Full-rides you'd turn down HYS-sticker for (poll included)

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

Lowest-ranked Full-ride you'd turn down HYS at sticker for

Columbia
166
17%
Chicago
118
12%
NYU
121
12%
Berkeley
97
10%
U-Penn
89
9%
UVA
71
7%
Michigan
76
8%
Duke
64
7%
Northwestern
74
8%
Georgetown/Cornell
96
10%
 
Total votes: 972

hdivine
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Full-rides you'd turn down HYS-sticker for (poll included)

Postby hdivine » Sat Nov 24, 2012 10:30 pm

I have an admissions offer to Harvard, and I'm hopeful for Yale and Stanford as well; however, I have received a full-ride offer at another T-14 school and have at least two more potential full-rides (still completing essays) for other schools. I'm interested to see which schools people would be willing to turn down HYS at sticker price for full-rides.

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sinfiery
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Re: Full-rides you'd turn down HYS-sticker for (poll included)

Postby sinfiery » Sat Nov 24, 2012 10:34 pm

Personally, I'd take HYS over everything because the grant money is sure to be substantial although 150k @ Columbia would have me second guessing myself for a second.


Curious what your #s/softs are also!

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Doorkeeper
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Re: Full-rides you'd turn down HYS-sticker for (poll included)

Postby Doorkeeper » Sat Nov 24, 2012 10:41 pm

Doorkeeper wrote:It totally depends on what you want to do.

Biglaw? Take a full ride at CCN in a second.

Public Interest? Take a full ride at CCN.

Politics/Policy Work in DC? HYS.

Academia? HYS.

Also, wait until you hear financial aid from all of your schools before making a decision.

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TrialLawyer16
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Re: Full-rides you'd turn down HYS-sticker for (poll included)

Postby TrialLawyer16 » Sat Nov 24, 2012 11:45 pm

sinfiery wrote:Personally, I'd take HYS over everything because the grant money is sure to be substantial

That's actually why OP put the "at sticker" disclaimer in the title


ETA: FWIW, I voted Gtown/Cornell. I just couldn't rationalize taking paying full 140k+ for HYS, when I could go to any T-14 for free. Maybe it's just the accountant in me, but I'd rather hedge my bets a little bit. But what Doorkeeper said is definitely valid. I'm looking at this from the perspective of someone who wants BigLaw. And even if I didn't, in almost every situation except a certain few (goals for politics, academia, etc.), I would rather save the 140k.
Last edited by TrialLawyer16 on Sat Nov 24, 2012 11:53 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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sinfiery
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Re: Full-rides you'd turn down HYS-sticker for (poll included)

Postby sinfiery » Sat Nov 24, 2012 11:48 pm

TrialLawyer16 wrote:
sinfiery wrote:Personally, I'd take HYS over everything because the grant money is sure to be substantial

That's actually why OP put the "at sticker" disclaimer in the title

Indeed, didn't realize this.

Doesn't seem to fit OPs situation from the other thread though, as he will surely receive some aid unless his family is balling.

Oh well, voted.

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SemperLegal
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Re: Full-rides you'd turn down HYS-sticker for (poll included)

Postby SemperLegal » Sun Nov 25, 2012 1:13 am

I could never see myself regrettting having no debt and a T14 degree, even if I was jobless. On the other hand, I could see myself being pissed if I had the debt and no job. So I would go for any T14 that I could spend 3 years at and not feel like it has been a total waste of three years if I end up not fully-utilizing my degree. (I.e. are in city that I could be happy in [Personally, NY/SF/ Chicago])

Personal savings also play a role. If you are going to still have to take out loans for living expenses, my answers might change.

hdivine
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Re: Full-rides you'd turn down HYS-sticker for (poll included)

Postby hdivine » Sun Nov 25, 2012 1:38 am

sinfiery wrote:
TrialLawyer16 wrote:
sinfiery wrote:Personally, I'd take HYS over everything because the grant money is sure to be substantial

That's actually why OP put the "at sticker" disclaimer in the title

Indeed, didn't realize this.

Doesn't seem to fit OPs situation from the other thread though, as he will surely receive some aid unless his family is balling.

Oh well, voted.


Yeah, I thought about grant aid from HYS, but until I receive a financial aid package, I'll have little better than a semi-educated guess. Yale does a great job on its website of telling you their formula, but crunching any numbers requires predicting what they expect the student and parents to contribute. I decided polling at sticker price was a good call. It's more substantive.

Personally, I'd take HYS over everything because the grant money is sure to be substantial although 150k @ Columbia would have me second guessing myself for a second.

Curious what your #s/softs are also!


I have good numbers (177/3.9), but I don't have anything Earth-shattering as far as softs go. Most of my undergrad time was spent working in order to afford college, and I certainly didn't come from a prestigious undergrad.

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BruceWayne
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Re: Full-rides you'd turn down HYS-sticker for (poll included)

Postby BruceWayne » Sun Nov 25, 2012 1:46 am

SemperLegal wrote:I could never see myself regrettting having no debt and a T14 degree, even if I was jobless. On the other hand, I could see myself being pissed if I had the debt and no job. So I would go for any T14 that I could spend 3 years at and not feel like it has been a total waste of three years if I end up not fully-utilizing my degree. (I.e. are in city that I could be happy in [Personally, NY/SF/ Chicago])

Personal savings also play a role. If you are going to still have to take out loans for living expenses, my answers might change.


I agree 100%. And I don't know anyone in that situation who really regrets it. On the other hand, I know many who regret paying sticker at a top 14 even when they DID get a job.

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sinfiery
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Re: Full-rides you'd turn down HYS-sticker for (poll included)

Postby sinfiery » Sun Nov 25, 2012 4:07 am

SemperLegal wrote:I could never see myself regrettting having no debt and a T14 degree, even if I was jobless. On the other hand, I could see myself being pissed if I had the debt and no job.

T14 @ scholarship = safer bet.
T3 @ sticker = riskier but possibly able to generate giant rewards at higher probability.


I dunno, I think once you're in this situation you can't make your entire decision based on what you would possibly regret more.
Your ambitions have to take a roll in it.

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IAFG
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Re: Full-rides you'd turn down HYS-sticker for (poll included)

Postby IAFG » Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:49 am

-_- @ the assumption of linear job prospects as you go "down."

CanadianWolf
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Re: Full-rides you'd turn down HYS-sticker for (poll included)

Postby CanadianWolf » Sun Nov 25, 2012 9:08 am

I suspect that the results might differ if the question only involved Yale rather than H,Y & S.

Nevertheless, if one does take the full tuition scholarship to a non-top-3, then that person's resume has the option of including a resume line stating : Copy of my Yale acceptance letter is available on request.

In my view, it would be difficult to turn down a full tuition scholarship to Columbia, Chicago or NYU versus full-pay at Harvard, Stanford or the other one.

Gator_Law
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Re: Full-rides you'd turn down HYS-sticker for (poll included)

Postby Gator_Law » Sun Nov 25, 2012 9:18 am

Definitely at CCN, others would be a really tough choice.

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Genki
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Re: Full-rides you'd turn down HYS-sticker for (poll included)

Postby Genki » Sun Nov 25, 2012 9:31 am

I turned down a full ride to Michigan, Virginia, Northwestern, Cornell for HYS and don't regret it for a second.
CCN didn't offer me jack squat, so I didn't have to make that choice. I probably would have taken a Rubenstein if it were offered though.

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TrialLawyer16
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Re: Full-rides you'd turn down HYS-sticker for (poll included)

Postby TrialLawyer16 » Sun Nov 25, 2012 4:25 pm

IAFG wrote:-_- @ the assumption of linear job prospects as you go "down."

I think a good amount of people here don't have that assumption, but the poll has to be ordered in some way. The assumption within the T-14 is generally valid, though, except for in the case of NU, for example. It's just the simplest way to order the poll.
CanadianWolf wrote:Nevertheless, if one does take the full tuition scholarship to a non-top-3, then that person's resume has the option of including a resume line stating : Copy of my Yale acceptance letter is available on request.

LOL

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PDaddy
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Re: Full-rides you'd turn down HYS-sticker for (poll included)

Postby PDaddy » Sun Nov 25, 2012 4:50 pm

hdivine wrote:I have an admissions offer to Harvard, and I'm hopeful for Yale and Stanford as well; however, I have received a full-ride offer at another T-14 school and have at least two more potential full-rides (still completing essays) for other schools. I'm interested to see which schools people would be willing to turn down HYS at sticker price for full-rides.


Very few applicants to HYS get all three. The adcoms at those schools talk, and rumor has it that, on rare occasion, they even swap students before finally sending out admission letters. With those three schools it's like the NFL draft on draft day. The very top draft picks get into all three, and that's maybe 5-10 students. A larger group gets into two of the three, and an even larger group gets into one of the three. Mind you, there are only a few students they discuss, but it happens. It's one of the worst kept admissions secrets. To get into all three you have to be truly exceptional. The schools are so different but the best applicants tend to apply to all three.

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sinfiery
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Re: Full-rides you'd turn down HYS-sticker for (poll included)

Postby sinfiery » Sun Nov 25, 2012 4:53 pm

PDaddy wrote:
hdivine wrote:I have an admissions offer to Harvard, and I'm hopeful for Yale and Stanford as well; however, I have received a full-ride offer at another T-14 school and have at least two more potential full-rides (still completing essays) for other schools. I'm interested to see which schools people would be willing to turn down HYS at sticker price for full-rides.


Very few applicants to HYS get all three. The adcoms at those schools talk, and rumor has it that, on rare occasion, they even swap students before finally sending out admission letters. With those three schools it's like the NFL draft on draft day. The very top draft picks get into all three, and that's maybe 5-10 students. A larger group gets into two of the three, and an even larger group gets into one of the three. Mind you, there are only a few students they discuss, but it happens. It's one of the worst kept admissions secrets. To get into all three you have to be truly exceptional. The schools are so different but the best applicants tend to apply to all three.

I remember reading something along the lines of:

Y has a 200 class size so they accept 200
S has a 200 class size so they accept 400 (200 off to Y)
H has a 600 class size, so they accept 1000 (400 off to S/Y)

that makes sense, albeit I could see some taking H > S but I bet it generally holds true.
Would pretty much explain the yield rates too

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PickledPanda
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Re: Full-rides you'd turn down HYS-sticker for (poll included)

Postby PickledPanda » Sun Nov 25, 2012 5:00 pm

sinfiery wrote:
Y has a 200 class size so they accept 200
S has a 200 class size so they accept 400 (200 off to Y)
H has a 600 class size, so they accept 1000 (400 off to S/Y)

that makes sense, albeit I could see some taking H > S but I bet it generally holds true.
Would pretty much explain the yield rates too


Haha yeah. That is good.

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JamMasterJ
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Re: Full-rides you'd turn down HYS-sticker for (poll included)

Postby JamMasterJ » Sun Nov 25, 2012 5:06 pm

CCN and maybe P over H
Maybe CCN over S
None over Y

hdivine
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Re: Full-rides you'd turn down HYS-sticker for (poll included)

Postby hdivine » Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:01 pm

sinfiery wrote:
PDaddy wrote:
hdivine wrote:I have an admissions offer to Harvard, and I'm hopeful for Yale and Stanford as well; however, I have received a full-ride offer at another T-14 school and have at least two more potential full-rides (still completing essays) for other schools. I'm interested to see which schools people would be willing to turn down HYS at sticker price for full-rides.


Very few applicants to HYS get all three. The adcoms at those schools talk, and rumor has it that, on rare occasion, they even swap students before finally sending out admission letters. With those three schools it's like the NFL draft on draft day. The very top draft picks get into all three, and that's maybe 5-10 students. A larger group gets into two of the three, and an even larger group gets into one of the three. Mind you, there are only a few students they discuss, but it happens. It's one of the worst kept admissions secrets. To get into all three you have to be truly exceptional. The schools are so different but the best applicants tend to apply to all three.

I remember reading something along the lines of:

Y has a 200 class size so they accept 200
S has a 200 class size so they accept 400 (200 off to Y)
H has a 600 class size, so they accept 1000 (400 off to S/Y)

that makes sense, albeit I could see some taking H > S but I bet it generally holds true.
Would pretty much explain the yield rates too


TLS states that 80% of Yale admits matriculate, so there is some crossover. Harvard and Stanford's yield rate are lower.

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JamMasterJ
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Re: Full-rides you'd turn down HYS-sticker for (poll included)

Postby JamMasterJ » Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:05 pm

hdivine wrote:
sinfiery wrote:
PDaddy wrote:
hdivine wrote:I have an admissions offer to Harvard, and I'm hopeful for Yale and Stanford as well; however, I have received a full-ride offer at another T-14 school and have at least two more potential full-rides (still completing essays) for other schools. I'm interested to see which schools people would be willing to turn down HYS at sticker price for full-rides.


Very few applicants to HYS get all three. The adcoms at those schools talk, and rumor has it that, on rare occasion, they even swap students before finally sending out admission letters. With those three schools it's like the NFL draft on draft day. The very top draft picks get into all three, and that's maybe 5-10 students. A larger group gets into two of the three, and an even larger group gets into one of the three. Mind you, there are only a few students they discuss, but it happens. It's one of the worst kept admissions secrets. To get into all three you have to be truly exceptional. The schools are so different but the best applicants tend to apply to all three.

I remember reading something along the lines of:

Y has a 200 class size so they accept 200
S has a 200 class size so they accept 400 (200 off to Y)
H has a 600 class size, so they accept 1000 (400 off to S/Y)

that makes sense, albeit I could see some taking H > S but I bet it generally holds true.
Would pretty much explain the yield rates too


TLS states that 80% of Yale admits matriculate, so there is some crossover. Harvard and Stanford's yield rate are lower.

I wonder how much of Y's matriculation rate can be tied to the ridiculously late date they start letting people in?

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SemperLegal
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Re: Full-rides you'd turn down HYS-sticker for (poll included)

Postby SemperLegal » Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:43 pm

Wormfather wrote:
JamMasterJ wrote:CCN and maybe P over H
Maybe CCN over S
None over Y


I think this might be the credited response (especially since I want biglaw)



Then you need to look at this: http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... 1025183138

and not this: http://www.top-law-schools.com/rankings.html

NU w/scholarship is just as good a choice. If you are really looking at biglaw only, than a lot of the HYS edge goes out the window, you are essentially paying the extra 200k for an opportunity that you don't really care for, academia. The only caveat to that is that YS have a softer grading policy, so you are going to have a better time, and have less of a risk.

You should also take into consideration these outcome charts, since they account (better) for selection bias: http://www.law.com/img/nlj/charts/composite.pdf


The way I see it, you are going to be fairly pissed if a huge chunk of your Biglaw salary is going to service a debt that you could have avoided; you will be straight fucked if you don't land biglaw and have that debt.


TDLR:
Really, without any interest in academia, prestige gov, or prestige PI, at HYS you are paying 200k for a safety net if you do ~10% below what you would at some of the lower T14's. I think some of that edge is also eaten up by the more extreme gunners and geniuses that you will be competing with.

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bernaldiaz
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Re: Full-rides you'd turn down HYS-sticker for (poll included)

Postby bernaldiaz » Sun Nov 25, 2012 9:22 pm

hdivine wrote:
sinfiery wrote:I remember reading something along the lines of:

Y has a 200 class size so they accept 200
S has a 200 class size so they accept 400 (200 off to Y)
H has a 600 class size, so they accept 1000 (400 off to S/Y)

that makes sense, albeit I could see some taking H > S but I bet it generally holds true.
Would pretty much explain the yield rates too


TLS states that 80% of Yale admits matriculate, so there is some crossover. Harvard and Stanford's yield rate are lower.


Yeah I was the one who first sort of came up with this a few weeks ago. The original purpose was to try to explain the yield rate, because people held it against Stanford that their yield rate was ~50% while Harvard's is 65%. This was just to show that making a few assumptions to simplify the economy (such as Yale getting all 200 admits, no HYS admits going anywhere other than HYS, etc.) that Stanford could have a lower yield rate without losing a single cross admit to Harvard. Obviously it doesn't function exactly like this in reality, but after I looked at it in comparison to the actual known yield rates I imagine that it's somewhat accurate (i.e that Stanford probably performs favorably against Harvard w/r/t cross-admits).
Last edited by bernaldiaz on Sun Nov 25, 2012 9:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Maximized
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Re: Full-rides you'd turn down HYS-sticker for (poll included)

Postby Maximized » Sun Nov 25, 2012 9:25 pm

Lol at anyone who can say they'd say no to a free education at Georgetown Law with a straight face. A single tear shed if anyone can do the same for Columbia.

RuTTgersOneL
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Re: Full-rides you'd turn down HYS-sticker for (poll included)

Postby RuTTgersOneL » Sun Nov 25, 2012 9:26 pm

Have you considered any non-T14s? If I were you I'd consider Rutgers––Camden

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moonman157
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Re: Full-rides you'd turn down HYS-sticker for (poll included)

Postby moonman157 » Sun Nov 25, 2012 9:44 pm

Maximized wrote:Lol at anyone who can say they'd say no to a free education at Georgetown Law with a straight face. A single tear shed if anyone can do the same for Columbia.



GeorgeTTTown trolling




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