Evaluating T3 Scholarship Offer

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seancris
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Evaluating T3 Scholarship Offer

Postby seancris » Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:27 pm

Looking for some different perspectives on my situation.

My numbers are 166/4.0. Retook the LSAT before, done with that. Will be attending LS in 2013.

Just got a scholarship offer to Stetson which is full-tuition plus a 4k/yr stipend. Top 50% stip, and they don't appear to stack sections.

Looking at law school transparency, Stetson doesn't seem to do much worse than the T1 schools I'm considering. I'm very debt averse, and I've selected these schools on the basis of affordability plus regional prestige.

Here are a few employment numbers as an example:

Stetson: 53.4% full-time, JD required employment
UF: 58.7%
W&L: 55%
WM: 54.4%
Wake: 54.4%
UGA: 61.2%
FSU: 66.7%

Stetson's offer seems like it's going to leave me with the least amount of debt, quite possibly no debt at all, whereas the others may leave me with 50k+ and it seems they have similar employment rates.

What should I make of this offer?

ETA: I'm not thinking about biglaw, or anything like that. Ideally I'd like to be a prosecutor, city attorney, or do other government work.
Last edited by seancris on Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Rahviveh
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Re: Evaluating T3 Scholarship Offer

Postby Rahviveh » Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:33 pm

That stip makes the scholly worthless IMO, especially for a school with poor prospects like Stetson

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rinkrat19
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Re: Evaluating T3 Scholarship Offer

Postby rinkrat19 » Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:35 pm

See if you can get the stip removed, or reduced to "good academic standing." There is, after all, a 50% chance that you'd lose it, and Stetson isn't worth paying money for.

Are you ok with working in Florida? Do you have ties there? A Stetson degree isn't going to travel well.

usfvictor
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Re: Evaluating T3 Scholarship Offer

Postby usfvictor » Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:47 pm

i'd also ask to have the stip removed. my scholly(although considerably less than yours lol) from Stetson just states i need to maintain good academic standing. also if you like FL and Tampa in particular i'd say Stetson is a good choice.

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saintsfan200
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Re: Evaluating T3 Scholarship Offer

Postby saintsfan200 » Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:26 pm

ChampagnePapi wrote:at stip makes the scholly worthless IMO, especially for a school with poor prospects like Stetson


I don't think it matters. You should dropout if you're below 50% after 1L anyway.

I'd be surprised if you didn't get a decent offer from at least one of the other schools listed.

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Lincoln
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Re: Evaluating T3 Scholarship Offer

Postby Lincoln » Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:28 pm

saintsfan200 wrote:I'd be surprised if you didn't get a decent offer from at least one of the other schools listed.

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YankeesFan
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Re: Evaluating T3 Scholarship Offer

Postby YankeesFan » Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:30 pm

Wake is gonna give you cash money

rebexness
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Re: Evaluating T3 Scholarship Offer

Postby rebexness » Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:31 pm

Last edited by rebexness on Mon Feb 09, 2015 5:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ajax
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Re: Evaluating T3 Scholarship Offer

Postby ajax » Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:34 pm

Don't attend Stetson without getting that stip removed. If a school like Illinois was lying to the USNEWs, can you really trust a school like Stetson to not have professors doctor your grades a little bit? Don't attend a school that has a financial incentive for you to fail. If they really did care, they wouldn't have the stipulation.

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twenty
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Re: Evaluating T3 Scholarship Offer

Postby twenty » Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:39 pm

Alternative: ED to UVA. The new LRAP covers 100% of your loan payments up to 55k, and will cover on a prorated basis up to 75k.

/TLScivicduty

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Doorkeeper
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Re: Evaluating T3 Scholarship Offer

Postby Doorkeeper » Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:52 pm

With a 166/4.0, you'll get into somewhere in the T14, probably with some $$. Create those applications ASAP. UVA or Northwestern with $30-60k is a MUCH MUCH better choice than any of the schools you listed there.

Do not make the worst mistake of your life and go to Stetson.

See this chart:
http://myLSN.info/tobnz0

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seancris
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Re: Evaluating T3 Scholarship Offer

Postby seancris » Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:05 pm

Strongly agree with the input on the stip. Will try to get it removed. Most schools (all?) on that list do have performance stips, though. I'll make sure that I get answers about the percentage of scholarship recipients who have their scholarships revoked.

@Doorkeeper, that is an extremely helpful link. Will take a second look at GWU given those scholly numbers. Thanks!

What do you all think about the LST employment numbers being roughly equal? I hear a lot of negativity about Stetson due to the low ranking, but at the end of the day they seem to produce a similar number of grads getting full-time JD required work.

"Worst decision of your life" doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me when these numbers indicate that the end result - the employment picture - is the same and the debt level is a non-issue.

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Ruxin1
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Re: Evaluating T3 Scholarship Offer

Postby Ruxin1 » Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:10 pm

seancris wrote:Strongly agree with the input on the stip. Will try to get it removed. Most schools (all?) on that list do have performance stips, though. I'll make sure that I get answers about the percentage of scholarship recipients who have their scholarships revoked.

@Doorkeeper, that is an extremely helpful link. Will take a second look at GWU given those scholly numbers. Thanks!

What do you all think about the LST employment numbers being roughly equal? I hear a lot of negativity about Stetson due to the low ranking, but at the end of the day they seem to produce a similar number of grads getting full-time JD required work.

"Worst decision of your life" doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me when these numbers indicate that the end result - the employment picture - is the same and the debt level is a non-issue.


Not all JD required jobs are created equal...

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dextermorgan
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Re: Evaluating T3 Scholarship Offer

Postby dextermorgan » Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:10 pm

Most of the "performance stipulations" are essentially "good academic standing". Remember with the curve, you have to seriously fuck up to get below a 3.0 or whatever.

Also, I had worse numbers than you and I got decent offers at much more well respected schools. If you want Florida I'd take UF over Stetson even if you had to borrow CoL.

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Rahviveh
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Re: Evaluating T3 Scholarship Offer

Postby Rahviveh » Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:10 pm

seancris wrote:Strongly agree with the input on the stip. Will try to get it removed. Most schools (all?) on that list do have performance stips, though. I'll make sure that I get answers about the percentage of scholarship recipients who have their scholarships revoked.

@Doorkeeper, that is an extremely helpful link. Will take a second look at GWU given those scholly numbers. Thanks!

What do you all think about the LST employment numbers being roughly equal? I hear a lot of negativity about Stetson due to the low ranking, but at the end of the day they seem to produce a similar number of grads getting full-time JD required work.

"Worst decision of your life" doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me when these numbers indicate that the end result - the employment picture - is the same and the debt level is a non-issue.


Because the employment picture is equally awful for all these schools and you shouldn't limit yourself to them with those stats

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Robespierre
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Re: Evaluating T3 Scholarship Offer

Postby Robespierre » Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:52 pm

I don't know the first thing about Florida schools, so just ignore me if I'm offbase, but here are some questions you might want to ask:

- How can a TTT school burden a 4.0/166 applicant with an onerous scholarship stip like 50%? That should be removed immediately, and if they won't, don't give them a second look.

- You're right that Stetson's FTLTBR number is surprisingly competitive, but is that as important as you're making it? FSU's is better. And while we can't say the same about UF, UF's large firm and salary numbers are better, so their grads are getting better FTLTBR jobs.

- Are you a FL resident, and don't FSU and UF have low in-state tuition, and mightn't they throw in a small scholly? Thus, is Stetson really much cheaper?

- What about Duke and UVA? Don't they open doors in Florida? Shouldn't they be near the top of your list? Your numbers are good.

Gator_Law
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Re: Evaluating T3 Scholarship Offer

Postby Gator_Law » Tue Nov 27, 2012 7:26 pm

You will get a full ride (or close) at UF and FSU also so I'm not sure why you would go to Stetson

But go to a T14 please.

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seancris
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Re: Evaluating T3 Scholarship Offer

Postby seancris » Tue Nov 27, 2012 8:40 pm

A lot of you guys are pushing other schools, but I'm really just trying to evaluate Stetson's offer at this point.

But here are my thoughts on that conversation. Definitely point it out if you disagree with my reasoning on this.

Robespierre wrote:- Are you a FL resident, and don't FSU and UF have low in-state tuition, and mightn't they throw in a small scholly? Thus, is Stetson really much cheaper?


A lot of people are pointing this out, but the standard scholly for FSU is around 15k (nonrenewable). Their tuition is 19k, probably will be an average of 21k while I'm there. That's 63-15, or 48k for tuition alone. With loan fees and compounding, I'd borrow 55k in tuition. Give or take.

As for UF, their tuition already exceeds 21k annually. They are extremely stingy with scholarships, and didn't even offer me one last year with a marginally lower LSAT score. And they don't do full-rides. But let's assume a 35k scholly. If tuition is 23k on average during my time, that's 69-35, or 34k before loan fees and compounding. Roughly 40k all told? And that comes with a 3.2 stip, IIRC.

All versus zero at Stetson and the employment numbers come out close to even. If my goal is to become a prosecutor and practice in Florida, why would I borrow the extra money to go to UF/FSU?

- What about Duke and UVA? Don't they open doors in Florida? Shouldn't they be near the top of your list? Your numbers are good.


Not giving myself much of a chance at Duke or UVA, though I'd likely attend either if admitted. That's a lot of debt though, and I'd be perfectly happy as a prosecutor making 50k if my debt was low enough to accommodate that comfortably. T14 debt seems to require biglaw, which is simply not the reason I'm interested in this career.

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dextermorgan
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Re: Evaluating T3 Scholarship Offer

Postby dextermorgan » Tue Nov 27, 2012 8:48 pm

If you want to be a prosecutor in Florida, you should talk to as many as you can about which schools will best offer the opportunity. Government hiring is really hurting right now, and no one knows how it will be in three years. Looking at scholarships and cost alone may shut you out of the career you want.

Granfalloon12
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Re: Evaluating T3 Scholarship Offer

Postby Granfalloon12 » Tue Nov 27, 2012 8:52 pm

-- checking into this thread because I was offered a full ride at Drexel with a 3.0 stip (168/3.0) which is similar in many ways to your situation here (obviously I'm waiting to hear back from many other, better schools with hopefully decent offers, but still) --

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Rahviveh
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Re: Evaluating T3 Scholarship Offer

Postby Rahviveh » Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:10 pm

seancris wrote:A lot of you guys are pushing other schools, but I'm really just trying to evaluate Stetson's offer at this point.

But here are my thoughts on that conversation. Definitely point it out if you disagree with my reasoning on this.

Robespierre wrote:- Are you a FL resident, and don't FSU and UF have low in-state tuition, and mightn't they throw in a small scholly? Thus, is Stetson really much cheaper?


A lot of people are pointing this out, but the standard scholly for FSU is around 15k (nonrenewable). Their tuition is 19k, probably will be an average of 21k while I'm there. That's 63-15, or 48k for tuition alone. With loan fees and compounding, I'd borrow 55k in tuition. Give or take.

As for UF, their tuition already exceeds 21k annually. They are extremely stingy with scholarships, and didn't even offer me one last year with a marginally lower LSAT score. And they don't do full-rides. But let's assume a 35k scholly. If tuition is 23k on average during my time, that's 69-35, or 34k before loan fees and compounding. Roughly 40k all told? And that comes with a 3.2 stip, IIRC.

All versus zero at Stetson and the employment numbers come out close to even. If my goal is to become a prosecutor and practice in Florida, why would I borrow the extra money to go to UF/FSU?

- What about Duke and UVA? Don't they open doors in Florida? Shouldn't they be near the top of your list? Your numbers are good.


Not giving myself much of a chance at Duke or UVA, though I'd likely attend either if admitted. That's a lot of debt though, and I'd be perfectly happy as a prosecutor making 50k if my debt was low enough to accommodate that comfortably. T14 debt seems to require biglaw, which is simply not the reason I'm interested in this career.


You'd get into UVA with an ED. If you are PI or bust, they have great LRAP programs so T14 debt wouldn't require biglaw.

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2014
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Re: Evaluating T3 Scholarship Offer

Postby 2014 » Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:12 pm

If you are hypothetically limiting yourself to UF/FSU/Stetson which is a personal choice then you should go to whichever is cheapest considering everything. That includes COL as well as chances of retaining the scholarship. So in evaluating Stetson's scholarship, look at it as basically a half tuition scholarship since you have a 50% chance of losing it. I know you probably believe you will retain it and you probably will, but the rational thing to do is to treat the statistics as statistics and keep emotion out of it.

I would apply to Miami too. It's pricey but should be generous with scholarship money too and given your goals is probably worth the 20 bucks to apply.


And keep in mind that you are at Top Law Schools. The vast majority of us either go to, will go to, or want to go to the top tier of schools and advice is going to be given through that lens. It is what it is.

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seancris
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Re: Evaluating T3 Scholarship Offer

Postby seancris » Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:31 pm

ChampagnePapi wrote:You'd get into UVA with an ED. If you are PI or bust, they have great LRAP programs so T14 debt wouldn't require biglaw.


Didn't know that I could still ED to UVA, but I see that the deadline is Dec. 15. Will investigate the LRAP and strongly consider this option. Thanks.

Will say that the prospect of borrowing 200k on the hopes that I won't be responsible for paying it back bothers me, though.

@2014, Fair enough point about the nature of advice at TLS.

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20160810
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Re: Evaluating T3 Scholarship Offer

Postby 20160810 » Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:32 pm

You should be looking at money from Miami or Florida State too.

If you're fine with the limited options, then it's hard to beat going to law school for free. Like someone said, the stip doesn't matter in this case, because if you end 1L less than top-half at Stetson you'd need to drop out anyhow.

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seancris
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Re: Evaluating T3 Scholarship Offer

Postby seancris » Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:36 pm

SBL wrote:You should be looking at money from Miami or Florida State too.

If you're fine with the limited options, then it's hard to beat going to law school for free. Like someone said, the stip doesn't matter in this case, because if you end 1L less than top-half at Stetson you'd need to drop out anyhow.


Thanks.

Miami's stips are rediculous (top 25%, I think), and I've heard they stack sections. I've avoided them on that basis.

Can anyone comment on how predictive numbers are of LS success? I'm 0.7 GPA points above median, and around 10 LSAT points above median. If they're predictive at all, wouldn't this suggest a high chance of success?




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