Full-rides you'd turn down HYS-sticker for (poll included)

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

Lowest-ranked Full-ride you'd turn down HYS at sticker for

Columbia
166
17%
Chicago
118
12%
NYU
121
12%
Berkeley
97
10%
U-Penn
89
9%
UVA
71
7%
Michigan
76
8%
Duke
64
7%
Northwestern
74
8%
Georgetown/Cornell
96
10%
 
Total votes: 972

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Rahviveh
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Re: Full-rides you'd turn down HYS-sticker for (poll included)

Postby Rahviveh » Mon Nov 26, 2012 6:37 pm

Wouldnt turn down Yale for anyone. But would take CCN, P and maybe even NW full rides over HYS at sticker.
Last edited by Rahviveh on Mon Nov 26, 2012 6:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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TrialLawyer16
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Re: Full-rides you'd turn down HYS-sticker for (poll included)

Postby TrialLawyer16 » Mon Nov 26, 2012 7:19 pm

sinfiery wrote:
TrialLawyer16 wrote:Florida1949 actually had a very well-thought out comment. Paying off a high amount of student loans while on a 50-60k a year salary isn't as easy as many of you guys think it is, trust me. I'm speaking from experience. I'll bring a little bit of realism into this topic and hopefully open up a few eyes.

Let's say you miss BigLaw, you get lucky, and find a job willing to pay you 60k (unlikely)

*Not accounting for LRAP
Salary 60,000
Take home (78%) 46,800
Monthly take-home 3,900

Expenses
Rent 1000 (very cheap 1 bdroom apt)
Utilities 100
Student loans 1700 **BEFORE INTEREST (10-year plan on 200k in pre-interest debt)
Food 250
Car payment 250
Car Insurance 150
Car gas 120
Phone 85

Total recurring expenses 3655
Disposable income (Monthly take-home minus expenses) $245

As you can see this leaves you with a whopping $245 of disposable income a month after you only pay your normal monthly recurring bills. That is the bare minimum of what you would have. That $245 has to be used for any hobby you'd like to do (gym membership, vacation, movies) and anything that happens to pop up (flat tires, car inspection, etc.) Can you imagine even trying to start a family on this? You're not even paying a mortgage at this point, you're just living in a cheap 1 bedroom apartment. And this is the job you'd have AFTER you have that shiny new HYS degree with it's 200k debt. And this is an overly generous breakdown. Most jobs do not pay 60k if you miss biglaw and almost all schools will cost you more than $200k at sticker. This also is being extremely generous by not taking interest into account. If we do take interest into account you would not even have the $245 - you probably would not make enough money to pay all of your bills. We all have to realize the risk we're taking here by going to law school. It's a risk I'm willing to take to do what I believe I'm meant to do, but a risk nonetheless - one bigger than it appears many people here realize. Unusually long-winded post for me, but I feel like it's for a good cause.

Oh come the fuck on.
First off
So, with that metric, the depth of the classes that have "choice" outcomes:
Yale ~85%
Stanford ~80%
Harvard ~78%

Of students get their first choice of Biglaw/academia/PI/Clerkship/

The rest is in business and other firm jobs for these schools.


So apparently if you are going the business/other firm route, you are at about an aggregate 17% chance.
Add in to the fact that many at HYS would be making absolute bank going the business route because of prior connections...that number would go drastically lower for people who didn't achieve their first choice..
(Plus consulting firms come to OCI...every year..)

(And these are based on statistics from an economy that will definitely be worse off than when the C/O 2016 comes out)
But that doesn't matter.

Let's discuss the worst case scenario.

Your assumptions are presumably for NYC. 1k rent? The fuck. That rents a mansion where I went to undergrad, serious.


Add on that you assume 60k salary. That isn't the starting salary. That is the 10 year average of what you will make.

Given all this, you have 26k after tax income after paying back your loans. In your worst case scenario.

That's not even poor, that's middle-class in America.

Being poor isn't that bad. Middle-class is awesome.

I stand by my point.
Just because living like an average American looks scary on paper doesn't mean it is. (Most Middle-class Americans don't have 26k to spend on COL after their debt obligations. You are even better off and will be substantially better off in 10 years)

You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. Sorry for the delayed response, I was at work. Go figure. To be honest with the vulgarity and ignorant arrogance you responded to me with when I put a decent amount of effort into a post intending to help people I really want to rip into you, but I'm not going to do that. But by your response you CLEARLY, CLEARLY, have never paid bills and taken care of yourself. You're throwing out all these hypotheticals while I'm giving you facts and hard numbers. To address your ignorant assertions:

1) Your assumptions are presumably for NYC. 1k rent? The fuck. That rents a mansion where I went to undergrad, serious.
What in the world are you talking about? No I'm not basing that off of NYC. I've lived in Florida, Maryland, and Virginia and in most of America a minimum of 1k for a 1bedroom apartment is what you're going to pay. PERIOD. Now if I was talking about DC (and you don't want to live in an area that will probably frighten you) that number jumps up to about 1500, and if I'm talking about NYC it's even more. There are NO MANSIONS that you can rent for 1k, none. On top of me having this real life experience with renting, I've been a licensed realtor since 2006. I know what I am talking about and you most certainly are spewing shit.

2) Add on that you assume 60k salary. That isn't the starting salary. That is the 10 year average of what you will make.
What does that even mean? "10 year average of what you will make". The way you worded that makes it sound like you said you'd start out making even less than 60k, which is exactly what I said. I used 60k as a generous number just to show how difficult it would be even at 60k. If I'm understanding you correctly you're helping me prove my point.

3)Given all this, you have 26k after tax income after paying back your loans. In your worst case scenario. That's not even poor, that's middle-class in America. Being poor isn't that bad. Middle-class is awesome. I stand by my point. Just because living like an average American looks scary on paper doesn't mean it is. (Most Middle-class Americans don't have 26k to spend on COL after their debt obligations. You are even better off and will be substantially better off in 10 years)
Are you being serious? Middle-class America is 26k after tax income? You know what 26k after tax income is before taxes? It's less than 33k a year. Who on earth attends a top law school for 3 years to make the equivalent of 33k a year and where in the world do you live where anyone views making 33k a year as middle class? I used to make that when I waited tables at Chili's. You think your server is middle class? And on top of that I already gave you a breakdown of expenses of people who are actually taking care of themselves in the real world. That 26k broken into months is a little over 2k a month for COL. Look above at my expense numbers in the earlier post and once you pay all of your basic monthly recurring bills you are left with about $250 of disposable income a month. Don't try to spew your bullshit about the cost of renting an apartment because you look foolish, I even lowballed the utilities. And even if you could find this mythical apartment of yours with a unicorn that greets you at the door, that 1700 a month for loans isn't even including interest, so take that money right back out. Now please, look at my expense breakdown in my original post and tell me where I'm wrong. Don't give me theoreticals about "oh this will work, yeah this is that, middle class yeah, right on". No, facts. Attack my expense breakdown and tell me where you'll find the money to live a middle class life.


Go live life in the real world and grow some hair on your chin before you come back to this thread.

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TrialLawyer16
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Re: Full-rides you'd turn down HYS-sticker for (poll included)

Postby TrialLawyer16 » Mon Nov 26, 2012 7:34 pm

sinfiery wrote:
Wormfather wrote:26K for COL in NYC and LA is poor. Hell that's food stamps poor.

Median NYC (Most expensive city to live in the country) income is 48k for a household

After tax income = $35,500

debt obligations probably brings it near 30k for the median allowed for COL for the entire city. Manhattan and all. For a household.

You're almost at the 50% for households all by yourself in the most expensive city to live in.


Average Americans don't make much.

Dude, Wormfather is right. Again, you're talking nonsense. Do you know that a huge part of that median 48k income are people who live in PROJECTS and low-income housing? Do you know what projects are? They are absolutely huge apartment complexes that house literally thousands of people in the same area of less than 10 houses. Section 8 housing, in which people do not pay nearly the amount others have to pay in rent. If you're making 60k you do not qualify for Section 8, regardless of what your loans are. Stop looking at wikipedia and debating with people who actually know what they're talking about. NYC has 8 million people, do you know how many people are poor? The average New Yorker does not make 48k a year, the average is way higher than that. 48k is the median, Sherlock. There is a big difference.

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sinfiery
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Re: Full-rides you'd turn down HYS-sticker for (poll included)

Postby sinfiery » Mon Nov 26, 2012 7:52 pm

TrialLawyer16 wrote:You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. Sorry for the delayed response, I was at work. Go figure. To be honest with the vulgarity and ignorant arrogance you responded to me with when I put a decent amount of effort into a post intending to help people I really want to rip into you, but I'm not going to do that. But by your response you CLEARLY, CLEARLY, have never paid bills and taken care of yourself.

Indeed. I've never lived on my own and had my parents pay my every expense. Now I hope you feel better about yourself.


You're throwing out all these hypotheticals while I'm giving you facts and hard numbers. To address your ignorant assertions:

You threw out the hypotheticals about how one spends his money. I used your salary assumptions and compared it to others living within similar areas and stated a relative position one would stand with that much cash to spend on cost of living. Purely numerical analysis.


1) Your assumptions are presumably for NYC. 1k rent? The fuck. That rents a mansion where I went to undergrad, serious.
What in the world are you talking about? No I'm not basing that off of NYC. I've lived in Florida, Maryland, and Virginia and in most of America a minimum of 1k for a 1bedroom apartment is what you're going to pay. PERIOD. Now if I was talking about DC (and you don't want to live in an area that will probably frighten you) that number jumps up to about 1500, and if I'm talking about NYC it's even more. There are NO MANSIONS that you can rent for 1k, none. On top of me having this real life experience with renting, I've been a licensed realtor since 2006. I know what I am talking about and you most certainly are spewing shit.

Clearly we disagree. I firmly believe in 99% of the country, it takes far less than $1,000 to rent out a 1 bedroom apartment.


2) Add on that you assume 60k salary. That isn't the starting salary. That is the 10 year average of what you will make.
What does that even mean? "10 year average of what you will make". The way you worded that makes it sound like you said you'd start out making even less than 60k, which is exactly what I said. I used 60k as a generous number just to show how difficult it would be even at 60k. If I'm understanding you correctly you're helping me prove my point.

Most jobs don't pay the same salary over the 10 years you work there. I was just noting that for proper analysis, you don't consider starting salary but the average salary one obtains over a 10 year period working at X job. Since the salary figure was made up, it didn't change the analysis.


3)Given all this, you have 26k after tax income after paying back your loans. In your worst case scenario. That's not even poor, that's middle-class in America. Being poor isn't that bad. Middle-class is awesome. I stand by my point. Just because living like an average American looks scary on paper doesn't mean it is. (Most Middle-class Americans don't have 26k to spend on COL after their debt obligations. You are even better off and will be substantially better off in 10 years)
Are you being serious? Middle-class America is 26k after tax income? You know what 26k after tax income is before taxes? It's less than 33k a year. Who on earth attends a top law school for 3 years to make the equivalent of 33k a year and where in the world do you live where anyone views making 33k a year as middle class? I used to make that when I waited tables at Chili's. You think your server is middle class? And on top of that I already gave you a breakdown of expenses of people who are actually taking care of themselves in the real world. That 26k broken into months is a little over 2k a month for COL. Look above at my expense numbers in the earlier post and once you pay all of your basic monthly recurring bills you are left with about $250 of disposable income a month. Don't try to spew your bullshit about the cost of renting an apartment because you look foolish, I even lowballed the utilities. And even if you could find this mythical apartment of yours with a unicorn that greets you at the door, that 1700 a month for loans isn't even including interest, so take that money right back out. Now please, look at my expense breakdown in my original post and tell me where I'm wrong. Don't give me theoreticals about "oh this will work, yeah this is that, middle class yeah, right on". No, facts. Attack my expense breakdown and tell me where you'll find the money to live a middle class life.


I showed that in NYC, the median income is 46k. After tax, it's 35k. After an assumed 5k in debt obligations, it's 30k. This is the middle 50 percent for NYC. I'm not sure what the proper middle-class definition is, but I'd say it's between the 20th and 80th percentile of people. I'm going to assume if 30k is the median, 25k would fall into that range.
It's all rooted in statistical fact, aside from the 5k in debt obligations, which is an assumption. And the assumption that the SD is roughly 2.5k.

What you showed me is that you are use to a standard of living most Americans don't have the privilege of living. I get it. All I'm trying to tell you is that most Americans who live below this standard don't have that terrible of a life.


Go live life in the real world and grow some hair on your chin before you come back to this thread.

Thanks for the advice.


TrialLawyer16 wrote:The average New Yorker does not make 48k a year, the average is way higher than that. 48k is the median, Sherlock. There is a big difference.

Median finds the middle person.
That person has a standard of living that is greater than half the people in the city. Thus why I use this statistic.

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TrialLawyer16
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Re: Full-rides you'd turn down HYS-sticker for (poll included)

Postby TrialLawyer16 » Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:07 pm

sinfiery wrote:
TrialLawyer16 wrote:Go live life in the real world and grow some hair on your chin before you come back to this thread.

Thanks for the advice.

You're welcome. And by the way, you don't get to curse at someone and then play the victim. Now go on out there and get that big bad world sonny *slaps bottom*

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Re: Full-rides you'd turn down HYS-sticker for (poll included)

Postby sinfiery » Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:24 pm

TrialLawyer16 wrote:You're welcome. And by the way, you don't get to curse at someone and then play the victim. Now go on out there and get that big bad world sonny *slaps bottom*

:)

Elston Gunn wrote:I've actually made this decision, so I'll add some of my thoughts. (Note, this mostly only applies to Yale. It's unclear to me how similar things are at Stanford, but outcomes are definitely weaker at Harvard--i.e. big law is not a near-guarantee and you still have to standout to get an AIII clerkship.)

1. The clerkship factor.

I suspect the biggest practical difference between going to Yale vs. CCN is in clerkship chances. My 1L host at ASW stated confidently that anyone who was willing to work in a flyover could get a district clerkship. Obviously, he was somewhat exaggerating, but it's reasonable to think a YLS student who really wants to clerk has something like a 60-70% chance of making that happen.

The question is, how valuable is clerking? Well, if you want to be a professor, work in the federal government or in prestige PI, it's pretty much a requirement. Another area where it's very important (and one I think is chronically ignored in TLS conventional wisdom of Academia/FedGov/Prestige PI) is doing appellate litigation at a big firm, as well as working at the elite Lit shops that give you a real chance to make partner. These are the things that litigation-minded people really gun for.

Another thing to consider is the exit options and job security that come with having been a federal clerk. It'd be hard to quantify the effect, but I think it's undoubtedly there. (There was a thread a while back by an HLS grad five years out, who I think said he didn't think the Harvard name necessarily carried that much weight in changing jobs, but that his clerkships definitely did.) I don't know if it will stop you from being Lathamed, but I would bet a lot that any Lathamed associates with clerkships had a softer landing.

2. Big law

At Yale, some people do strike out at FIP, but essentially every single person who is persistent and doesn't have a resume that screams that they don't want to work at firm finds a job paying 145K plus. And even people with those resumes almost always find something if they're really persistent.

In addition to that security is dramatically increased ability to get jobs in more difficult cities, particularly D.C. So something you'd want to take into account is how comfortable you are working BigLaw in NYC vs. some other market.

3. Best/Worst case scenarios vs. median outcomes

When making this decision, I think it's especially important to think about: what's the best reasonable outcome for me (80th percentile), the most likely outcome, and the worst reasonable outcome (10th percentile) at the different schools?

In the end, I thought the best and worst outcomes at Yale at near-sticker were both preferable to the equivalent at Chicago at none, but the median outcome at Chicago was better. I decided to gamble a little, knowing the downside risk was very low. But this is very personal--for instance, at the 80th percentile, it's certainly not obvious whether clerkship + elite DC appellate/lit boutique or BigFed + a lot of debt and a solid LRAP is better or worse than middling DC BigLaw or elite NYC BigLaw plus little to no debt. (Though I imagine most will say the latter is obviously better, it wasn't in my eyes.)

3. Quality of Life

I cannot tell you how easy first semester 1L is here, and after this I will still probably never take more than 1 or 2 exams in the same semester. I'm not sure how much that's worth, but it's a real difference.

4. Litigation vs. Transactional

I think this distinction is nearly as important as the distinction between Academia and BigLaw in making this decision. If you want transactional, most of the benefits of Yale won't be relevant to you (though you may get very excited at the idea of getting a V5 from way below the theoretical median, it's certainly not any guarantee). Granted, most people don't really know what they want before they start law school, though I think a fair number of people do.

awesome post

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Re: Full-rides you'd turn down HYS-sticker for (poll included)

Postby EdgarWinter » Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:10 pm

On Biglaw stuff: It's not smart to assume that just because only 60% of the class at school X gets biglaw that your probability of getting biglaw from that school is only 60% after receiving a full-tuition named award. Unless you have good reason to think that you are undeserving of the award or have extraneous factors inhibiting your performance (total bullshit major; fluke high LSAT score, terrible at talking to people, etc.) then proper Bayesian updating would indicate a probability of getting biglaw substantially higher than 60% for you. It's not like they hand these out to people they expect to make bottom 10%. Have a little (cautious) confidence in yourselves folks.

PS: lol @ BW's change of tune.

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Re: Full-rides you'd turn down HYS-sticker for (poll included)

Postby sinfiery » Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:19 pm

EdgarWinter wrote:On Biglaw stuff: It's not smart to assume that just because only 60% of the class at school X gets biglaw that your probability of getting biglaw from that school is only 60% after receiving a full-tuition named award. Unless you have good reason to think that you are undeserving of the award or have extraneous factors inhibiting your performance (total bullshit major; fluke high LSAT score, terrible at talking to people, etc.) then proper Bayesian updating would indicate a probability of getting biglaw substantially higher than 60% for you. It's not like they hand these out to people they expect to make bottom 10%. Have a little (cautious) confidence in yourselves folks.

PS: lol @ BW's change of tune.

prepare thyself
for you don't realize what you've said

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suralin
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Re: Full-rides you'd turn down HYS-sticker for (poll included)

Postby suralin » Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:41 pm

Ugh
Last edited by suralin on Sat Nov 21, 2015 3:40 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Tom Joad
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Re: Full-rides you'd turn down HYS-sticker for (poll included)

Postby Tom Joad » Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:28 pm

sinfiery wrote:(And these are based on statistics from an economy that will definitely be worse off than when the C/O 2016 comes out)

LOL JUST LOL

And good luck on that $1,000 mansion, bro.

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sinfiery
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Re: Full-rides you'd turn down HYS-sticker for (poll included)

Postby sinfiery » Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:42 pm

Tom Joad wrote:
sinfiery wrote:(And these are based on statistics from an economy that will definitely be worse off than when the C/O 2016 comes out)

LOL JUST LOL

And good luck on that $1,000 mansion, bro.

nice one

also, West Texas rental rates. brb 9k COL including 1200 on books and 2000 for transportation.

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Re: Full-rides you'd turn down HYS-sticker for (poll included)

Postby moonman157 » Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:46 pm

sinfiery wrote:
Tom Joad wrote:
sinfiery wrote:(And these are based on statistics from an economy that will definitely be worse off than when the C/O 2016 comes out)

LOL JUST LOL

And good luck on that $1,000 mansion, bro.

nice one

also, West Texas rental rates. brb 9k COL including 1200 on books and 2000 for transportation.


I'd rather be dead in California than alive in West Texas

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Tom Joad
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Re: Full-rides you'd turn down HYS-sticker for (poll included)

Postby Tom Joad » Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:48 pm

sinfiery wrote:
Tom Joad wrote:
sinfiery wrote:(And these are based on statistics from an economy that will definitely be worse off than when the C/O 2016 comes out)

LOL JUST LOL

And good luck on that $1,000 mansion, bro.

nice one

also, West Texas rental rates. brb 9k COL including 1200 on books and 2000 for transportation.

Don't forget 5000 on Raider Rash treatment.

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sinfiery
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Re: Full-rides you'd turn down HYS-sticker for (poll included)

Postby sinfiery » Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:49 pm

Tom Joad wrote:
sinfiery wrote:
Tom Joad wrote:
sinfiery wrote:(And these are based on statistics from an economy that will definitely be worse off than when the C/O 2016 comes out)

LOL JUST LOL

And good luck on that $1,000 mansion, bro.

nice one

also, West Texas rental rates. brb 9k COL including 1200 on books and 2000 for transportation.

Don't forget 5000 on Raider Rash treatment.

also a meth town
and 6th most dangerous city in America based on violent crimes.



but I enjoyed my time there.

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Re: Full-rides you'd turn down HYS-sticker for (poll included)

Postby Elston Gunn » Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:54 pm

How did a HYS thread spend so much time talking about how poor you would be if you made 60K with no LRAP? You guys know that at Yale that's literally impossible, right? And very very unlikely from Harvard and Stanford? Unless, I guess, you had private loans for some reason.

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Re: Full-rides you'd turn down HYS-sticker for (poll included)

Postby sinfiery » Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:03 pm

Elston Gunn wrote:How did a HYS thread spend so much time talking about how poor you would be if you made 60K with no LRAP? You guys know that at Yale that's literally impossible, right? And very very unlikely from Harvard and Stanford? Unless, I guess, you had private loans for some reason.

I dunno, but I'll take the blame.

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Re: Full-rides you'd turn down HYS-sticker for (poll included)

Postby CyanIdes Of March » Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:48 pm

Not sure if it's the smart choice and I'd certainly do a lot more research on the specifics of all the schools relevant but right now I'd Columbia would get my vote. It'd be hard for me to turn H down for anything.

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Re: Full-rides you'd turn down HYS-sticker for (poll included)

Postby M458 » Tue Nov 27, 2012 5:16 pm

Perhaps it wouldn't be the best long-term financial option, but I would probably pick every T-14 at full-ride except Georgetown over Harvard at sticker (Harvard with some grant aid becomes a different story). A difference of approximately $150k worth of debt sucks. The psychological effect of that much debt hanging over your head is draining, and having already experienced (albeit on a smaller scale) paying back undergrad loans, I wouldn't want to go through that again with even more debt. I just feel like a full-ride at a non-HYS may not give you as much opportunities in terms of making some job outcomes less likely or nearly impossible (elite firms, clerkships, academia, etc.), but at least with a full-ride you come out of a great school with no debt.

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Re: Full-rides you'd turn down HYS-sticker for (poll included)

Postby EdgarWinter » Wed Nov 28, 2012 2:24 am

Suralin wrote:
EdgarWinter wrote:On Biglaw stuff: It's not smart to assume that just because only 60% of the class at school X gets biglaw that your probability of getting biglaw from that school is only 60% after receiving a full-tuition named award. Unless you have good reason to think that you are undeserving of the award or have extraneous factors inhibiting your performance (total bullshit major; fluke high LSAT score, terrible at talking to people, etc.) then proper Bayesian updating would indicate a probability of getting biglaw substantially higher than 60% for you. It's not like they hand these out to people they expect to make bottom 10%. Have a little (cautious) confidence in yourselves folks.

PS: lol @ BW's change of tune.


I think Bayesian updating is in principle appropriate for this topic, but practically, it runs into a number of obstacles. First, proper usage of Bayesian-calibrated confidence levels requires (just as) well-calibrated priors. These priors are not easily obtained for this topic since, as has been said over and over again, everyone else is just as smart and hard-working as you are--or, if not exactly as smart/hard-working, close enough that factors beyond your control comprise the vast majority of the difference. Second, and on a related note, success on law school exams is largely unpredictable before one actually takes such an exam. There is no good 'real-life' proxy. Thus, if you really want to apply Bayesian updating methods to the probability of getting Biglaw, you must wait until after you see how well you really do at law school exams, especially relative to others; only then can the accurate priors necessary for proper updating be obtained.


I think this is mostly TLS group-think to be honest. The great mass of folks at any given school have such marginally different statistics from each other that of course meaningful predictions of class rank are unobtainable. But at the tail ends it makes sense for a $$$$ 180/4.0* applicant to confidently update his probability of being in the bottom 10% (as one example) from the standard 10% to close to zero.

It's also true that it is totally rational to do this, since a rational actor should act competently upon his/her available information, including those estimations (IE; they'll study hard/make good school choices anyway). Those who argue against doing so are basically alleging that their audience's constitution(s) is/are so weak as to need supplementation by means of unnecessary fear of failure. That said, I suspect that these advocates are probably not in the position to be making such estimations anyway.

*I should clarify that numbers aren't the only thing here. Huge scholly recipients are also relatively guaranteed to 1) not be horrible writers (which inhibits just ug grades/LSAT less than one would think) and 2) have had good rec letters since applicants lacking these things get low-ball offers or yield protected. So it's not just GPA/LSAT that is providing the basis for one's estimations.

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Re: Full-rides you'd turn down HYS-sticker for (poll included)

Postby cahwc12 » Wed Nov 28, 2012 10:36 am

It sounds like you haven't started law school or haven't been there very long (no grades yet), and while I would have originally agreed with you (also 0L), I've read posts from so many very knowledgeable posters that contend the opposite of what you are saying and who are or have actually been through law school, so I defer to them.

I don't think you can put forward a serious argument to the contrary without falling victim to special snowflake syndrome or optimism bias.

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Re: Full-rides you'd turn down HYS-sticker for (poll included)

Postby EdgarWinter » Wed Nov 28, 2012 11:02 am

My post is applicable to less than 2% of the T14 population. Of course you've read so many posters saying I'm wrong. 98% of them come from the masses to whom this analysis does not apply.

CreativityKing
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Re: Full-rides you'd turn down HYS-sticker for (poll included)

Postby CreativityKing » Wed Nov 28, 2012 11:13 am

I did this. Northwestern's biggest scholarship over HYS. So, so, SO happy about it. PM if you want more info.

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20130312
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Re: Full-rides you'd turn down HYS-sticker for (poll included)

Postby 20130312 » Wed Nov 28, 2012 11:29 am

What is this? A substantial number of people would actually turn down a full ride at CCN just to pay full freight at HYS? Y'all are either insane or 0L gunners.

M458
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Re: Full-rides you'd turn down HYS-sticker for (poll included)

Postby M458 » Wed Nov 28, 2012 12:03 pm

InGoodFaith wrote:What is this? A substantial number of people would actually turn down a full ride at CCN just to pay full freight at HYS? Y'all are either insane or 0L gunners.


I'd be curious to see how the choices differ between people who are going straight from undergrad or didn't incur any undergrad debt and people who have had to make student loan payments on a good chunk of debt already.

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twenty
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Re: Full-rides you'd turn down HYS-sticker for (poll included)

Postby twenty » Wed Nov 28, 2012 2:22 pm

I have honestly no idea why anyone would turn down NYU with a full ride scholarship over HYS, but not Columbia.




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