Smiles per Dollar: A Qualitative Analysis of Law Schools

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

How much more would you pay to have a T14 degree on the wall than a T2 without better employment?

T14 smiles worth nothing
43
38%
T14 smiles worth up to 10,000$
11
10%
T14 smiles worth 10,001$ - 25,000$
11
10%
T14 smiles worth 25,001$ - 50,000$
3
3%
T14 smiles worth 50,001$ - 75,000$
4
4%
T14 smiles worth 75,001$ - 100,000$
10
9%
T14 smiles worth 100,001$ - 150,000$
6
5%
T14 smiles worth 150,001$ - 200,000$
4
4%
T14 smiles worth 200,001$ - 300,000$
4
4%
T14 smiles priceless
16
14%
 
Total votes: 112

exitoptions
Posts: 263
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:58 am

Re: Smiles per Dollar: A Qualitative Analysis of Law Schools

Postby exitoptions » Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:20 pm

red8aron wrote:Defiantly a fair point, though coming from a T2 undergrad, I can tell you that there are lots of stupid as well as smart people who drive me crazy. And there are a fair number of smart people who arn't annoying but improve the quality of a class.

I don't think its about being intelligent which causes people to be gunners, its about people thinking they are smart, or people being super competitive. Still if you want to avoid that sort of environment, it may be better to avoid top schools? But I don't have that info.


Is this some sort of inside joke or do you really not know that "defiantly" and "definitely" are two completely different words? Three times?

User avatar
red8aron
Posts: 50
Joined: Thu May 17, 2012 6:35 pm

Re: Smiles per Dollar: A Qualitative Analysis of Law Schools

Postby red8aron » Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:22 pm

Ludovico Technique wrote:
No, not at all. I had dream schools that were dream schools because they offered a better chance of getting a job.


To each their own. And in the words of Barry from Dinner with Schmucks "Some say I'm a Dreamer, but I'm not"

User avatar
somewhatwayward
Posts: 1446
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2009 5:10 pm

Re: Smiles per Dollar: A Qualitative Analysis of Law Schools

Postby somewhatwayward » Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:27 pm

de·fi·ant [dih-fahy-uh nt]: adj. boldly resistant or challenging; insolent; rebellious

def·i·nite [def-uh-nit]: adj. positive;certain; sure; clearly defined or determined

HTH

ETA: oops, scooped while I was in the middle of making all the bolds and italics in the definitions, LOL....anyway, OP, you'll need to understand this difference before law school
Last edited by somewhatwayward on Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
red8aron
Posts: 50
Joined: Thu May 17, 2012 6:35 pm

Re: Smiles per Dollar: A Qualitative Analysis of Law Schools

Postby red8aron » Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:28 pm

exitoptions wrote:
red8aron wrote:Defiantly a fair point, though coming from a T2 undergrad, I can tell you that there are lots of stupid as well as smart people who drive me crazy. And there are a fair number of smart people who arn't annoying but improve the quality of a class.

I don't think its about being intelligent which causes people to be gunners, its about people thinking they are smart, or people being super competitive. Still if you want to avoid that sort of environment, it may be better to avoid top schools? But I don't have that info.


Is this some sort of inside joke or do you really not know that "defiantly" and "definitely" are two completely different words? Three times?


I simply didn't waist time editing my post. Hopefully everyone understood what I mint. (Though this "waist"and "mint" is a joke)
Last edited by red8aron on Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
paratactical
Posts: 5961
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2009 1:06 pm

Re: Smiles per Dollar: A Qualitative Analysis of Law Schools

Postby paratactical » Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:28 pm

red8aron wrote:
Ludovico Technique wrote:
No, not at all. I had dream schools that were dream schools because they offered a better chance of getting a job.


To each their own. And in the words of Barry from Dinner with Schmucks "Some say I'm a Dreamer, but I'm not"


:?

User avatar
mqt
Posts: 2155
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2012 11:52 pm

Re: Smiles per Dollar: A Qualitative Analysis of Law Schools

Postby mqt » Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:42 pm

red8aron wrote:
exitoptions wrote:
red8aron wrote:Defiantly a fair point, though coming from a T2 undergrad, I can tell you that there are lots of stupid as well as smart people who drive me crazy. And there are a fair number of smart people who arn't annoying but improve the quality of a class.

I don't think its about being intelligent which causes people to be gunners, its about people thinking they are smart, or people being super competitive. Still if you want to avoid that sort of environment, it may be better to avoid top schools? But I don't have that info.


Is this some sort of inside joke or do you really not know that "defiantly" and "definitely" are two completely different words? Three times?


I simply didn't waist time editing my post. Hopefully everyone understood what I mint. (Though this "waist"and "mint" is a joke)


Why didn't you just use the word definitely the first 3 times?

User avatar
stewie27
Posts: 149
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2010 12:46 pm

Re: Smiles per Dollar: A Qualitative Analysis of Law Schools

Postby stewie27 » Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:55 pm

bk1 wrote:
red8aron wrote:Being a part of a really intelligent campus has value.


I despise many of my "intelligent" classmates. Is there a law school where everyone realizes they're not a genius of the law and shuts the fuck up? I'd pay more for that.

+1

09042014
Posts: 18282
Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:47 pm

Re: Smiles per Dollar: A Qualitative Analysis of Law Schools

Postby 09042014 » Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:59 pm

dextermorgan wrote:Without better employment?

Anyone who answers anything more than $0 is an idiot.

Also dude, there is a big difference between having a degree from a T2 or T14, and not having a degree at all. Your dad's story doesn't really mesh up with your question.


People do pay for non-utilitarian things all the time, especially to show off wealth or status. Paying 30K for a T14 isn't any different than buying a 50K BMW.

User avatar
Tom Joad
Posts: 4542
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2008 5:56 pm

Re: Smiles per Dollar: A Qualitative Analysis of Law Schools

Postby Tom Joad » Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:00 pm

I would pay $10 to have a degree that was one of those hologram things that show 2 different images, one that is a Yale degree and the other some BIG STATE U so I have LAY prestige and can identify with the salt of the Earth bros.

09042014
Posts: 18282
Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:47 pm

Re: Smiles per Dollar: A Qualitative Analysis of Law Schools

Postby 09042014 » Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:08 pm

People who think the ABA has let the JD get watered down have about zero perspective. There are ten times as many bullshit MBAs as there are bullshit JD's. There are 2300 4 year colleges in America. Tons of shitty online schools.

Only the medical fields are tightly controlled where the degree itself is the real value. And even then, DO schools graduate people who never get to become doctor.

In most sciences a PhD from a shit school isn't worth much. In engineering, true shit PhD's are worthless but there are fewer. Because the schools rely on grants to operate, and only decent schools get grants.

VERY few degrees are meal tickets for life.

Sorry tiger moms, education isn't the end all be all.

User avatar
Ludo!
Posts: 4764
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2011 1:22 pm

Re: Smiles per Dollar: A Qualitative Analysis of Law Schools

Postby Ludo! » Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:19 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
dextermorgan wrote:Without better employment?

Anyone who answers anything more than $0 is an idiot.

Also dude, there is a big difference between having a degree from a T2 or T14, and not having a degree at all. Your dad's story doesn't really mesh up with your question.


People do pay for non-utilitarian things all the time, especially to show off wealth or status. Paying 30K for a T14 isn't any different than buying a 50K BMW.


I think a lot of the status you get from a good law school is that you get a good job. Nobody is impressed with some dude who went to Cornell and now works at Starbucks.

User avatar
romothesavior
Posts: 14772
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:29 pm

Re: Smiles per Dollar: A Qualitative Analysis of Law Schools

Postby romothesavior » Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:20 pm

I have no idea what the hell is going on ITT but I can tell you I'm in law school now and I'm not smiling. Take that FWIW

09042014
Posts: 18282
Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:47 pm

Re: Smiles per Dollar: A Qualitative Analysis of Law Schools

Postby 09042014 » Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:24 pm

Ludovico Technique wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
dextermorgan wrote:Without better employment?

Anyone who answers anything more than $0 is an idiot.

Also dude, there is a big difference between having a degree from a T2 or T14, and not having a degree at all. Your dad's story doesn't really mesh up with your question.


People do pay for non-utilitarian things all the time, especially to show off wealth or status. Paying 30K for a T14 isn't any different than buying a 50K BMW.


I think a lot of the status you get from a good law school is that you get a good job. Nobody is impressed with some dude who went to Cornell and now works at Starbucks.


And nobody is impressed that a guy who works at starbucks drives a BMW either. But that doesn't mean people who make decent money don't choose to spend their money on status shit.

I'm not arguing it's useful, but non-stupid people make that choice constantly. "Feeling good" is worth a lot. And plenty of people (especially TLSers) get their jollies off going to a good school. No different than getting a BMW instead of a Toyota (for a daily traffic driver).

User avatar
dextermorgan
Posts: 1138
Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2008 12:37 am

Re: Smiles per Dollar: A Qualitative Analysis of Law Schools

Postby dextermorgan » Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:42 am

Desert Fox wrote:People who think the ABA has let the JD get watered down have about zero perspective. There are ten times as many bullshit MBAs as there are bullshit JD's. There are 2300 4 year colleges in America. Tons of shitty online schools.

Only the medical fields are tightly controlled where the degree itself is the real value. And even then, DO schools graduate people who never get to become doctor.

In most sciences a PhD from a shit school isn't worth much. In engineering, true shit PhD's are worthless but there are fewer. Because the schools rely on grants to operate, and only decent schools get grants.

VERY few degrees are meal tickets for life.

Sorry tiger moms, education isn't the end all be all.

You're right. What I meant was that the curriculum at some Tier 4 school isn't going to be substantially different than at a T-14.

User avatar
SemperLegal
Posts: 1333
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2010 8:28 pm

Re: Smiles per Dollar: A Qualitative Analysis of Law Schools

Postby SemperLegal » Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:50 am

Desert Fox wrote:Only the medical fields are tightly controlled where the degree itself is the real value. And even then, DO schools graduate people who never get to become doctor.



I hereby declare myself butthurt.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=596504
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=371820

Don't fuck with my meal ticket.

User avatar
BlaqBella
Posts: 869
Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2011 9:41 am

Re: Smiles per Dollar: A Qualitative Analysis of Law Schools

Postby BlaqBella » Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:06 am

prezidentv8 wrote:
dextermorgan wrote:Without better employment?

Anyone who answers anything more than $0 is an idiot.


WUT ABOUT CRED WITH TEH LADIEZ???


Hey, now, we ladiez go to law schools too, though, we seldom get lay preftige from the menz. In fact, it often dissuades them. Oh, well!

I voted for priceless smiles on the simple basis that HYS is part of the T14 lot. A degree from one of the three is truly priceless.

rad lulz
Posts: 9844
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:53 pm

Re: Smiles per Dollar: A Qualitative Analysis of Law Schools

Postby rad lulz » Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:12 am

BlaqBella wrote:I voted for priceless smiles on the simple basis that HYS is part of the T14 lot. A degree from one of the three is truly priceless.

You remind me of this retard

http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2011/07/21/the-case-against-law-school/a-law-degree-is-priceless

User avatar
BlaqBella
Posts: 869
Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2011 9:41 am

Re: Smiles per Dollar: A Qualitative Analysis of Law Schools

Postby BlaqBella » Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:19 am

rad lulz wrote:
BlaqBella wrote:I voted for priceless smiles on the simple basis that HYS is part of the T14 lot. A degree from one of the three is truly priceless.

You remind me of this retard

http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2011/07/21/the-case-against-law-school/a-law-degree-is-priceless


Thanks! :mrgreen:

But its more than just preftige for me or desire to be a lawyer.

Black/AA + HYS JD = Crapload of opportunities/experiences/networking not afforded as extensively as elsewhere


But I am not about to turn this into a discussion on what a HYS JD can and does mean for a black applicant.

User avatar
dextermorgan
Posts: 1138
Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2008 12:37 am

Re: Smiles per Dollar: A Qualitative Analysis of Law Schools

Postby dextermorgan » Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:27 am

BlaqBella wrote:
rad lulz wrote:
BlaqBella wrote:I voted for priceless smiles on the simple basis that HYS is part of the T14 lot. A degree from one of the three is truly priceless.

You remind me of this retard

http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2011/07/21/the-case-against-law-school/a-law-degree-is-priceless


Thanks! :mrgreen:

But its more than just preftige for me or desire to be a lawyer.

Black/AA + HYS JD = Crapload of opportunities/experiences/networking not afforded as extensively as elsewhere


But I am not about to turn this into a discussion on what a HYS JD can and does mean for a black applicant.

Not in the OP's hypothetical. OP's hypothetical is the value of seeing Harvard on the piece of paper hanging on the wall of the office you would be in no matter where you went to school.

User avatar
red8aron
Posts: 50
Joined: Thu May 17, 2012 6:35 pm

Re: Smiles per Dollar: A Qualitative Analysis of Law Schools

Postby red8aron » Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:53 am

[/quote]Not in the OP's hypothetical. OP's hypothetical is the value of seeing Harvard on the piece of paper hanging on the wall of the office you would be in no matter where you went to school.[/quote]

You are slightly oversimplifying the hypothetical. Its about T14 minus employment benefit (which means you don't get new opportunities, but you do have different experiences).

I don't want people to just imagine two different degrees on the same wall. But the different paths to those similar place.

Its about school pride, the experience of being at a top institution, an affirmation of the work you put into "getting in" and all of the other qualitative differences between top schools and slightly lower ranked schools.

Perhaps that is worthless, but I am inclined to believe it has some value. I just don't know how much.

User avatar
Tom Joad
Posts: 4542
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2008 5:56 pm

Re: Smiles per Dollar: A Qualitative Analysis of Law Schools

Postby Tom Joad » Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:21 am

BlaqBella wrote:Hey, now, we ladiez go to law schools too, though, we seldom get lay preftige from the menz. In fact, it often dissuades them. Oh, well!

The preftige isn't driving away the men. It is something else.
red8aron wrote:Its about school pride, the experience of being at a top institution, an affirmation of the work you put into "getting in" and all of the other qualitative differences between top schools and slightly lower ranked schools.

No. Because a large percentage of law students at non-T14 schools got into the T14 or could have but just didn't want to go to one of those schools.

User avatar
dextermorgan
Posts: 1138
Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2008 12:37 am

Re: Smiles per Dollar: A Qualitative Analysis of Law Schools

Postby dextermorgan » Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:26 am

red8aron wrote:
dextermorgan wrote:Not in the OP's hypothetical. OP's hypothetical is the value of seeing Harvard on the piece of paper hanging on the wall of the office you would be in no matter where you went to school.


You are slightly oversimplifying the hypothetical. Its about T14 minus employment benefit (which means you don't get new opportunities, but you do have different experiences).

I don't want people to just imagine two different degrees on the same wall. But the different paths to those similar place.

Its about school pride, the experience of being at a top institution, an affirmation of the work you put into "getting in" and all of the other qualitative differences between top schools and slightly lower ranked schools.

Perhaps that is worthless, but I am inclined to believe it has some value. I just don't know how much.

That's what you want it to be about. You ignore that the vast majority of people in law school are in it to get a job, and don't need some fancy name on the degree to have pride in themselves.

User avatar
cinephile
Posts: 3469
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2010 3:50 pm

Re: Smiles per Dollar: A Qualitative Analysis of Law Schools

Postby cinephile » Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:42 pm

No offense meant, but no one should get a degree to validate themselves. If you're intelligent, then be secure in that. No piece of paper has to say what you already know.

User avatar
red8aron
Posts: 50
Joined: Thu May 17, 2012 6:35 pm

Re: Smiles per Dollar: A Qualitative Analysis of Law Schools

Postby red8aron » Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:49 pm

dextermorgan wrote:That's what you want it to be about. You ignore that the vast majority of people in law school are in it to get a job, and don't need some fancy name on the degree to have pride in themselves.


Well I wouldn't say vast majority base their decision based solely on employment considering the poll results (though this is certainly unscientific and bound to be flawed). I haven't read this specific article (http://www.usnews.com/education/blogs/c ... n-rankings) But I read a similar one which pointed out the same issue. Students are picking law schools based on rank, more than employment prospects. This seems to imply that the intangibles I'm trying to value are important to applicants. But it could also be the tangibles which are measured by rank?

Second, I will admit that I may be overestimating the value. I only applied to one local school for undergrad because I didn't have the support to apply broadly and didn't think I could go elsewhere financially. It has worked out well, I got a full ride and have tons of connections to my legal community. But, I look back on this and see how much I undersold myself and I don't want to make the same mistake, if it was a mistake. This probably biases my opinion, but I know I can be proud of myself without a degree. I just think being part of a well-respected institution may have real impacts (even if they are just placebo effects) on happiness.

User avatar
red8aron
Posts: 50
Joined: Thu May 17, 2012 6:35 pm

Re: Smiles per Dollar: A Qualitative Analysis of Law Schools

Postby red8aron » Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:52 pm

Also I would like to thank everyone who has taken the time to post on this thread. I appreciate all the input and hope no one has been offended by anything I have posted.




Return to “Choosing a Law School”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Yahoo [Bot] and 2 guests