ND at sticker?

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kdev1203
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ND at sticker?

Postby kdev1203 » Sat Dec 01, 2012 10:12 pm

What do y'all think? I'm in love with the school, and the employment prospects seem reasonable.

Thoughts?

09042014
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Re: ND at sticker?

Postby 09042014 » Sat Dec 01, 2012 10:13 pm

Not reasonable enough for a quarter million in debt.

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dextermorgan
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Re: ND at sticker?

Postby dextermorgan » Sat Dec 01, 2012 10:15 pm

You are paying $225,000 at 7% interest for a 62% chance at finding a job.

Don't do it.

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justonemoregame
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Re: ND at sticker?

Postby justonemoregame » Sat Dec 01, 2012 10:16 pm

If you're in love with the school, then yes, it's a great decision. Don't let others on here troll you about placement. What goes up must come down, if you're going UP to Notre Dame, then you'll land somewhere.

A lot of people giving advice in these threads ask others: what do you want? Well, it's clear what you want. So go grab life by the horns.

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XxSpyKEx
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Re: ND at sticker?

Postby XxSpyKEx » Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:22 am

justonemoregame wrote:If you're in love with the school, then yes, it's a great decision. Don't let others on here troll you about placement. What goes up must come down, if you're going UP to Notre Dame, then you'll land somewhere.

A lot of people giving advice in these threads ask others: what do you want? Well, it's clear what you want. So go grab life by the horns.


What a terrible, complete lack of any basis in facts, statistics, or reasoning, post. Basic common sense suggests spending a quarter million dollars because "you'll land somewhere," such as Starbucks, is not "great decision" by any means. Why not just take that quarter million dollars and invest in stocks, or even a house? Odds are better than 62% there that your investment will return some kind of a profit over the course of your lifetime. (Actually, 62% is an overstatement because with that kind of debt at 7-8% interest, you need more than just some legal job, and most likely a biglaw job, if you want your law school investment to return a profit in the next decade or so).

dkb17xzx
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Re: ND at sticker?

Postby dkb17xzx » Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:37 am

justonemoregame wrote:If you're in love with the school, then yes, it's a great decision. Don't let others on here troll you about placement. What goes up must come down, if you're going UP to Notre Dame, then you'll land somewhere.

A lot of people giving advice in these threads ask others: what do you want? Well, it's clear what you want. So go grab life by the horns.



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rad lulz
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Re: ND at sticker?

Postby rad lulz » Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:55 am

kdev1203 wrote:What do y'all think? I'm in love with the school, and the employment prospects seem reasonable.

Thoughts?

Image

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Tom Joad
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Re: ND at sticker?

Postby Tom Joad » Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:57 am

#1 in the BCS doesn't mean #1 employment prospects.

Total Litigator
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Re: ND at sticker?

Postby Total Litigator » Mon Dec 03, 2012 5:05 am

The unfortunate fact is that the sticker prices of law schools are overinflated as the result of the growing financial aid bubble. The sad truth is that probably that not even most admitted students actually end up paying the sticker price and the sticker price certainly is not reflective of what the product is actually worth. Sadly, law schools will keep charging the same outrageous prices until people like you and me refuse to pay them.

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dingbat
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Re: ND at sticker?

Postby dingbat » Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:40 am

There are only a handful of schools worth attending at sticker (excluding particular circumstances). Exactly how far down the list depends a lot on personal circumstances. do your personal circumstances warrant an expanded list? If not, don't do it.

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justonemoregame
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Re: ND at sticker?

Postby justonemoregame » Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:18 am

XxSpyKEx wrote:
justonemoregame wrote:If you're in love with the school, then yes, it's a great decision. Don't let others on here troll you about placement. What goes up must come down, if you're going UP to Notre Dame, then you'll land somewhere.

A lot of people giving advice in these threads ask others: what do you want? Well, it's clear what you want. So go grab life by the horns.


What a terrible, complete lack of any basis in facts, statistics, or reasoning, post. Basic common sense suggests spending a quarter million dollars because "you'll land somewhere," such as Starbucks, is not "great decision" by any means. Why not just take that quarter million dollars and invest in stocks, or even a house? Odds are better than 62% there that your investment will return some kind of a profit over the course of your lifetime. (Actually, 62% is an overstatement because with that kind of debt at 7-8% interest, you need more than just some legal job, and most likely a biglaw job, if you want your law school investment to return a profit in the next decade or so).


Well, the reason you can't just take it and invest it in some other manner is because the US government isn't likely to give it to you.

What OP is looking for here is not anything you can represent with statistics or fact. He/she has already looked at that (employment data) and we can assume they're capable of basic math, so they know the "price" of attending Notre Dame without scholarship.

What OP is looking for is the moral go-ahead to make a decision that is clearly terrible from a stand alone investment standpoint. But, OP is not alone. I mean, what are the odds that OP will be the only person paying this debt back? 10-15%?

Most likely, they will be on IBR + PAYE + potentially PLSF, and the bulk of the burden will be shifted to taxpayers. The question then is whether or not you're comfortable shifting the burden. Many people are not only comfortable with that, they are comfortable with allowing 22 year-olds to final stamp the underwriting.

The other part of this that people forget is that Americans are just different, ya know? What we want is a big part of the equation. Prudence and need are just funny things you read about in the CNN international section. I'm sure there are many reasons to fall in love with Notre Dame, and OP has apparently done so, so you guys stop interrupting a good love story.

Big Dog
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Re: ND at sticker?

Postby Big Dog » Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:27 am

What OP is looking for is the moral go-ahead to make a decision that is clearly terrible....

Most likely, they will be on IBR + PAYE + potentially PLSF, and the bulk of the burden will be shifted to taxpayers.


Not sure what your definition of morality is, but attending ND withe primary aim of shifting debt to taxpayers is not "moral" in my book. Besides the taxpayers, the OP is not off easily. Such debt will eliminate the opportunity for a mortgage (unless the taxpayers will provide that, too?), it will put phenomenal strains on a future spouse...

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dowu
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Re: ND at sticker?

Postby dowu » Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:36 am

justonemoregame wrote:
XxSpyKEx wrote:
justonemoregame wrote:If you're in love with the school, then yes, it's a great decision. Don't let others on here troll you about placement. What goes up must come down, if you're going UP to Notre Dame, then you'll land somewhere.

A lot of people giving advice in these threads ask others: what do you want? Well, it's clear what you want. So go grab life by the horns.


What a terrible, complete lack of any basis in facts, statistics, or reasoning, post. Basic common sense suggests spending a quarter million dollars because "you'll land somewhere," such as Starbucks, is not "great decision" by any means. Why not just take that quarter million dollars and invest in stocks, or even a house? Odds are better than 62% there that your investment will return some kind of a profit over the course of your lifetime. (Actually, 62% is an overstatement because with that kind of debt at 7-8% interest, you need more than just some legal job, and most likely a biglaw job, if you want your law school investment to return a profit in the next decade or so).


Well, the reason you can't just take it and invest it in some other manner is because the US government isn't likely to give it to you.

What OP is looking for here is not anything you can represent with statistics or fact. He/she has already looked at that (employment data) and we can assume they're capable of basic math, so they know the "price" of attending Notre Dame without scholarship.

What OP is looking for is the moral go-ahead to make a decision that is clearly terrible from a stand alone investment standpoint. But, OP is not alone. I mean, what are the odds that OP will be the only person paying this debt back? 10-15%?

Most likely, they will be on IBR + PAYE + potentially PLSF, and the bulk of the burden will be shifted to taxpayers. The question then is whether or not you're comfortable shifting the burden. Many people are not only comfortable with that, they are comfortable with allowing 22 year-olds to final stamp the underwriting.

The other part of this that people forget is that Americans are just different, ya know? What we want is a big part of the equation. Prudence and need are just funny things you read about in the CNN international section. I'm sure there are many reasons to fall in love with Notre Dame, and OP has apparently done so, so you guys stop interrupting a good love story.

What the fuck did I just read?

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dingbat
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Re: ND at sticker?

Postby dingbat » Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:41 am

nmop_apisdn wrote:What the fuck did I just read?

The kind of brilliance you only wish you had

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justonemoregame
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Re: ND at sticker?

Postby justonemoregame » Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:44 am

You're reading about the wave of the future, so grab your board.

IBR, PAYE, PSLF --> your dreams can come true, so roll the dice and let the neighbors pick up the tab. It's what they're there for.

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dowu
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Re: ND at sticker?

Postby dowu » Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:05 pm

dingbat wrote:
nmop_apisdn wrote:What the fuck did I just read?

The kind of brilliance you only wish you had

Nah, it sounded like some Kodak moment wanna-be pipe dream. Taking on 225k worth of debt with a 7% interest rate for a crummy chance at a JD required job sounds insane, and this alone is the reason why I decided to forgo attending law school.

If you have your mind made up, OP, at least try to negotiate some scholarship money. Give them a bottom line and see what happens.

Good luck!

ETA: just realized dingbat was being sarcastic. No brilliant person would advocate an arguably terrible decision.

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dingbat
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Re: ND at sticker?

Postby dingbat » Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:17 pm

nmop_apisdn wrote:just realized dingbat was being sarcastic. No brilliant person would advocate an arguably terrible decision.

So close, and yet so far

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dowu
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Re: ND at sticker?

Postby dowu » Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:20 pm

dingbat wrote:
nmop_apisdn wrote:just realized dingbat was being sarcastic. No brilliant person would advocate an arguably terrible decision.

So close, and yet so far

Hmmm, the only other thing I can think of is this dude advocating going in order to sabotage OP, and you think his flame is brilliant.

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Icculus
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Re: ND at sticker?

Postby Icculus » Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:22 pm

dingbat wrote:
nmop_apisdn wrote:just realized dingbat was being sarcastic. No brilliant person would advocate an arguably terrible decision.

So close, and yet so far


I like where this is headed.

OP, I'm with justonemoregame here, I mean, if you really LOVE ND what's a quarter of a million dollars?

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laxbrah420
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Re: ND at sticker?

Postby laxbrah420 » Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:23 pm

justonemoregame wrote:You're reading about the wave of the future, so grab your board.

IBR, PAYE, PSLF --> your dreams can come true, so roll the dice and let the neighbors pick up the tab. It's what they're there for.

Damn fucking straight. Life's a garden, dig it.

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minnbills
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Re: ND at sticker?

Postby minnbills » Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:32 pm

Are we talking about Notre Dame or North Dakota?

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dowu
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Re: ND at sticker?

Postby dowu » Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:33 pm

I see what's going on here...

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dowu
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Re: ND at sticker?

Postby dowu » Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:35 pm

minnbills wrote:Are we talking about Notre Dame or North Dakota?

Clearly North Dakota. I'd take Notre Dame at 260k with interest any day.

timbs4339
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Re: ND at sticker?

Postby timbs4339 » Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:42 pm

Yes, rely on a program that is going to shift the burden to taxpayers...in 20 years, when all of us will presumably be at the high end of our earning curve. Boomers get paid though. Looks like we have to come up with some new and inventive ways to screw over our kids.

kdev1203
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Re: ND at sticker?

Postby kdev1203 » Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:55 pm

Eesh. What have I started, here?

1. Yes, I'm talking about Notre Dame.

2. Where are y'all getting a quarter million in debt from? COA is 64K (which, as we all know, can be slashed by at least 5-10K with air rewards cards, roommates, careful planning, etc.) x 3 = 192K. Am I missing something?




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