarship offers from both Michigan State and Catholic U. What are the pros and cons of both? I lived in DC for a while and LOVED it, but there are so many law schools there. Michigan terrifies me because I feel like it just keeps getting more desolate every year. But both schools seem like good options, aside from those factors.

I'm not planning on doing big law: I want to go into public interest/advocacy.

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wbrother
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Re: Catholic vs Michigan State? (Both $$)

Postby wbrother » Sat Dec 08, 2012 1:23 pm

doglover0702 wrote:I'm still waiting to hear from a few schools, but I got half scholarship offers from both Michigan State and Catholic U. What are the pros and cons of both? I lived in DC for a while and LOVED it, but there are so many law schools there. Michigan terrifies me because I feel like it just keeps getting more desolate every year. But both schools seem like good options, aside from those factors.

I'm not planning on doing big law: I want to go into public interest/advocacy.

Someone more knowledgable than me should respond, but I'll give it a go. MSU would be my choice. There is way less competition then in DC, but the competition is coming from a higher ranked school. I think with half scholarships from both MSU would be a lot cheaper too. Consider tuition and COL for both schools. What other schools are you waiting for?

I also want to be the first to suggest retake, even though I won't follow my own advice.

lovelaw27
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Re: Catholic vs Michigan State? (Both $$)

Postby lovelaw27 » Sat Dec 08, 2012 3:52 pm

Do you really want to take this gamble?

Class 2011

MSU 44.2% of graduates were known to be employed in long-term, full-time legal jobs.
Catholic 43.7% of graduates were known to be employed in long-term, full-time legal jobs.

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BarbellDreams
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Re: Catholic vs Michigan State? (Both $$)

Postby BarbellDreams » Sat Dec 08, 2012 3:58 pm

Retake by a mile. If I have a gun to my head I go MSU easily though. You will have zero chance to find a job with a Catholic degree in DC unless you're well connected or are top 10%/LR. At MSU, assuming you are willing to work in MI and make 40K for the rest of your life there are at least SOME options (though many graduate unemployed.

To reiterate: RETAKE.

rad lulz
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Re: Catholic vs Michigan State? (Both $$)

Postby rad lulz » Sat Dec 08, 2012 3:59 pm

Retake or don't go.

doglover0702
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Re: Catholic vs Michigan State? (Both $$)

Postby doglover0702 » Sat Dec 08, 2012 4:15 pm

While I understand that the apparent common consensus among people in these forums is to go to a top 10 school or bust, I didn't ask for opinions on whether to retake or not.

Does anyone have anything to say about whether one school is better for public interest?

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deadpanic
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Re: Catholic vs Michigan State? (Both $$)

Postby deadpanic » Sat Dec 08, 2012 4:20 pm

You realize public interest is competitive too? And you will still have to pay off your loans? (Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think either of these schools has any kind of deferred payments for PI jobs).

If you are absolutely that stubborn to attend law school this year, MSU. Just be prepared to stick around Michigan for the rest of your life.

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Robespierre
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Re: Catholic vs Michigan State? (Both $$)

Postby Robespierre » Sat Dec 08, 2012 4:41 pm

Where do you want to practice? How are you going to pay for half tuition and living expenses?

lovelaw27
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Re: Catholic vs Michigan State? (Both $$)

Postby lovelaw27 » Sat Dec 08, 2012 4:54 pm

doglover0702 wrote:While I understand that the apparent common consensus among people in these forums is to go to a top 10 school or bust, I didn't ask for opinions on whether to retake or not.

Does anyone have anything to say about whether one school is better for public interest?


Class of 2011

MSU 2.5% of graduates in employed in public interest.
Catholic 1.9% of graduates in employed in public interest.

It is important to keep in mind that more than 50% of the students from these schools couldn't even land a document review job.

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BarbellDreams
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Re: Catholic vs Michigan State? (Both $$)

Postby BarbellDreams » Sat Dec 08, 2012 5:20 pm

doglover0702 wrote:While I understand that the apparent common consensus among people in these forums is to go to a top 10 school or bust, I didn't ask for opinions on whether to retake or not.

Does anyone have anything to say about whether one school is better for public interest?


No one is talking top 10 or bust bro, but you gotta do better than Catholic/MSU. Public interest is extremely competitive given the economy right now. In your average DA/PD office they are getting around 150 apps for each spot. If you're so stubborn that you refuse to retake or pay any attention to research, statistics and, well, facts, then go to MSU, realize you have less than a 10% chance to ever make above 50K or leave MI and less than a 50% chance of being employed at graduation. If those odds sound good to you, good luck. I have a friend who goes to MSU right now, has an offer and really likes it and his roommate actually nabbed biglaw...he also has dozens of friends who have nothing lined up. To each their own. I predict you're gonna lol at yourself really hard 3 years from now for going to either school.

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Nova
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Re: Catholic vs Michigan State? (Both $$)

Postby Nova » Sat Dec 08, 2012 5:59 pm

lovelaw27 wrote:Do you really want to take this gamble?

Class 2011

MSU 44.2% of graduates were known to be employed in long-term, full-time legal jobs.
Catholic 43.7% of graduates were known to be employed in long-term, full-time legal jobs.


This.

Plus, if the Catholic Stttips are the same as last year, you have to be top 25% to keep it. Meaning there is about a 75% chance you will be paying sticker at a school with bad job prospects in a saturated market. DONT GO THERE.

Idk what the curve is at MSU, but 3.0 could be as high as top half, so you would have a 50% chance of paying sticker at a school with bad job prospects in a shitty market. DONT GO THERE.

Retake the LSAT. Pick a school that dominates its market for cheap. Both the options you have now are more likely than not financial suicide.

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somewhatwayward
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Re: Catholic vs Michigan State? (Both $$)

Postby somewhatwayward » Sun Dec 09, 2012 12:45 pm

I am also a dog lover, so I like the name! What kind do you have?

The people in this thread are not trolling you, though. Wanting to do public interest is not a reason to go to a school with bad employment outcomes. As many have mentioned, it can be pretty hard to get public interest unless you go to a top-tier school because public interest hiring takes account of prestige as well. What type of public interest do you want? Public interest is a broad term.

ashleydy10
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Re: Catholic vs Michigan State? (Both $$)

Postby ashleydy10 » Fri Dec 28, 2012 1:17 am

doglover0702 wrote:I'm still waiting to hear from a few schools, but I got half scholarship offers from both Michigan State and Catholic U. What are the pros and cons of both? I lived in DC for a while and LOVED it, but there are so many law schools there. Michigan terrifies me because I feel like it just keeps getting more desolate every year. But both schools seem like good options, aside from those factors.

I'm not planning on doing big law: I want to go into public interest/advocacy.



I am in the same EXACT situation. In at MSU with 50% and Catholic U at 50%

Also in a LSU with in state tuition granted (i am from FL so in state tuition was a scholarship award), plus 25% in addition to that.

Decisions, decisions. ... TERRIFIED of the cold weather. Seems like something small to be worried about- if you have grown up in the cold- but for a FL girl like me, anything below 40 and im miserable.

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Nova
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Re: Catholic vs Michigan State? (Both $$)

Postby Nova » Fri Dec 28, 2012 1:21 am

Aside from retaking, LSU is the best option you have.

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Grazzhoppa
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Re: Catholic vs Michigan State? (Both $$)

Postby Grazzhoppa » Fri Dec 28, 2012 1:23 am

Why do you fear the retake? The LSAT is not that hard and is actually fun to study for once you get into it. You have literally nothing to lose and EVERYTHING to gain.

ashleydy10
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Re: Catholic vs Michigan State? (Both $$)

Postby ashleydy10 » Fri Dec 28, 2012 1:42 am

Nova wrote:Aside from retaking, LSU is the best option you have.



Im a liking LSU. Definitely not retaking the LSAT because there is no need for that. I did well.

ashleydy10
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Re: Catholic vs Michigan State? (Both $$)

Postby ashleydy10 » Fri Dec 28, 2012 1:43 am

Grazzhoppa wrote:Why do you fear the retake? The LSAT is not that hard and is actually fun to study for once you get into it. You have literally nothing to lose and EVERYTHING to gain.



not sure who you were responding to. I dont fear a retake, i am just not doing it. I did well on my LSAT.

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Nova
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Re: Catholic vs Michigan State? (Both $$)

Postby Nova » Fri Dec 28, 2012 2:04 am

ashleydy10 wrote:
Nova wrote:Aside from retaking, LSU is the best option you have.



Im a liking LSU. Definitely not retaking the LSAT because there is no need for that. I did well.

You read this thread, yes?

You would be crazy to go to Catholic. Its the 4th best school in a saturated market. Less than half their grads become lawyers.

You would be crazy to go to MSU. Its the 3rd best law school in a state that is struggling. Less than half their grads become lawyers.

Both schools scholarship stipulations make it more likely than not you will lose your scholarship and end up over paying.

timbs4339
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Re: Catholic vs Michigan State? (Both $$)

Postby timbs4339 » Fri Dec 28, 2012 2:28 am

ashleydy10 wrote:
Grazzhoppa wrote:Why do you fear the retake? The LSAT is not that hard and is actually fun to study for once you get into it. You have literally nothing to lose and EVERYTHING to gain.



not sure who you were responding to. I dont fear a retake, i am just not doing it. I did well on my LSAT.


You've done well on the LSAT when it can get you into a school/money combination that makes financial sense. Neither of these schools make sense at that price.

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ndirish2010
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Re: Catholic vs Michigan State? (Both $$)

Postby ndirish2010 » Fri Dec 28, 2012 7:05 am

Seriously, what is wrong with people? Have you not seen what happens to people at these schools? Just listen to people talking sense. I have a good friend who is a 3L at Catholic in the top 25% and he is about to graduate unemployed. Same for the majority of his class. I wouldn't go there if you paid me at this point. MSU is only slightly better, but I would only go there for free and if you have some preexisting ties to Michigan.

ashleydy10
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Re: Catholic vs Michigan State? (Both $$)

Postby ashleydy10 » Fri Dec 28, 2012 9:53 am

Okay well, I was under the impression that this website was a way for students to get some real advice on options. Clearly it is venting system for some very unfortunate students who are simply not happy with the decisions they themselves have made. When someone says I have either A or B as an option and you have the opinion of neither, you are neither helping nor contributing anything positive. Why then do you feel the need to speak?

I've spent the last four years of my life working in a law firm. If that has not convinced me to turn around and not head to law school, you surely wont.

Good day and dont bother responding, because I promise you wont hear from me.

I sincerely hope you both find something better to occupy your time with.

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Blessedassurance
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Re: Catholic vs Michigan State? (Both $$)

Postby Blessedassurance » Fri Dec 28, 2012 10:16 am

You'll be greatly missed. Your contribution to the intellectual evolution of public discourse on the interwebs will not be forgotten.

timbs4339
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Re: Catholic vs Michigan State? (Both $$)

Postby timbs4339 » Fri Dec 28, 2012 10:27 am

ashleydy10 wrote:Okay well, I was under the impression that this website was a way for students to get some real advice on options. Clearly it is venting system for some very unfortunate students who are simply not happy with the decisions they themselves have made. When someone says I have either A or B as an option and you have the opinion of neither, you are neither helping nor contributing anything positive. Why then do you feel the need to speak?

I've spent the last four years of my life working in a law firm. If that has not convinced me to turn around and not head to law school, you surely wont.

Good day and dont bother responding, because I promise you wont hear from me.

I sincerely hope you both find something better to occupy your time with.


30.3423% of law students previously worked at a law firm. That doesn't mean they don't make shitty investment decisions just like everyone else.

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banjo
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Re: Catholic vs Michigan State? (Both $$)

Postby banjo » Fri Dec 28, 2012 10:34 am

ashleydy10 wrote:Okay well, I was under the impression that this website was a way for students to get some real advice on options. Clearly it is venting system for some very unfortunate students who are simply not happy with the decisions they themselves have made. When someone says I have either A or B as an option and you have the opinion of neither, you are neither helping nor contributing anything positive. Why then do you feel the need to speak?

I've spent the last four years of my life working in a law firm. If that has not convinced me to turn around and not head to law school, you surely wont.

Good day and dont bother responding, because I promise you wont hear from me.

I sincerely hope you both find something better to occupy your time with.


Threads like this one convinced me to retake a 164 to a 176. Now if I wanted to live in Michigan or DC, I could probably pick between U Mich and Georgetown. Also, your second paragraph is attacking a straw man; very few people here are against going to any law school at all. They are telling you to go to better ones that offer a better future for you, or at least a strong regional with a large scholarship.

BigZuck
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Re: Catholic vs Michigan State? (Both $$)

Postby BigZuck » Fri Dec 28, 2012 11:21 am

Going to add to the retake advice. Last cycle I was looking at schools similar to these. I took the LSAT twice since then, scored 6+ points higher and now have multiple T14 acceptances and scholarships ranging between half and full rides to other schools ranked in the top 20. Nothing else has changed. GPA still the same, still working the same (crappy) job. All I had to do was take some dumb test two more times and get about 12 more questions right and my situation is world's better than it was last year at this time.

Retake!




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