Tulane Vs. Cardozo

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Lear22
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Re: Tulane Vs. Cardozo

Postby Lear22 » Fri Nov 09, 2012 12:07 am

alwayssunnyinfl wrote:And just in case you missed the point made earlier, while Cardozo is 4th in line in NYC behind Columbia, NYU, and Fordham, NYC is the legal capital of the country. You are going to be competing with every student in the T14 on top of the top students from all the schools ranked above Cardozo and Tulane. Cardozo will put you in the best position to make that happenstance connection that could land you a job. It's not a good reason to go there, and I would seriously caution you from attending any law school in that position without substantial scholarship.

Lear22 wrote:Yup. The good (and bad) thing with me is that I really have no ties anywhere and am not set on any specific area where I would like to work post law school. I love NYC, but I am not 100% set on it. That's why my no1 agenda is to go to the best school I can get into, and one that would give me as many job opportunities in as many places in the US.


All schools outside of the T14 are regional. If you want national portability, then you seriously need to retake the LSAT.


As I said, right now it's up to LSAC. They need to approve or deny my request to take a 4th LSAT and as far as they said they will let me know tomorrow. If its a yes I am 100 percent retaking in dec. I learned after being here for a while that if the question is if to retake or not, always retake (if possible).

And yes, re:actually being in NYC you are right...

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dingbat
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Re: Tulane Vs. Cardozo

Postby dingbat » Fri Nov 09, 2012 12:32 am

Lear22 wrote:... one that would give me as many job opportunities in as many places in the US.

outside of T14, that's just not realistic, because schools are regional. There are some schools that have very high employment statistics, but don't place outside their own state, which might not be somewhere you want to end up.
Other schools place predominantly in their own city, but significantly well in the general region (neighboring states, or even a little further) but don't have quite as high employment statistics.

If you can't get into a T14, figure out where you want to end up and go to a school in that region, at least

What's your score?

Lear22
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Re: Tulane Vs. Cardozo

Postby Lear22 » Fri Nov 09, 2012 12:50 am

dingbat wrote:
Lear22 wrote:... one that would give me as many job opportunities in as many places in the US.

outside of T14, that's just not realistic, because schools are regional. There are some schools that have very high employment statistics, but don't place outside their own state, which might not be somewhere you want to end up.
Other schools place predominantly in their own city, but significantly well in the general region (neighboring states, or even a little further) but don't have quite as high employment statistics.

If you can't get into a T14, figure out where you want to end up and go to a school in that region, at least

What's your score?


158. Got fee waiver from both schools.

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dingbat
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Re: Tulane Vs. Cardozo

Postby dingbat » Fri Nov 09, 2012 1:00 am

Lear22 wrote:
dingbat wrote:
Lear22 wrote:... one that would give me as many job opportunities in as many places in the US.

outside of T14, that's just not realistic, because schools are regional. There are some schools that have very high employment statistics, but don't place outside their own state, which might not be somewhere you want to end up.
Other schools place predominantly in their own city, but significantly well in the general region (neighboring states, or even a little further) but don't have quite as high employment statistics.

If you can't get into a T14, figure out where you want to end up and go to a school in that region, at least

What's your score?


158. Got fee waiver from both schools.
ouch. Are you sure you want to become a lawyer in america?

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dr123
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Re: Tulane Vs. Cardozo

Postby dr123 » Fri Nov 09, 2012 1:02 am

Have you actually been accepted to either of these schools?

Lear22
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Re: Tulane Vs. Cardozo

Postby Lear22 » Fri Nov 09, 2012 1:08 am

dingbat wrote:
Lear22 wrote:
dingbat wrote:
Lear22 wrote:... one that would give me as many job opportunities in as many places in the US.

outside of T14, that's just not realistic, because schools are regional. There are some schools that have very high employment statistics, but don't place outside their own state, which might not be somewhere you want to end up.
Other schools place predominantly in their own city, but significantly well in the general region (neighboring states, or even a little further) but don't have quite as high employment statistics.

If you can't get into a T14, figure out where you want to end up and go to a school in that region, at least

What's your score?


158. Got fee waiver from both schools.
ouch. Are you sure you want to become a lawyer in america?


Why?

Lear22
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Re: Tulane Vs. Cardozo

Postby Lear22 » Fri Nov 09, 2012 1:09 am

dr123 wrote:Have you actually been accepted to either of these schools?


No. As I said I am looking at these schools at see if its worth while to apply to tulane for example if I'm looking to work in NYC.

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dingbat
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Re: Tulane Vs. Cardozo

Postby dingbat » Fri Nov 09, 2012 1:24 am

Lear22 wrote:
dingbat wrote:
Lear22 wrote:158. Got fee waiver from both schools.
ouch. Are you sure you want to become a lawyer in america?


Why?
Put simply, with that score, you'd be looking at paying full price at Cardozo (if you get in). So, you'll be paying in excess of $150,000 for tuition alone, probably over $220,000 once we factor in cost of living and tuition increases (but not interest on any loans).
From Cardozo, you'll probably be earning about $60,000 per year, if you even get a real job (which a significant number of Cardozo grads don't). Economically, that's not exactly a promising proposition

Lear22
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Re: Tulane Vs. Cardozo

Postby Lear22 » Fri Nov 09, 2012 1:38 am

dingbat wrote:
Lear22 wrote:
dingbat wrote:
Lear22 wrote:158. Got fee waiver from both schools.
ouch. Are you sure you want to become a lawyer in america?


Why?
Put simply, with that score, you'd be looking at paying full price at Cardozo (if you get in). So, you'll be paying in excess of $150,000 for tuition alone, probably over $220,000 once we factor in cost of living and tuition increases (but not interest on any loans).
From Cardozo, you'll probably be earning about $60,000 per year, if you even get a real job (which a significant number of Cardozo grads don't). Economically, that's not exactly a promising proposition


I have yet to start applying, so I really don't know what I'll get (or won't get) and of course I will evaluate everything after I have all the information at hand. For now, I'm focused on getting as many details as I can so I can make a sound decision when the time comes.

Edit: plus, I think it's worth to say that there is life and jobs outside the t14. I will be the first to say that you should do everything you can do get into one. But if that doesn't happen, as you said as well, find a local market and do really well at school. I live in seattle and know many lawyers who went to seattle u, which is way below Cardozo and tulane. All of them have jobs and all Make a lot more than 60K. They did however finished high in their class and worked hard throughout law school to get a job. I fully understand and accept the notion of TLS. After all, it's called TLS for a reason. That said, not everyone can end up there, and those who don't but focus on doing very well at their lower ranked regional schools still have an opportunity to find work. It's not easy and you need to work hard. As much as I still aspire a t14 acceptance if I get approval to retake, there is a point to be made here IMHO that those who end up in Cardozo, or seattle, or tulane or any other lower ranked school are not doomed. They just need to work harder.

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dingbat
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Re: Tulane Vs. Cardozo

Postby dingbat » Fri Nov 09, 2012 7:54 am

Lear22 wrote:
dingbat wrote:Put simply, with that score, you'd be looking at paying full price at Cardozo (if you get in). So, you'll be paying in excess of $150,000 for tuition alone, probably over $220,000 once we factor in cost of living and tuition increases (but not interest on any loans).
From Cardozo, you'll probably be earning about $60,000 per year, if you even get a real job (which a significant number of Cardozo grads don't). Economically, that's not exactly a promising proposition


I have yet to start applying, so I really don't know what I'll get (or won't get) and of course I will evaluate everything after I have all the information at hand. For now, I'm focused on getting as many details as I can so I can make a sound decision when the time comes.

Edit: plus, I think it's worth to say that there is life and jobs outside the t14. I will be the first to say that you should do everything you can do get into one. But if that doesn't happen, as you said as well, find a local market and do really well at school. I live in seattle and know many lawyers who went to seattle u, which is way below Cardozo and tulane. All of them have jobs and all Make a lot more than 60K. They did however finished high in their class and worked hard throughout law school to get a job. I fully understand and accept the notion of TLS. After all, it's called TLS for a reason. That said, not everyone can end up there, and those who don't but focus on doing very well at their lower ranked regional schools still have an opportunity to find work. It's not easy and you need to work hard. As much as I still aspire a t14 acceptance if I get approval to retake, there is a point to be made here IMHO that those who end up in Cardozo, or seattle, or tulane or any other lower ranked school are not doomed. They just need to work harder.

I don't go to a T14, so I don't disagree there. However, it's not just a matter of working harder. when barely more than half get a decent job http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=cardozo
The problem is that you're not the only person going to Cardozo thinking you just need to work harder. There will be approximately 300 other people in your year, the vast majority of which will also work harder to try and be in the top. Don't go in thinking that working harder is a guarantee for success. A lot of really hard-working people don't make it.
I don't want you to give up your dream, I just want you to stop dreaming, face reality, know exactly how tough it can be and how much luck you will need for things to work out, and then make an informed decision.

(the fact that you asked about going to Tulane to end up in NY, indicates that you're not ready yet to make an informed decision)

Lear22
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Re: Tulane Vs. Cardozo

Postby Lear22 » Fri Nov 09, 2012 9:53 am

dingbat wrote:
Lear22 wrote:
dingbat wrote:Put simply, with that score, you'd be looking at paying full price at Cardozo (if you get in). So, you'll be paying in excess of $150,000 for tuition alone, probably over $220,000 once we factor in cost of living and tuition increases (but not interest on any loans).
From Cardozo, you'll probably be earning about $60,000 per year, if you even get a real job (which a significant number of Cardozo grads don't). Economically, that's not exactly a promising proposition


I have yet to start applying, so I really don't know what I'll get (or won't get) and of course I will evaluate everything after I have all the information at hand. For now, I'm focused on getting as many details as I can so I can make a sound decision when the time comes.

Edit: plus, I think it's worth to say that there is life and jobs outside the t14. I will be the first to say that you should do everything you can do get into one. But if that doesn't happen, as you said as well, find a local market and do really well at school. I live in seattle and know many lawyers who went to seattle u, which is way below Cardozo and tulane. All of them have jobs and all Make a lot more than 60K. They did however finished high in their class and worked hard throughout law school to get a job. I fully understand and accept the notion of TLS. After all, it's called TLS for a reason. That said, not everyone can end up there, and those who don't but focus on doing very well at their lower ranked regional schools still have an opportunity to find work. It's not easy and you need to work hard. As much as I still aspire a t14 acceptance if I get approval to retake, there is a point to be made here IMHO that those who end up in Cardozo, or seattle, or tulane or any other lower ranked school are not doomed. They just need to work harder.

I don't go to a T14, so I don't disagree there. However, it's not just a matter of working harder. when barely more than half get a decent job http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=cardozo
The problem is that you're not the only person going to Cardozo thinking you just need to work harder. There will be approximately 300 other people in your year, the vast majority of which will also work harder to try and be in the top. Don't go in thinking that working harder is a guarantee for success. A lot of really hard-working people don't make it.
I don't want you to give up your dream, I just want you to stop dreaming, face reality, know exactly how tough it can be and how much luck you will need for things to work out, and then make an informed decision.

(the fact that you asked about going to Tulane to end up in NY, indicates that you're not ready yet to make an informed decision)


Re: the end of your post, perhaps you're right, that's why I'm asking questions. I won't decide on a school before I look at every angle I can.
Because I don't have ties anywhere my first instinct is NYC (plus I know the city really well and have friends there) and maybe that's a mistake altogether.

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alwayssunnyinfl
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Re: Tulane Vs. Cardozo

Postby alwayssunnyinfl » Fri Nov 09, 2012 9:54 am

Lear22 wrote:Re: the end of your post, perhaps you're right, that's why I'm asking questions. I won't decide on a school before I look at every angle I can.
Because I don't have ties anywhere my first instinct is NYC (plus I know the city really well and have friends there) and maybe that's a mistake altogether.

Sounds like you have ties there.

Lear22
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Re: Tulane Vs. Cardozo

Postby Lear22 » Fri Nov 09, 2012 10:12 am

alwayssunnyinfl wrote:
Lear22 wrote:Re: the end of your post, perhaps you're right, that's why I'm asking questions. I won't decide on a school before I look at every angle I can.
Because I don't have ties anywhere my first instinct is NYC (plus I know the city really well and have friends there) and maybe that's a mistake altogether.

Sounds like you have ties there.


I guess you can say that broadly. But if for example I'll get a great job offer in Chicago (not talking about Cardozo or Tulane now, just on general) I won't say no just because of the fact that I know NYC really well and some of my friends live there.

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dingbat
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Re: Tulane Vs. Cardozo

Postby dingbat » Fri Nov 09, 2012 11:39 am

Lear22 wrote:I guess you can say that broadly. But if for example I'll get a great job offer in Chicago (not talking about Cardozo or Tulane now, just on general) I won't say no just because of the fact that I know NYC really well and some of my friends live there.

If you're most concerned about jobs and really couldn't care where, you mgiht want to look at regional schools in small markets, where you can get into the top school there, as opposed to going to a school far down the pecking order in a major market with a lot of competition

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PDaddy
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Re: Tulane Vs. Cardozo

Postby PDaddy » Fri Nov 09, 2012 1:34 pm

Lear22 wrote:
Tiago Splitter wrote:
Lear22 wrote:
dextermorgan wrote:NYC isn't likely coming out of Tulane. Most Tulane students stay in New Orleans or go to Texas or Florida (or back home).


from the threads I read here it appears that if you're in the top 1/3 you have a chance to strike there. Wrong?

I'd like to see those threads. Class of 2011 had 19/241 make it to New York.

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=tulane&show=ABA


I didnt say that it's bound to happen, but that theres a chance for it. so if my eyes are set on nyc and it's between these two, would you say that Cardozo would be a better choice?


Remember... In "THIS economy". For its location, Tulane students have had amazing success in NY in the past. Those days are over for the foreseeable future. While Tulane has had unusual placement range in past years (it didn't earn a reputation for being "more national" than most sub-T14 schools for nothing), the school is not recession-proof. I would be Leary of going to GULC or GWU with plans of working in NY, and both schools traditionally place better than does Tulane in that market.

Lear22
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Re: Tulane Vs. Cardozo

Postby Lear22 » Fri Nov 09, 2012 2:09 pm

Do you think that there's an argument to be made about the fact that we will start school in 09/13 and finish second half oh 2016 in regards to the job market and opportunities for non t14 graduates?

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dingbat
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Re: Tulane Vs. Cardozo

Postby dingbat » Fri Nov 09, 2012 3:09 pm

Lear22 wrote:Do you think that there's an argument to be made about the fact that we will start school in 09/13 and finish second half oh 2016 in regards to the job market and opportunities for non t14 graduates?

Yeah - that you have no idea what the economy will look like in 2014 when you're applying for jobs

Lear22
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Re: Tulane Vs. Cardozo

Postby Lear22 » Sat Nov 10, 2012 1:23 pm

yup. that is true. Hopefully I'll get an approval from LSAC to retake and all will be well.

Lear22
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Re: Tulane Vs. Cardozo

Postby Lear22 » Sat Nov 10, 2012 1:25 pm

Do you think that it's still more 'national' (as much as it can be with it's ranking etc.) than other schools, or is that long gone and if you don't want to stay in the area just don't go there.

sadsituationJD
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Re: Tulane Vs. Cardozo

Postby sadsituationJD » Sat Nov 10, 2012 1:46 pm

'Bozo vs. Tulane lol. That's like deciding between a rotted-out 1985 Yugo and a 1979 Ford Pinto with a blown head gasket. Both will lead to tremendous debt, waste 3+ years of your life, and land you on the unemployment line.

HTH.

Lear22
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Re: Tulane Vs. Cardozo

Postby Lear22 » Sat Nov 10, 2012 1:51 pm

sadsituationJD wrote:'Bozo vs. Tulane lol. That's like deciding between a rotted-out 1985 Yugo and a 1979 Ford Pinto with a blown head gasket. Both will lead to tremendous debt, waste 3+ years of your life, and land you on the unemployment line.

HTH.


Thanks for your input.

rad lulz
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Re: Tulane Vs. Cardozo

Postby rad lulz » Sat Nov 10, 2012 1:54 pm

sadsituationJD wrote:'Bozo vs. Tulane lol. That's like deciding between a rotted-out 1985 Yugo and a 1979 Ford Pinto with a blown head gasket. Both will lead to tremendous debt, waste 3+ years of your life, and land you on the unemployment line.

HTH.

Naw the bank can repossess the Yugo or the Pinto.

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Aberzombie1892
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Re: Tulane Vs. Cardozo

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Sat Nov 10, 2012 2:45 pm

If you want NYC and only NYC, Cardozo. For other situations, Tulane. While Tulane isn't what it once was, it's important to note that notably less than 50% of the class ended up in Louisiana in the worst legal market since WW2. If you have ties to somewhere and are willing to return there, Tulane will do okay for mid law. But, if you are trying to enter a new market, you will need to at least be from the region (if not the state) or have great grades.

That being said, is Tulane a big law feeder? No, but neither is Cardozo. In fact, the notion of big law from either is laughable. I'm not sure about Cardozo, but
Tulane's placement suffers a little due to the fact that the CDO has a close relationship with local smaller firms. As a result of that, the CDO will push some "prestigious" local firms over larger regional firms. It's great and all, but it hurts national numbers. For example, if the top 20% focused only on NYC, they would do quite well. But the CDO pushes local firms like Stone Pigman or Chaffe McCall over NYC firms, and it makes Tulane look a little worse than it is. But this isn't the point.

The point is, if you want NYC and only NYC, Cardozo. If you are looking where you have ties or at least in that region, Tulane. Of course, all of this assumes that you are attending for a reasonable price. Considering you haven't applied to either, I imagine Tulane will give you a better scholarship offer as 80%+ of the class receives a scholarship of some kind. Feel free to private message me if you have any specific questions about Tulane.

Lear22
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Re: Tulane Vs. Cardozo

Postby Lear22 » Sat Nov 10, 2012 3:14 pm

Aberzombie1892 wrote:If you want NYC and only NYC, Cardozo. For other situations, Tulane. While Tulane isn't what it once was, it's important to note that notably less than 50% of the class ended up in Louisiana in the worst legal market since WW2. If you have ties to somewhere and are willing to return there, Tulane will do okay for mid law. But, if you are trying to enter a new market, you will need to at least be from the region (if not the state) or have great grades.

That being said, is Tulane a big law feeder? No, but neither is Cardozo. In fact, the notion of big law from either is laughable. I'm not sure about Cardozo, but
Tulane's placement suffers a little due to the fact that the CDO has a close relationship with local smaller firms. As a result of that, the CDO will push some "prestigious" local firms over larger regional firms. It's great and all, but it hurts national numbers. For example, if the top 20% focused only on NYC, they would do quite well. But the CDO pushes local firms like Stone Pigman or Chaffe McCall over NYC firms, and it makes Tulane look a little worse than it is. But this isn't the point.

The point is, if you want NYC and only NYC, Cardozo. If you are looking where you have ties or at least in that region, Tulane. Of course, all of this assumes that you are attending for a reasonable price. Considering you haven't applied to either, I imagine Tulane will give you a better scholarship offer as 80%+ of the class receives a scholarship of some kind. Feel free to private message me if you have any specific questions about Tulane.


Thanks for this. It's extremely helpful. I have no ties anywhere (accept for the fact that I'v been Living in seattle {largely because of school}) and before that spent a few years in NC for work. I find the whole 'ties' thing to be really interesting. I truly don't get why a firm will care where my family is from, if I have ties somewhere like own a home there or something of a sort. Maybe it's because I'm not originally from the US but I just don't seem to 'get' the whole notion of ties when taking about finding a job post school.

rad lulz
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Re: Tulane Vs. Cardozo

Postby rad lulz » Sat Nov 10, 2012 3:19 pm

Lear22 wrote:
Aberzombie1892 wrote:If you want NYC and only NYC, Cardozo. For other situations, Tulane. While Tulane isn't what it once was, it's important to note that notably less than 50% of the class ended up in Louisiana in the worst legal market since WW2. If you have ties to somewhere and are willing to return there, Tulane will do okay for mid law. But, if you are trying to enter a new market, you will need to at least be from the region (if not the state) or have great grades.

That being said, is Tulane a big law feeder? No, but neither is Cardozo. In fact, the notion of big law from either is laughable. I'm not sure about Cardozo, but
Tulane's placement suffers a little due to the fact that the CDO has a close relationship with local smaller firms. As a result of that, the CDO will push some "prestigious" local firms over larger regional firms. It's great and all, but it hurts national numbers. For example, if the top 20% focused only on NYC, they would do quite well. But the CDO pushes local firms like Stone Pigman or Chaffe McCall over NYC firms, and it makes Tulane look a little worse than it is. But this isn't the point.

The point is, if you want NYC and only NYC, Cardozo. If you are looking where you have ties or at least in that region, Tulane. Of course, all of this assumes that you are attending for a reasonable price. Considering you haven't applied to either, I imagine Tulane will give you a better scholarship offer as 80%+ of the class receives a scholarship of some kind. Feel free to private message me if you have any specific questions about Tulane.


Thanks for this. It's extremely helpful. I have no ties anywhere (accept for the fact that I'v been Living in seattle {largely because of school}) and before that spent a few years in NC for work. I find the whole 'ties' thing to be really interesting. I truly don't get why a firm will care where my family is from, if I have ties somewhere like own a home there or something of a sort. Maybe it's because I'm not originally from the US but I just don't seem to 'get' the whole notion of ties when taking about finding a job post school.

New associates aren't productive so they don't want you to bail for someone else when you have experience. Also especially in 2ndary markets they're gonna want to you get involved in the community and put down roots and get to know people because frankly it's better for business.




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