University of Illinois Class of 2016 (with Dean Ray)

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FloridaCoastalorbust
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Re: University of Illinois Class of 2016 (with Dean Ray)

Postby FloridaCoastalorbust » Fri Nov 02, 2012 12:23 pm

hi
Last edited by FloridaCoastalorbust on Fri Nov 02, 2012 12:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Dean_Ray
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Re: University of Illinois Class of 2016 (with Dean Ray)

Postby Dean_Ray » Fri Nov 02, 2012 12:30 pm

Ludovico Technique wrote:Source? Not saying you're wrong but that runs counter to the anecdotal evidence I've seen on TLS. A lot of people can improve with a retake



LT: LSAC repeater data & my own anecdotal evidence based on reviewing actual repeat scores of applicants. Note that I said by a significant amount. I'm not saying you can't improve a score by a significant margin and that students never do. Just keep in mind (a) the effort you put in the first time; (b) your true willingness to put in MORE time to prepare the second time; and (c) any time advantage you are giving up by delaying your application. It is unquestionably a personal decision.

Best,

RR

Dean_Ray
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Re: University of Illinois Class of 2016 (with Dean Ray)

Postby Dean_Ray » Fri Nov 02, 2012 12:48 pm

nsideirish wrote:What kind of scholarships does UofI give out? Any chance at 50% or full scholarships? What kind of numbers would qualify prospective students for such scholarships?


nsideirish: The College of Law automatically reviews all admitted applicants' files for merit-based tuition scholarships. Most of our students do receive some merit-based tuition scholarship. 100.00% tuition scholarships are rare, but not unheard of. I can't give specific numbers but, generally speaking, your UGPA and LSAT, combined with how early in the admissions cycle you apply, determine your scholarship award.

Additionally, the College of Law offers the "Illinois Guarantee." This means that: (a) Your tuition is guaranteeed. The tuition rate you pay your 1L year will be your tuition rate for your 2L and 3L years; and (b) Your scholarship is guaranteed for all three years. We do not require a minimum GPA to retain your scholarship. We only require that you remain in good standing.

Best,

RR

svergara
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Re: University of Illinois Class of 2016 (with Dean Ray)

Postby svergara » Sat Nov 03, 2012 3:34 am

On the subject of retaking, what effect would this hold over an applicant who applied ED but also registered to retake in December? Is his application considered complete with his provided score or is he automatically deferred to the regular admissions pool?

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Uncle.Joe
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Re: University of Illinois Class of 2016 (with Dean Ray)

Postby Uncle.Joe » Sat Nov 03, 2012 10:15 am

Is there any employment data on out of staters who go to UIUC v. in staters?

I know that the Chicago legal market is reasonably exclusive so I wonder if this presents an additional hurdle that manifests in a statistically significant way.

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NR3C1
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Re: University of Illinois Class of 2016 (with Dean Ray)

Postby NR3C1 » Sat Nov 03, 2012 12:26 pm

Dean_Ray wrote:Hello, Now that applications are in full swing, I started this thread to provide an opportunity for applicants or prospective applicants to ask questions about Illinois Law or the application process generally. We will begin reviewing ED applications this month.

Illinois Law has waived its application fee for all applicants for the 2012-2013 cycle.

I look forward to answering your questions.

Best,

Rebecca Ray
Assistant Dean for Admissions & Financial Aid
University of Illinois College of Law

How many applications have you gotten so far this year vs. the same week last year? If you do not have a number, can you give us an estimate if more or less vs. last year?

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blurbz
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Re: University of Illinois Class of 2016 (with Dean Ray)

Postby blurbz » Sat Nov 03, 2012 3:40 pm

Uncle.Joe wrote:Is there any employment data on out of staters who go to UIUC v. in staters?

I know that the Chicago legal market is reasonably exclusive so I wonder if this presents an additional hurdle that manifests in a statistically significant way.



I have no statistics for you, but I saw no significant difference when I went through OCI last year. I am from out of state and was competitive in state and out of state for big law jobs. My out of state friends who had good grades were similarly competitive in state and out of state. Chicago is a tough market to break into, but if you have the credentials you shouldn't have a problem.

Dean_Ray
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Re: University of Illinois Class of 2016 (with Dean Ray)

Postby Dean_Ray » Mon Nov 05, 2012 12:12 pm

svergara wrote:On the subject of retaking, what effect would this hold over an applicant who applied ED but also registered to retake in December? Is his application considered complete with his provided score or is he automatically deferred to the regular admissions pool?


svergara: If we see that a candidate has a pending LSAT score, then the applicant's application is not complete. So, yes, the application would be deferred to the regular admissions pool.

Best,

RR
Last edited by Dean_Ray on Mon Nov 05, 2012 2:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Dean_Ray
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Re: University of Illinois Class of 2016 (with Dean Ray)

Postby Dean_Ray » Mon Nov 05, 2012 12:19 pm

Uncle.Joe wrote:Is there any employment data on out of staters who go to UIUC v. in staters?

I know that the Chicago legal market is reasonably exclusive so I wonder if this presents an additional hurdle that manifests in a statistically significant way.


Uncle.Joe: I do not have any data on placement of nonresidents vs. residents. As someone who was actively involved in recruiting at two Chicago firms, for candidates coming from Illinois law schools, Chicago legal employers are generally more concerned with your academic performance than where you are from originally. Chicago is the second largest legal market in the U.S. (after NYC). The proximity of the Chicago market is an advantage for all of our students (resident and nonresident).

Best,

RR

Dean_Ray
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Re: University of Illinois Class of 2016 (with Dean Ray)

Postby Dean_Ray » Mon Nov 05, 2012 12:24 pm

NR3C1 wrote:How many applications have you gotten so far this year vs. the same week last year? If you do not have a number, can you give us an estimate if more or less vs. last year?


NR3C1: Applications are down again this year -- nationally, regionally, and at the College of Law.

Best,

RR

ajax
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Re: University of Illinois Class of 2016 (with Dean Ray)

Postby ajax » Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:49 am

Dean_Ray wrote:All, I know that many of you received your LSAT scores last night. And that some of you may be considering retaking the exam in December. There are two points to consider.

First, we review applications on a rolling basis. The order in which your application is reviewed is determined by the date that application is completed. If we see a pending LSAT score, your application is not complete and it will not be placed in the queue for review until we receive that LSAT score, assuming we have all other materials.

Second, most people do not change their LSAT score by a significant margin by retaking the exam unless there were extenuating circumstances before or during the first exam (e.g., getting mugged on the way to the exam --happened to a friend of mine).

With these two pieces of information, I would encourage those applicants considering retaking the exam in December to weigh the likelihood of increasing the score by 4 or 5 points against being later in the admissions cycle. Only you know how hard you prepared for the first exam and whether you're willing to put in MORE work to retake the exam.

Best,

RR



Retaking the LSAT can be very beneficial. It is disheartening to see an assistant dean get on a message board and say that it isn't.

http://insidethelawschoolscam.blogspot. ... dents.html

http://www.lsac.org/lsacresources/data/ ... erdata.pdf

Readers, please take what Dean Ray is taking with a grain of salt.

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Re: University of Illinois Class of 2016 (with Dean Ray)

Postby Dean_Ray » Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:26 am

ajax wrote:
Retaking the LSAT can be very beneficial. It is disheartening to see an assistant dean get on a message board and say that it isn't.

http://insidethelawschoolscam.blogspot. ... dents.html

http://www.lsac.org/lsacresources/data/ ... erdata.pdf

Readers, please take what Dean Ray is taking with a grain of salt.


Ajax: Thanks for your comment. My post on the topic of retaking was intended to encourage applicants to weigh the likelihood of getting a higher score against the delay in completing their application. This is also why I encourage prospective applicants to take the June LSAT. The delay in review caused by retaking in October is not disadvantageous.

My presence on this board is intended to increase dialogue and answer applicant questions about law school admissions, particularly for applicants who are interested in applying to Illinois Law, but for others, as well.

Best,

RR

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Ludo!
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Re: University of Illinois Class of 2016 (with Dean Ray)

Postby Ludo! » Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:40 am

There is nothing inherently wrong with telling people to think before retaking, but when it comes from an admissions person it sounds disingenuous. It comes off as - don't bother retaking, just settle! The difference a few more points on the LSAT can get you can be life changing.

timbs4339
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Re: University of Illinois Class of 2016 (with Dean Ray)

Postby timbs4339 » Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:54 pm

Ludovico Technique wrote:There is nothing inherently wrong with telling people to think before retaking, but when it comes from an admissions person it sounds disingenuous. It comes off as - don't bother retaking, just settle! The difference a few more points on the LSAT can get you can be life changing.


+1

You don't need a huge bump. 70% of applicants improve and most do so by 2-3 points, which can put them at the 75% of a school where they were previously at the 25%. That 2-3 could also be worth tens of thousands in scholarship money. I certainly think a potential savings of 40-50K (the equivalent of a FT job for a year) is worth applying a month or two later.

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NR3C1
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Re: University of Illinois Class of 2016 (with Dean Ray)

Postby NR3C1 » Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:01 pm

Dean_Ray wrote:Ajax: Thanks for your comment. My post on the topic of retaking was intended to encourage applicants to weigh the likelihood of getting a higher score against the delay in completing their application. This is also why I encourage prospective applicants to take the June LSAT. The delay in review caused by retaking in October is not disadvantageous.

My presence on this board is intended to increase dialogue and answer applicant questions about law school admissions, particularly for applicants who are interested in applying to Illinois Law, but for others, as well.

Best,

RR

LOL. Your presence on this board is NOT intended to "increase dialogue and answer applicant questions about law school admissions"; what you are trying to do is increase the interest in Illinois Law, thereby increasing the number of applications Illinois Law gets. Please go away. Your "advice" is neither needed nor desired. Instead of trolling here, why don't you go and visit Dean Pless.

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vanwinkle
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Re: University of Illinois Class of 2016 (with Dean Ray)

Postby vanwinkle » Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:10 pm

NR3C1 wrote:LOL. Your presence on this board is NOT intended to "increase dialogue and answer applicant questions about law school admissions"; what you are trying to do is increase the interest in Illinois Law, thereby increasing the number of applications Illinois Law gets. Please go away. Your "advice" is neither needed nor desired. Instead of trolling here, why don't you go and visit Dean Pless.

Having a law school dean here and answering our questions is a privilege. If we must choose between the dean and a poster who can't stand the dean, guess who we'll choose.

In other words, telling people to go away is the moderators' job; for example:

--ImageRemoved--

Dean Ray, apologies on behalf of TLS. Please send me a PM if this happens again and I'll handle it.

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Paraflam
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Re: University of Illinois Class of 2016 (with Dean Ray)

Postby Paraflam » Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:40 pm

Dean Ray,

Thanks for taking questions. Suzanne Rogers came to speak at my school a few weeks ago and mentioned a new program Illinois is introducing this year to help place grads in law firms in Chicago. Can you explain more about this?

Dean_Ray
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Re: University of Illinois Class of 2016 (with Dean Ray)

Postby Dean_Ray » Tue Nov 06, 2012 2:15 pm

Paraflam wrote:Dean Ray,

Thanks for taking questions. Suzanne Rogers came to speak at my school a few weeks ago and mentioned a new program Illinois is introducing this year to help place grads in law firms in Chicago. Can you explain more about this?



Paraflam: Last summer, Illinois Law introduced the Chicago Program. This was a 2-credit Summer Term class offered at the Illini Center in downtown Chicago. The class, which was available to rising 2Ls and 3Ls, featured Illinois Law alumni and other distinguished legal professionals, including judges, partners at large law firms, and recruiters, as guest instructors. One of the goals of the Program is to facilitate student contact with legal employers in Chicago and elsewhere. Last summer, the Chicago Program included a mock interview program.

The Chicago Program was well-received. We anticipate expanding the Program this year. The details of this year's offerings are being finalized, but it is shaping up to be a very exciting addition to Illinois Law's curriculum.

Best,

RR

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Paraflam
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Re: University of Illinois Class of 2016 (with Dean Ray)

Postby Paraflam » Tue Nov 06, 2012 2:28 pm

Dean_Ray wrote:Paraflam: Last summer, Illinois Law introduced the Chicago Program. This was a 2-credit Summer Term class offered at the Illini Center in downtown Chicago. The class, which was available to rising 2Ls and 3Ls, featured Illinois Law alumni and other distinguished legal professionals, including judges, partners at large law firms, and recruiters, as guest instructors. One of the goals of the Program is to facilitate student contact with legal employers in Chicago and elsewhere. Last summer, the Chicago Program included a mock interview program.

The Chicago Program was well-received. We anticipate expanding the Program this year. The details of this year's offerings are being finalized, but it is shaping up to be a very exciting addition to Illinois Law's curriculum.

Best,

RR

Dean Ray,

Thanks for your quick response. How many of the students that participated in the program have made connections with legal employers that resulted in a job offer? When guest instructors are not scheduled, what does the class consist of? What are the other goals of the program besides facilitating student contact with employers?

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Re: University of Illinois Class of 2016 (with Dean Ray)

Postby Dean_Ray » Tue Nov 06, 2012 2:39 pm

Paraflam wrote:Dean Ray,

Thanks for your quick response. How many of the students that participated in the program have made connections with legal employers that resulted in a job offer? When guest instructors are not scheduled, what does the class consist of? What are the other goals of the program besides facilitating student contact with employers?


Paraflam: The course offered this Summer, entitled The Legal Profession, was taught by Dean Bruce Smith. The course examined, among other subjects, the economics and management of large law firms, the impact of technology on the sourcing of legal work, and litigation finance. We anticipate offering courses in addition to The Legal Profession in the expanded Program.

Other goals of the Program include providing enhanced skills-related training; broadening exposure to specialized areas of legal practice; and orienting students to the global legal market. I do not have numbers regarding job offers for students who participated in the Program this Summer.

Best,

RR

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20160810
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Re: University of Illinois Class of 2016 (with Dean Ray)

Postby 20160810 » Tue Nov 06, 2012 2:56 pm

Dean_Ray wrote:
nsideirish wrote:What kind of scholarships does UofI give out? Any chance at 50% or full scholarships? What kind of numbers would qualify prospective students for such scholarships?


nsideirish: The College of Law automatically reviews all admitted applicants' files for merit-based tuition scholarships. Most of our students do receive some merit-based tuition scholarship. 100.00% tuition scholarships are rare, but not unheard of. I can't give specific numbers but, generally speaking, your UGPA and LSAT, combined with how early in the admissions cycle you apply, determine your scholarship award.

Additionally, the College of Law offers the "Illinois Guarantee." This means that: (a) Your tuition is guaranteeed. The tuition rate you pay your 1L year will be your tuition rate for your 2L and 3L years; and (b) Your scholarship is guaranteed for all three years. We do not require a minimum GPA to retain your scholarship. We only require that you remain in good standing.
Best,

RR

The bolded is exceedingly cool and I wish more law schools did this. What do you think of requiring law schools, relatedly, to disclose to all incoming students (1.) the percentage of graduates who go on to work for NLJ-250 firms (or any other index of large, reputable law firms that pay enough to let students pay off loans in 5-10 years) and (2.) the percentage of 2Ls who lost their merit scholarships from the previous year?

skri65
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Re: University of Illinois Class of 2016 (with Dean Ray)

Postby skri65 » Tue Nov 06, 2012 7:51 pm

Last cycle, applications were down to the extent that medians were nationally significantly effected. I know it's early, but do you see medians (not at your law school specifically, but T1 schools in general) being effected to the same degree this cycle as they were last cycle?

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blurbz
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Re: University of Illinois Class of 2016 (with Dean Ray)

Postby blurbz » Wed Nov 07, 2012 10:51 am

skri65 wrote:Last cycle, applications were down to the extent that medians were nationally significantly effected. I know it's early, but do you see medians (not at your law school specifically, but T1 schools in general) being effected to the same degree this cycle as they were last cycle?



As a student here, I wish I could comment on the medians from last cycle but in order to somehow advance new institutional goals of transparency, the administration has refused to release such basic and easily calculated data.

ajax
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Re: University of Illinois Class of 2016 (with Dean Ray)

Postby ajax » Wed Nov 07, 2012 11:36 am

vanwinkle wrote:
NR3C1 wrote:LOL. Your presence on this board is NOT intended to "increase dialogue and answer applicant questions about law school admissions"; what you are trying to do is increase the interest in Illinois Law, thereby increasing the number of applications Illinois Law gets. Please go away. Your "advice" is neither needed nor desired. Instead of trolling here, why don't you go and visit Dean Pless.

Having a law school dean here and answering our questions is a privilege. If we must choose between the dean and a poster who can't stand the dean, guess who we'll choose.

In other words, telling people to go away is the moderators' job; for example:

--ImageRemoved--

Dean Ray, apologies on behalf of TLS. Please send me a PM if this happens again and I'll handle it.



I think everyone here would agree having Dean Ray here to answer questions is a privilege. However, I think most would also agree that Dean Ray isn't just answering questions, she's trying to sell her law school, and sometimes to the detriment of others (encouraging those to not retake). There is nothing wrong with asking a dean to leave in this case-where prospective students could be harmed because of her "advice".

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Rahviveh
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Re: University of Illinois Class of 2016 (with Dean Ray)

Postby Rahviveh » Wed Nov 07, 2012 12:47 pm

ajax wrote:
vanwinkle wrote:
NR3C1 wrote:LOL. Your presence on this board is NOT intended to "increase dialogue and answer applicant questions about law school admissions"; what you are trying to do is increase the interest in Illinois Law, thereby increasing the number of applications Illinois Law gets. Please go away. Your "advice" is neither needed nor desired. Instead of trolling here, why don't you go and visit Dean Pless.

Having a law school dean here and answering our questions is a privilege. If we must choose between the dean and a poster who can't stand the dean, guess who we'll choose.

In other words, telling people to go away is the moderators' job; for example:

--ImageRemoved--

Dean Ray, apologies on behalf of TLS. Please send me a PM if this happens again and I'll handle it.



I think everyone here would agree having Dean Ray here to answer questions is a privilege. However, I think most would also agree that Dean Ray isn't just answering questions, she's trying to sell her law school, and sometimes to the detriment of others (encouraging those to not retake). There is nothing wrong with asking a dean to leave in this case-where prospective students could be harmed because of her "advice".


I don't think its necessary to leave, but TLS'ers should be able to come in here and disagree/correct her in a civil and polite manner if the situation calls for it.

The forum's regulars in general have done a great job of spreading the gospel of retaking the LSAT. Having a law school dean come on here and discourage people from retaking is extremely damaging if it isnt countered.




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