Best (non-HYS) Schools for Academia

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

Best Non-HYS Program for Academia

Columbia
44
24%
NYU
18
10%
Chicago
75
41%
Berkeley
14
8%
Penn
6
3%
Cornell
6
3%
Northwestern
2
1%
Duke
1
1%
Michigan
11
6%
UVA/GULC/UCLA
6
3%
 
Total votes: 183

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bizzybone1313
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Re: Best (non-HYS) Schools for Academia

Postby bizzybone1313 » Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:25 am

Paul Campos, you should use this as your next blog post. How |0L's have dreams of academia with their law degree from a TTT. Lol.

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Doorkeeper
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Re: Best (non-HYS) Schools for Academia

Postby Doorkeeper » Wed Dec 05, 2012 2:57 pm

Chicago for JD/PhD in Economics.
NYU for JD/PhD in Philosophy.

If you just had to do straight up JD, given your philosophy interests, I would go NYU. They have been putting huge institutional resources behind improving placement.

Columbia is a distant third after these two.

bk1 wrote:
John_rizzy_rawls wrote:viable career option.

Being a law prof is not in fact a "viable career option" for anybody in the place of a 0L. Few people even from HYS end up as law profs. This is like saying that biglaw is a viable career option for people who attend a T4.

HYS has 40-50% placement every year of candidates who enter the market. If you show an adamant interest and the administration gets behind you, you should actually not have a problem placing somewhere so long as you have a publication or two under your belt come Meat Market time.

WhirledWorld wrote:The premise behind this poll is ridiculous. The law school you attend makes little to no difference in academia placement. What matters is the quality of your publishing. You can be #1 at Yale, EIC of the journal, clerking for the supreme court, and you will still not be hired anywhere until you've proven you can contribute and have contributed (no less than two times post-graduation) to the scholarly conversation.

This is not true at all. Prestige matters a huge deal in academia hiring. What school you attend, what journals you publish in, which faculty are recommending you, and what clerkships you have definitely play a factor.

Also, your hypo is patently untrue. That Yale grad will get hired if they have a research plan and currently have a paper that they are submitting for publication.

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Doorkeeper
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Re: Best (non-HYS) Schools for Academia

Postby Doorkeeper » Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:00 pm

Br3v wrote:So if a school graduates 12, or 5, or however many professors, is it safe to assume those students were roughly the top 12, or 5, or however many students in the class?

No. Grades are an indication, and can be helpful when it comes to landing clerkships, but faculty recommendations and scholarship matter more for hiring purposes.

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Br3v
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Re: Best (non-HYS) Schools for Academia

Postby Br3v » Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:11 pm

Doorkeeper wrote:
Br3v wrote:So if a school graduates 12, or 5, or however many professors, is it safe to assume those students were roughly the top 12, or 5, or however many students in the class?

No. Grades are an indication, and can be helpful when it comes to landing clerkships, but faculty recommendations and scholarship matter more for hiring purposes.


Really? (Not sarcastic question) There has to be a point where this doesn't hold though correct? Someone in the bottom quarter of the class with outstanding work/recs wouldn't have a better shot than someone at the top of the class with just "some" work would they? I understand part of this is explained through correlation, as in someone with great work/recs will not tend to be far from the front of the class.

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dingbat
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Re: Best (non-HYS) Schools for Academia

Postby dingbat » Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:13 pm

Doorkeeper wrote:
Br3v wrote:So if a school graduates 12, or 5, or however many professors, is it safe to assume those students were roughly the top 12, or 5, or however many students in the class?

No. Grades are an indication, and can be helpful when it comes to landing clerkships, but faculty recommendations and scholarship matter more for hiring purposes.

It also doesn't take into consideration the top graduates who have no interest in academia

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Doorkeeper
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Re: Best (non-HYS) Schools for Academia

Postby Doorkeeper » Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:18 pm

Br3v wrote:
Doorkeeper wrote:
Br3v wrote:So if a school graduates 12, or 5, or however many professors, is it safe to assume those students were roughly the top 12, or 5, or however many students in the class?

No. Grades are an indication, and can be helpful when it comes to landing clerkships, but faculty recommendations and scholarship matter more for hiring purposes.


Really? (Not sarcastic question) There has to be a point where this doesn't hold though correct? Someone in the bottom quarter of the class with outstanding work/recs wouldn't have a better shot than someone at the top of the class with just "some" work would they? I understand part of this is explained through correlation, as in someone with great work/recs will not tend to be far from the front of the class.

You can generally assume that the student did well, but there isn't a direct correlation between grades and placement independent of the things that grades can get you (Law Review, Clerkship, etc).

Factors that matter for academic hiring: 1) Publishing [Quality and Quantity], 2) Research Agenda, 3) Faculty Recommendations, 4) Prior Experience, 5) Signalling [Law School, Law Review, Clerkship], 6) Courses you can teach.

Grades only matter to the extent that they influence any of the above factors. They are not, in and of themselves, valuable.

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Br3v
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Re: Best (non-HYS) Schools for Academia

Postby Br3v » Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:19 pm

dingbat wrote:
Doorkeeper wrote:
Br3v wrote:So if a school graduates 12, or 5, or however many professors, is it safe to assume those students were roughly the top 12, or 5, or however many students in the class?

No. Grades are an indication, and can be helpful when it comes to landing clerkships, but faculty recommendations and scholarship matter more for hiring purposes.

It also doesn't take into consideration the top graduates who have no interest in academia


Intended "roughly" to account for that because I was unsure as to what the proper coefficient would be.

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Richie Tenenbaum
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Re: Best (non-HYS) Schools for Academia

Postby Richie Tenenbaum » Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:37 pm

Doorkeeper wrote:You can generally assume that the student did well, but there isn't a direct correlation between grades and placement independent of the things that grades can get you (Law Review, Clerkship, etc).

Factors that matter for academic hiring: 1) Publishing [Quality and Quantity], 2) Research Agenda, 3) Faculty Recommendations, 4) Prior Experience, 5) Signalling [Law School, Law Review, Clerkship], 6) Courses you can teach.

Grades only matter to the extent that they influence any of the above factors. They are not, in and of themselves, valuable.


Very well said.

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Br3v
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Re: Best (non-HYS) Schools for Academia

Postby Br3v » Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:01 pm

yes thank you for that input Doorkeeper.

In regards to #2 and #6. Is there generally a consensus as to which fields are relativley "easier" to break into? For example I imagine everyone is interested in Con law.

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Doorkeeper
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Re: Best (non-HYS) Schools for Academia

Postby Doorkeeper » Wed Dec 05, 2012 5:20 pm

Br3v wrote:yes thank you for that input Doorkeeper.

In regards to #2 and #6. Is there generally a consensus as to which fields are relativley "easier" to break into? For example I imagine everyone is interested in Con law.

Tax. Bankruptcy. Anything necessitating an Economics PhD. Property.

Generally speaking, anything in private law is easier than anything in public law.

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John_rizzy_rawls
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Re: Best (non-HYS) Schools for Academia

Postby John_rizzy_rawls » Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:06 pm

Lots of good insight here. Thanks.

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Bildungsroman
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Re: Best (non-HYS) Schools for Academia

Postby Bildungsroman » Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:18 am

John_rizzy_rawls wrote:Lots of good insight here. Thanks.

A lot of 1Ls debating legal faculty hiring? Yeah, super valuable.

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Br3v
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Re: Best (non-HYS) Schools for Academia

Postby Br3v » Thu Dec 06, 2012 1:01 am

Bildungsroman wrote:
John_rizzy_rawls wrote:Lots of good insight here. Thanks.

A lot of 1Ls debating legal faculty hiring? Yeah, super valuable.


Please enlighten us. For real though.

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Richie Tenenbaum
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Re: Best (non-HYS) Schools for Academia

Postby Richie Tenenbaum » Thu Dec 06, 2012 1:30 am

Bildungsroman wrote:
John_rizzy_rawls wrote:Lots of good insight here. Thanks.

A lot of 1Ls debating legal faculty hiring? Yeah, super valuable.


?

Most of the people in this thread offering their take on legal hiring are 2Ls or 3Ls.

Kurst
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Re: Best (non-HYS) Schools for Academia

Postby Kurst » Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:44 am

Richie Tenenbaum wrote:
Bildungsroman wrote:
John_rizzy_rawls wrote:Lots of good insight here. Thanks.

A lot of 1Ls debating legal faculty hiring? Yeah, super valuable.

?

Most of the people in this thread offering their take on legal hiring are 2Ls or 3Ls.

Law students are not exactly fountains of wisdom. Anyone pursuing a career in pilfering public dollars legal academia should consult the people who found their way to the ivory tower: law professors.

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Richie Tenenbaum
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Re: Best (non-HYS) Schools for Academia

Postby Richie Tenenbaum » Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:54 am

Kurst wrote:
Richie Tenenbaum wrote:
Bildungsroman wrote:
John_rizzy_rawls wrote:Lots of good insight here. Thanks.

A lot of 1Ls debating legal faculty hiring? Yeah, super valuable.

?

Most of the people in this thread offering their take on legal hiring are 2Ls or 3Ls.

Law students are not exactly fountains of wisdom. Anyone pursuing a career in pilfering public dollars legal academia should consult the people who found their way to the ivory tower: law professors.


Good article. I agree 100% that a person interested in academia should be trying to read as much as possible about it and talking to multiple professors about it. I've spent a lot of time doing both of those things.

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John_rizzy_rawls
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Re: Best (non-HYS) Schools for Academia

Postby John_rizzy_rawls » Thu Dec 06, 2012 5:28 am

Kurst wrote:
Richie Tenenbaum wrote:
Bildungsroman wrote:
John_rizzy_rawls wrote:Lots of good insight here. Thanks.

A lot of 1Ls debating legal faculty hiring? Yeah, super valuable.

?

Most of the people in this thread offering their take on legal hiring are 2Ls or 3Ls.

Law students are not exactly fountains of wisdom. Anyone pursuing a career in pilfering public dollars legal academia should consult the people who found their way to the ivory tower: law professors.


As opposed to actively pilfering private dollars via entrepreneurial loophole seeking or providing justice to the highest bidder private practice? Alrighty.

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dextermorgan
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Re: Best (non-HYS) Schools for Academia

Postby dextermorgan » Thu Dec 06, 2012 10:00 am

What about Northwestern's JD/PhD? Isn't it specifically designed for this? Shitty results?

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John_rizzy_rawls
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Re: Best (non-HYS) Schools for Academia

Postby John_rizzy_rawls » Thu Dec 06, 2012 10:07 am

dextermorgan wrote:What about Northwestern's JD/PhD? Isn't it specifically designed for this? Shitty results?


Leiter says they're making more of a push to get their grads into academia but historically they don't place very well. Even less so than GULC and UVA. That at change in a few years though, as it has with NYU.




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