Least Portable T-14 Law Degree

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

Which T-14 Law Degree is the Least Portable?

University of Chicago
8
2%
NYU
13
4%
UC Berkeley
27
8%
University of Pennsylvania
7
2%
University of Virginia
33
10%
University of Michigan
28
8%
Duke University
37
11%
Northwestern University
27
8%
Cornell University
76
22%
Georgetown University
84
25%
 
Total votes: 340

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dingbat
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Re: Least Portable T-14 Law Degree

Postby dingbat » Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:37 pm

bizzybone1313 wrote:
dingbat wrote:
bizzybone1313 wrote:If a politician has more education, it is a wider base of knowledge to draw from. If a politician has more education, they won't be embarassed in their city, district or state due to not being able to respond in an articulate, intelligent manner.

Have you actually been following politics this past decade?

I assume you are referring to George "Dubya" Bush. We all know how that turned out don't we? What is really ironic is his father actually deserved two terms a lot more than his son.

Actually I was thinking of any of a number of senators & congressmen who are far and far worse

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Icculus
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Re: Least Portable T-14 Law Degree

Postby Icculus » Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:40 pm

In terms of your actual question about a law degree, VW was on point when he pointed out most of the electorate couldn't care less where your degree is from, and some places it could be considered a negative. If you are serious about politics your best bet is to pick a place you want to get started, and if you are absolutely dead set on getting a law degree, then get it at the best school in that state.

For Colorado, CU is the answer.

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elterrible78
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Re: Least Portable T-14 Law Degree

Postby elterrible78 » Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:50 pm

bizzybone1313 wrote:
elterrible78 wrote:
vanwinkle wrote: It's not like there aren't already a thousand other people ready to take your place in line.


This is, and has been, the OPs primary problem throughout the entire course of this thread. He (or she, I guess) cannot and will not give up on the idea that he (or she, I guess) is some kind of special snowflake, whether it be the child of immigrants thing, or the "wanting to make a difference" thing. Every undergraduate institution in the country is absolutely overflowing with kids who have had some course or other that exposed them to poverty or inequality or race theory or gender theory or whatever else is going, and instead of actually channeling that indignation towards creating some kind of positive change, end up turning into self-righteous little d-bags who want to be President, singing democracy and fair trade and equality for all and all that good shit (and by good shit, I mean good shit) but deep down they know they'd swap it all for a benevolent dictatorship, just as long as they could be the dictators.


Great. I would love to hear what you guys think are the special snowflakes of law school admissions (especially at the T-14). Because you fucking know what, it isn't the sons and daughters of upper middle class or upper class parents. Please enlighten me.


I'm not the son or daughter of an upper middle class or upper class family. I'm not a special snowflake, either. In the time I have spent reading these forums, I don't think I have ever, ever run across anyone nearly as full of himself as you seem to be.

Maybe you're special after all!

skiingimpy
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Re: Least Portable T-14 Law Degree

Postby skiingimpy » Mon Dec 17, 2012 10:06 pm

If you tried to run for any kind of office in Colorado, your opponent is going to run their entire campaign around two things: a) your being from Texas (just like g-dub and Rick perry) and b) your being in bed with the energy companies, (FRACKING!! zomg!). And their going to kill you by 20 points.

Been amply covered earlier, but lol at you having 'connections' that would help you get a job in Colorado with a T-14 degree.

Please don't yell at me for feeding the trolls.

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bizzybone1313
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Re: Least Portable T-14 Law Degree

Postby bizzybone1313 » Mon Dec 17, 2012 10:16 pm

elterrible78 wrote:
bizzybone1313 wrote:
elterrible78 wrote:
vanwinkle wrote: It's not like there aren't already a thousand other people ready to take your place in line.


This is, and has been, the OPs primary problem throughout the entire course of this thread. He (or she, I guess) cannot and will not give up on the idea that he (or she, I guess) is some kind of special snowflake, whether it be the child of immigrants thing, or the "wanting to make a difference" thing. Every undergraduate institution in the country is absolutely overflowing with kids who have had some course or other that exposed them to poverty or inequality or race theory or gender theory or whatever else is going, and instead of actually channeling that indignation towards creating some kind of positive change, end up turning into self-righteous little d-bags who want to be President, singing democracy and fair trade and equality for all and all that good shit (and by good shit, I mean good shit) but deep down they know they'd swap it all for a benevolent dictatorship, just as long as they could be the dictators.


Great. I would love to hear what you guys think are the special snowflakes of law school admissions (especially at the T-14). Because you fucking know what, it isn't the sons and daughters of upper middle class or upper class parents. Please enlighten me.


I'm not the son or daughter of an upper middle class or upper class family. I'm not a special snowflake, either. In the time I have spent reading these forums, I don't think I have ever, ever run across anyone nearly as full of himself as you seem to be.

Maybe you're special after all!


I don't really think I am a special snowflake. I am a pretty chill guy in real life. I just responded to those people in that particular thread in an obnoxious manner, because their posts were obnoxious in the first place.

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twenty
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Re: Least Portable T-14 Law Degree

Postby twenty » Mon Dec 17, 2012 10:42 pm

It has occurred to me that a PhD is probably more valuable than a JD for politics (at least state and local), because you can put Dr. in front of your name and no one knows what the heck it's even in -- and it's often free.

Also, most LRAPs don't seem to cover partisan politics.

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bizzybone1313
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Re: Least Portable T-14 Law Degree

Postby bizzybone1313 » Mon Dec 17, 2012 10:46 pm

twentypercentmore wrote:It has occurred to me that a PhD is probably more valuable than a JD for politics (at least state and local), because you can put Dr. in front of your name and no one knows what the heck it's even in -- and it's often free.

Also, most LRAPs don't seem to cover partisan politics.


Yep, if it wasn't so time consuming and stressful to complete a PhD. But then again, that is why a PhD means so much at least in the right field anyways. I am going to be relatively broke. That is ok. I can make a living with $60K. That is enough money for me.

09042014
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Re: Least Portable T-14 Law Degree

Postby 09042014 » Mon Dec 17, 2012 10:47 pm

twentypercentmore wrote:It has occurred to me that a PhD is probably more valuable than a JD for politics (at least state and local), because you can put Dr. in front of your name and no one knows what the heck it's even in -- and it's often free.

Also, most LRAPs don't seem to cover partisan politics.


Yea because people want to elect some fart sniffing asshole who pretends writing a long paper about bisexual asian twink subcultures and their effect on pre-vietnam American biker gangs, makes him a doctor.

LOL at education being anything but a potential negative for politics. Wanna be a politician? Get involved locally and run for shitty small offices.

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hume85
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Re: Least Portable T-14 Law Degree

Postby hume85 » Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:16 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
twentypercentmore wrote:It has occurred to me that a PhD is probably more valuable than a JD for politics (at least state and local), because you can put Dr. in front of your name and no one knows what the heck it's even in -- and it's often free.

Also, most LRAPs don't seem to cover partisan politics.


Yea because people want to elect some fart sniffing asshole who pretends writing a long paper about bisexual asian twink subcultures and their effect on pre-vietnam American biker gangs, makes him a doctor.

LOL at education being anything but a potential negative for politics. Wanna be a politician? Get involved locally and run for shitty small offices.


I don't know, bro, I think he was trolling. He can't be that dumb.

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bizzybone1313
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Re: Least Portable T-14 Law Degree

Postby bizzybone1313 » Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:20 pm

hume85 wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
twentypercentmore wrote:It has occurred to me that a PhD is probably more valuable than a JD for politics (at least state and local), because you can put Dr. in front of your name and no one knows what the heck it's even in -- and it's often free.

Also, most LRAPs don't seem to cover partisan politics.


Yea because people want to elect some fart sniffing asshole who pretends writing a long paper about bisexual asian twink subcultures and their effect on pre-vietnam American biker gangs, makes him a doctor.

LOL at education being anything but a potential negative for politics. Wanna be a politician? Get involved locally and run for shitty small offices.


I don't know, bro, I think he was trolling. He can't be that dumb.


I am not trolling. I just don't agree with you guys that education does not matter for a political career.

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dingbat
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Re: Least Portable T-14 Law Degree

Postby dingbat » Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:22 pm

bizzybone1313 wrote:I am not trolling. I just don't agree with you guys that education does not matter for a political career.

--ImageRemoved--

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bizzybone1313
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Re: Least Portable T-14 Law Degree

Postby bizzybone1313 » Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:26 pm

dingbat wrote:
bizzybone1313 wrote:I am not trolling. I just don't agree with you guys that education does not matter for a political career.

--ImageRemoved--


Lol. I bet Senator McCain tosses and turns in his bed every night and asks himself this: Why did I pick that bimbo?

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dingbat
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Re: Least Portable T-14 Law Degree

Postby dingbat » Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:28 pm

bizzybone1313 wrote:I bet Senator McCain tosses and turns in his bed every night and asks himself this: Why did I pick that bimbo?

Don't worry, nobody will ever think that about you

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Icculus
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Re: Least Portable T-14 Law Degree

Postby Icculus » Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:29 pm

Desert Fox wrote:LOL at education being anything but a potential negative for politics. Wanna be a politician? Get involved locally and run for shitty small offices.


This. 1000 times this.

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danquayle
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Re: Least Portable T-14 Law Degree

Postby danquayle » Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:12 am

Robbin Blue wrote:
bizzybone1313 wrote:
Great. I would love to hear what you guys think are the special snowflakes of law school admissions (especially at the T-14). Because you fucking know what, it isn't the sons and daughters of upper middle class or upper class parents. Please enlighten me.


Two things.

One, I'm still not sure why you aren't applying to CU. It would establish the ties you need and give you a much better understanding of what issues the people of Colorado find important. You won't get either of those from a T-14. Given your Texas roots, one would expect you'd want to take any chance to establish roots to Colorado you could get.

Two, dealing with potentially abrasive people (especially when they genuinely do want to help) is a hell of a lot more important to politics than any law school degree. I'd vote for a high school dropout over someone with a JD from Yale who acted like a brat because he got answers he didn't like. We're trying to help. That's better than anyone will do for you if you ever do get elected.


Times a thousand. It's quite honestly a no brainer for this guy to go to CU if he really wants to be in Colorado politics. Honestly, at some level, being from a better out of state school can be held against you.

You don't think they'll assume you're an opportunistic carpetbagger if you just up and show up in their neighborhood with a fancy degree and no relationship with the area?

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vanwinkle
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Re: Least Portable T-14 Law Degree

Postby vanwinkle » Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:21 am

bizzybone1313 wrote:If a politician has more education, it is a wider base of knowledge to draw from. If a politician has more education, they won't be embarassed in their city, district or state due to not being able to respond in an articulate, intelligent manner. If a politician has more education, when and if they fail they can pursue something else.

These things may be true. However, they do not necessarily equate to 1) getting a law degree and 2) getting a T-14 law degree. You can get educated without going to law school, and you can certainly do it without getting educated at a T-14 law school. This may surprise you to learn, but you don't really get a better education at a T-14 than at a typical T1 or T2 school. They teach the same law there. If your goal is some thirst for knowledge, then you don't need the prestige of a T-14 to get it.

bizzybone1313 wrote:What does it matter what I am or not going to do with my career? The answer, of course, it doesn't matter. If you guys want to be partner at a big time law firm, that is great. More power to you and good luck.

You began this thread by asking about the portability of T-14 law degrees. Portability has everything to do with what you're going to do with your career. If you want to work in a law firm, then the T-14 are pretty reliably portable in order by ranking. If you want to work specifically in public interest, then you'd definitely want NYU over Columbia or Georgetown over Cornell. If you want to go into politics... well, the truth is that a T-14 isn't portable for that at all, and in fact can be a bit of a hindrance. You'll end up wasting 3 years away from the state/region you want to be building your political career, accruing a debilitating amount of debt, and ultimately getting a degree that isn't recognized as a positive and may even be seen as a negative by your hopeful employer (the voters). Outside of H/Y and their potential for launching you into high-level government jobs, T-14 degrees are simply not portable for politics.

It matters. If you do want advice, you'd better be prepared to hear it. If not, then why are you even here?

bizzybone1313 wrote:I don't really think I am a special snowflake. I am a pretty chill guy in real life. I just responded to those people in that particular thread in an obnoxious manner, because their posts were obnoxious in the first place.

People have been giving you valid advice since page 1 of this thread. Some are more abrasive in tone than others, but your real problem is that you don't want to hear the substance either way. You obviously only accept the answers you want to hear, and you appear entitled to act "obnoxious" toward people who don't. This makes you the exact opposite of someone who wants to be educated. You only seem to want an echo chamber, and you're hostile toward people who tell you quite rightly that you're on a bad path, which quite frankly makes you an enormous asshole of the sort I will always, always go out of my way to vote against.

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twenty
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Re: Least Portable T-14 Law Degree

Postby twenty » Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:43 am

bizzybone1313 wrote:I just don't agree with you guys that education does not matter for a political career.


I don't get it. How does it make sense that a lawyer is in a better position to become a politician than someone who works in politics. I'm serious -- in what world can that possibly make sense?

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bk1
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Re: Least Portable T-14 Law Degree

Postby bk1 » Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:48 am

vanwinkle wrote:If your goal is some thirst for knowledge, then you don't need the prestige of a T-14 to get it.


In fact, all you need is the internet.

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dingbat
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Re: Least Portable T-14 Law Degree

Postby dingbat » Tue Dec 18, 2012 6:40 am

vanwinkle wrote:You obviously only accept the answers you want to hear, and you appear entitled to act "obnoxious" toward people who don't. This makes you the exact opposite of someone who wants to be educated. You only seem to want an echo chamber, and you're hostile toward people who tell you quite rightly that you're on a bad path

Sounds like a politician already

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John_rizzy_rawls
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Re: Least Portable T-14 Law Degree

Postby John_rizzy_rawls » Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:29 am

Let me preface this response by articulating, clearly, a few things I was attempting to say in my initial post:

1. Dreaming big and having ambition is clearly not a bad thing, however it does matter why you strive for what you do. Behavior is all about patterns, and most patterns derive from motive. An abusive boyfriend will more than likely be an abusive husband until he understands why he wants to be in a relationship - good reason: companionship, bad reason: to have a scapegoat for his destructive self-loathing. Hence why I asked you the question I did, for which you still have not answered outside the ultra-generic "I want to make a difference."

2. So again: Why politician? Why not a profession in which your chances of and influence over which the change you seek is far greater and more direct? Vanwinkle named a few. Why do you want to be a politician? More importantly, why must you move to a bluer state to do so? The answers to these questions speak volumes about your character.

Notable politicians generally fall into three categories: hyper-idealists (the Obama model), perpetual clean-and-fix-it-up types (usually former Generals and CEOs), and power-seeking swindlers (most politicians). Each of these types convey which of these they are through actions, long before they ever become elected officials.

3. Hyper-Idealists: These people prove through action that what drives them is a desire for public service - an abdication of personal gain for the sake of the greater good. These people show themselves to be selfless and humble - Obama mostly fits this mold.

Fix-It-Up Types: These people almost always lateral from business or the military because they believe that government would be better if only it were structured like a corporation or the armed forces. They are strict and often very accomplished in other fields - think Meg Whitman, Romney, Bloomberg, etc.

Rent-Seekers: This is most politicians. These are insecure weasels who want a soap-box, a nice office full of plaques and fancy degrees, and a gangster posse of yes-(wo)men thoroughly blowing hot air up their asses for extended periods of time. These folks ordinarily are students turned legislative aides turned next-in-line-for-office. They tend to have long histories of being self-seeking, with delusions of grandeur.

With that in mind, let's move on.

bizzybone1313 wrote:First and foremost, I will accompish a lot more in my life than you and at the same time make a difference.


+

bizzybone1313 wrote:Why don't you take your 3.6/170 and attend American, Baylor or Pepperdine if those schools are so great? When you have children, why don't you encourage them to apply to community colleges for their education? When you are enrolling them at K-12 schools, why don't you pick the worst district in the entire city in which you will live? To ask these questions is to answer them. So you take that 3.6/170 and go to American, and I will take my stats and attend a T-14. Let's see in 20 years who ends up in a better position in terms of their career.


Clear traits of a #3 type. Delusions of grandeur masked by a thinly veiled layer of regard for greater society.

Put aside the crazy sauce for a second and look at facts.

You have stated to have an undergrad degree in construction science, because it provided you with money - yet you decry people who aim for a legal education to provide for themselves. Then you claim to have 60k in savings yet you also claim your parents still live in a trailer. Why is this? Help them. Give them the down payment to a home. Now you no longer work to study for the LSAT and shoot for a good school.

So as of now, you're an unemployed 26 year old man with no notable accomplishments except the aspiration of a high ranking law school and no pattern of true humility or selflessness in the face of tribulation. Where is your prestige? Who are you? What have you done thus far? Do you exhibit the traits of someone worthy of the trust of millions of people?

Me? I am nothing in the grand scheme of things but I also have no pretense of telling people on the Internet I will accomplish more than them.

...

For me, the law is a good equalizer. If used correctly, it can level the playing field. I've never made much money and don't plan on making bundles anytime soon, if ever. I want to enhance my education to maximize my ability to do the work I've been doing. And so, I want to go to law school.

As an AA URM with a 3.7/170 and an above average resume, I have no plans on going to American. Try a T-6. However, I may continue to stay here if obligation makes it necessary. In short, I will go to the school that best fits my needs - not out of some insecure and misplaced desire to be guffawed at.

bizzybone1313 wrote:I don't need your advice, critique or approval in terms of my future political career. Anytime I have responded in an abrasive, forceful manner it was in direct response to someone else's obnoxious, worthless posts.


The sad truth is that I know you're not a troll. In fact, I admire your ambition. My post was merely to allow you to see that ambition is not enough if you sincerely want to be an influential force for good in the future.

But then I saw your desperation to move to a blue state only to have a simpler path to election instead of staying and fighting in your community, for your family, for what you believe. I saw your inability to take good advice. I saw your ineptitude for recognizing constructive criticism. And worst of all, I saw a pattern of someone who only wanted to show that he is above everyone else, all while not actually doing anything to prove to himself that he is a genuine force for good - above petty perception and political partisanship.

bizzybone1313 wrote:As far as ambition is concerned, I am and what the fuck is your point. I fail to see the main point of the stimulus. People are ambitious in all areas of American life. Some people want to be a CEO; some people want to be a doctor; some people want to be a politician.


And so again, I ask: to what end is your ambition? For what purpose? What drives you? You say some people simply want to be a politician, but I say that the people who want to be a politician do so for very specific reasons.

bizzybone1313 wrote:I am going to continue to quote President Obama, because he is an excellent role model for a lot of people in this country. Am I going to go into politics to make a difference? Actually, that is exactly why I am going to attend. Politics is one of the best ways to do something meaningful and get paid at the same time.


To make a difference and get paid is not a sufficient reason. Many professions fulfill these two conditions, in much better ways.

Just to pre-empt a bit before I wrap up here:

I know you're super pissed and I'm going to get some long winded defensive response where you point out how mean I am or how much I suck. I don't care. What I care about is that you do two things:

A) Do some soul-searching before becoming like every other would-be politico with a JD and ambition up the wazoo but no heart, soul, or underpinning foundation to their ceaseless need to win the next election to match.

and B) Understand this: if you can't take criticism or the truth from random folks on the Internet, politics will eat you alive and turn you into a submissive lap dog who will do anything to stay out of the crossfire and ease into the next election cycle. The people who make a difference are the ones who don't move to Colorado, they change Texas. They work on their flaws and face their demons, they don't fight to prove their worth on the internet and cower from their weaknesses.

If you ever hold public office, I hope you understand what it means and act accordingly. We cannot afford too many more electeds like the one who occupy the chambers today.

Alrighty, I'm officially out of this thread. I truly do wish you all the best.

johnrawls
Last edited by John_rizzy_rawls on Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:21 am, edited 3 times in total.

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suralin
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Re: Least Portable T-14 Law Degree

Postby suralin » Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:51 am

John_rizzy_rawls wrote:Let me preface this response by articulating, clearly, a few things I was attempting to say in my initial post:

1. Dreaming big and having ambition is clearly not a bad thing, however it does matter why you strive for what you do. Behavior is all about patterns, and most patterns derive from motive. An abusive boyfriend will more than likely be an abusive husband until he understands why he wants to be in a relationship - good reason: companionship, bad reason: to have a scapegoat for his destructive self-loathing. Hence why I asked you the question I did, for which you still have not answered outside the ultra-generic "I want to make a difference."

2. So again: Why politician? Why not a profession in which your chances of and influence over which the change you seek is far greater and more direct? Vanwinkle named a few. Why do you want to be a politician? More importantly, why must you move to a bluer state to do so? The answers to these questions speak volumes about your character.

...

So as of now, you're an unemployed 26 year old man with no notable accomplishments except the aspiration of a high ranking law school and no pattern of true humility or selflessness in the face of tribulation. Where is your prestige? Who are you? What have you done thus far? Do you exhibit the traits of someone worthy of the trust of millions of people?

...

But then I saw your desperation to move to a blue state only to have a simpler path to election instead of staying and fighting in your community, for your family, for what you believe. I saw your inability to take good advice. I saw your ineptitude for recognizing constructive criticism. And worst of all, I saw a pattern of someone who only wanted to show that he is above everyone else, all while not actually doing anything to prove to himself that he is a genuine force for good - above petty perception and political partisanship.

...

To make a difference and get paid is not a sufficient reason. Many professions fulfill these two conditions, in much better ways.

Just to pre-empt a bit before I wrap up here:

I know you're super pissed and I'm going to get some long winded defensive response where you point out how mean I am or how much I suck. I don't care. What I care about is that you do two things:

A) Do some soul-searching before becoming like every other would-be politico with a JD and ambition up the wazoo but no heart, soul, or underpinning foundation to their ceaseless need to win the next election to match.

and B) Understand this: if you can't take criticism or the truth from random folks on the Internet, politics will eat you alive and turn you into a submissive lap dog who will do anything to stay out of the crossfire and ease into the next election cycle. The people who make a difference are the ones who don't move to Colorado, they change Texas. They work on their flaws and face their demons, they don't fight to prove their worth on the internet and cower from their weaknesses.

If you ever hold public office, I hope you understand what it means and act accordingly. We cannot afford too many more electeds like the one who occupy the chambers today.

Alrighty, I'm officially out of this thread. I truly do wish you all the best.

johnrawls


Great response. I only wish it was the case that OP would note well your advice; it's much more likely that his/her ego will kick in well before taking into account your recommendations.

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Icculus
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Re: Least Portable T-14 Law Degree

Postby Icculus » Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:00 pm

This could be one of the best, most well thought out posts I have read here and nothing but excellent advice/food for thought for OP. Well done, Mr. Rawls.

As for your suggestion that there are other professions OP could go into, I can tell you right now that any good/great teacher is going to make a bigger difference and impact more people than any politician. And it is damn rewarding.

Edit per user request.




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