Least Portable T-14 Law Degree Forum

[dextermorgan]

Duke has a lot of lay prestige. That makes sense. Its Duke!!!!!!! You know, its in the T-14. By the way, I am having second thoughts amigo. I am probably going to apply to Duke because of that lay prestige. I'm going to have to break my promise from the other day.

Taft went to Cincinnati. He was POTUS and CJOTUS.

[bizzybone1313]

Duke has a lot of lay prestige. That makes sense. Its Duke!!!!!!! You know, its in the T-14. By the way, I am having second thoughts amigo. I am probably going to apply to Duke because of that lay prestige. I'm going to have to break my promise from the other day.

Taft went to Cincinnati. He was POTUS and CJOTUS.

He went to Yale undergrad though. Plus, that was like 100 years ago. The past 4 POTUS have all gone to Yale or Harvard. The next POTUS will have gone to- you guessed it-- Haahhhhvvaaaarrrrddd.

[Davidbentley]

Certainly, Duke is Duke. They're on TV more than Leave it to Beaver re-runs.

[dingbat]

UNC does have a ridiculous amount lay prestige. It produced Michael Jordan. Did you catch that? Michael freaking Jordan!!!!!! The greatest to ever pick up a basketball.

So if you want to play in the NBA, you should get your law degree at UNC. But wait, isn't Wake Forest a better team? And they play division I football.
Decisions, decisions...

[bizzybone1313]

So, if someone attends Cornell, is there a good chance they are pretty much stuck in New York their whole lives? Or the northeast at least?

[BlaqBella]

So, if someone attends Cornell, is there a good chance they are pretty much stuck in New York their whole lives? Or the northeast at least?

Why don't you go ask Cornell and let their stats speak for itself.

[clone22]

So, if someone attends Cornell, is there a good chance they are pretty much stuck in New York their whole lives? Or the northeast at least?

Nah. Got offers in secondary markets in the South with a degree from there.

[bizzybone1313]

So, if someone attends Cornell, is there a good chance they are pretty much stuck in New York their whole lives? Or the northeast at least?

Why don't you go ask Cornell and let their stats speak for itself.

Because the administration people at any law school are not to be trusted. Most of them do not care about you or me or anyone else. They just want the gravy train to continue, so they can cash their $2,000 checks every week. People from TLS routinely turn down offers from Georgetown, because they perceive it to be a "diploma mill." I trust people on this website a lot more than the law schools themselves. Plus, just because the stats say a Cornell degree right now isn't portable in a bad economy, it doesn't mean it wasn't portable before the crash or won't be in the future.

So, if someone attends Cornell, is there a good chance they are pretty much stuck in New York their whole lives? Or the northeast at least?

Nah. Got offers in secondary markets in the South with a degree from there.

You are the perfect person to comment on the results of the poll. What do you think? Are the results misguided? How hard did you have to hustle for those offers from secondary markets?

[dextermorgan]

UNC does have a ridiculous amount lay prestige. It produced Michael Jordan. Did you catch that? Michael freaking Jordan!!!!!! The greatest to ever pick up a basketball.

So if you want to play in the NBA, you should get your law degree at UNC. But wait, isn't Wake Forest a better team? And they play division I football.
Decisions, decisions...

UNC law has a publication listing notable UNC alumni. They list Michael Jordan... and John Edwards.

[dingbat]

UNC does have a ridiculous amount lay prestige. It produced Michael Jordan. Did you catch that? Michael freaking Jordan!!!!!! The greatest to ever pick up a basketball.

So if you want to play in the NBA, you should get your law degree at UNC. But wait, isn't Wake Forest a better team? And they play division I football.
Decisions, decisions...

UNC law has a publication listing notable UNC alumni. They list Michael Jordan... and John Edwards.

Does Wake Forest have more than 2 notable alumni?

[jstr00az]

UNC's is highly underrated. UNC has a lot of lay prestige in the region. It produced John Edwards, right? Has CU Boulder ever produced a presidential candidate? For almost everyone at the T-14, we get to cough up money for the tuition. Plus, UNC is very, very cheap for in state people. It isn't too far behind UT Austin as far as bang for the buck. In law school, I won't be taking out $20K in COL loans every year. That is dumb.

Are you kidding? You're just as likely to be governor by going to North Carolina Central (Easley) or a DA or judge by going to NCCU or Campbell, as you are going to UNC. UNC is has been declining for two decades.

Avoid Wake Forest. That place is worthless.

[danquayle]

If you're that insistent on Colorado, you really ought to consider going to CU. It's not anywhere near the same caliber of the t-14, but honestly all the Colorado firms will be doing OCI at CU. Some of the top flight ones might be at the the non-HYS 14s, but it won't give you the same kind of collection. Plus theres that whole no contacts thing...

In my experience, the medium markets tend to be very skeptical of out of state applications, and rely heavily on the local schools the bulk of their hiring. Take a look and see where most of the local firms are doing their hiring. My guess is that unless they're mega firms recruiting for a variety of national offices, they go to CU and maybe Texas and the West Coast schools. Doubtless they'd consider a HYS resume drop, but they probably don't waste the money for OCI there. I doubt most are heading to places like MVP or Cornell. The small-to-mid size firms I doubt go anywhere but the locals.

Edit: http://www.swlaw.com/careers/law-students/campus-visits

Aside from a few randoms, this seems about right. There's no Texas, which surprised me, but perhaps shouldn't.

[bizzybone1313]

If you're that insistent on Colorado, you really ought to consider going to CU. It's not anywhere near the same caliber of the t-14, but honestly all the Colorado firms will be doing OCI at CU. Some of the top flight ones might be at the the non-HYS 14s, but it won't give you the same kind of collection. Plus theres that whole no contacts thing...

In my experience, the medium markets tend to be very skeptical of out of state applications, and rely heavily on the local schools the bulk of their hiring. Take a look and see where most of the local firms are doing their hiring. My guess is that unless they're mega firms recruiting for a variety of national offices, they go to CU and maybe Texas and the West Coast schools. Doubtless they'd consider a HYS resume drop, but they probably don't waste the money for OCI there. I doubt most are heading to places like MVP or Cornell. The small-to-mid size firms I doubt go anywhere but the locals.

Edit: http://www.swlaw.com/careers/law-students/campus-visits

Aside from a few randoms, this seems about right. There's no Texas, which surprised me, but perhaps shouldn't.

If I cannot end up in Colorado (although I will try my hardest), I will settle for another blue leaning state like Illinois or New Mexico. My hometown is like 30 minutes away from the border of New Mexico. I am sure the state has very few jobs though. If worse comes to worse, I will settle for Texas. Texas is projected to eventually become purple and then blue. The problem with Texas it is so big of a state, which makes a political career that much more difficult and costly for political campaigns.

Pursuing a law degree makes me very, very nervous because of the cost. But I am having a hard time thinking of a better educational background that would be perfect for a political career.

I really appreciate all of the advice.

[bizzybone1313]

UNC's is highly underrated. UNC has a lot of lay prestige in the region. It produced John Edwards, right? Has CU Boulder ever produced a presidential candidate? For almost everyone at the T-14, we get to cough up money for the tuition. Plus, UNC is very, very cheap for in state people. It isn't too far behind UT Austin as far as bang for the buck. In law school, I won't be taking out $20K in COL loans every year. That is dumb.

Are you kidding? You're just as likely to be governor by going to North Carolina Central (Easley) or a DA or judge by going to NCCU or Campbell, as you are going to UNC. UNC is has been declining for two decades.

Avoid Wake Forest. That place is worthless.

The logic does not go like this: If I obtain an elite law degree, it will automatically give me a boost for a political career (although this is probably true with degrees from YHS).

The logic goes more like this: If I obtain an elite T-14 law degree and fail in my political career, I will have other job opportunities easily available to me because of the elite law degree.

[Icculus]

Pursuing a law degree makes me very, very nervous because of the cost. But I am having a hard time thinking of a better educational background that would be perfect for a political career.

This may sound crazy, and I know people have already mentioned it, but why not just start in politics now? Work on campaigns, make connections, learn the ropes. Run for a local office. I really think you're putting way to much stock in this whole I need a law degree to become a politician idea. The best way to get into politics is to actually work in politics.

If I obtain an elite T-14 law degree and fail in my political career, I will have other job opportunities easily available to me because of the elite law degree.

You don't want to be a lawyer from what I read, you want to be a politician. Not to mention a law degree only helps you really get a job as a lawyer, and that usually happens 2L year or 3L year, not after a failed political career. Whatever logic you want to use, your plan is flawed.

[bizzybone1313]

Pursuing a law degree makes me very, very nervous because of the cost. But I am having a hard time thinking of a better educational background that would be perfect for a political career.

This may sound crazy, and I know people have already mentioned it, but why not just start in politics now? Work on campaigns, make connections, learn the ropes. Run for a local office. I really think you're putting way to much stock in this whole I need a law degree to become a politician idea. The best way to get into politics is to actually work in politics.

If I obtain an elite T-14 law degree and fail in my political career, I will have other job opportunities easily available to me because of the elite law degree.

You don't want to be a lawyer from what I read, you want to be a politician. Not to mention a law degree only helps you really get a job as a lawyer, and that usually happens 2L year or 3L year, not after a failed political career. Whatever logic you want to use, your plan is flawed.

I first and foremost want to be a politician. But if that does not work out, I would be very happy practicing civil rights, immigration or plaintiff side employment law, which I certainly understand are difficult areas to break into. If I were to fail as a politician, I would think that I could have a realistic shot at one of these jobs with an elite law degree. If I had to move to NYC to practice one of these areas of law, I would do it. I just want to be happy. And right now, nothing would make me more happy than being a politician. My parents only were able to get a junior high education, so I value education very highly. We are blessed in our country to have this opportunity. Others around the world aren't as blessed as us in terms of educational opportunities.

[danquayle]

Pursuing a law degree makes me very, very nervous because of the cost. But I am having a hard time thinking of a better educational background that would be perfect for a political career.

This may sound crazy, and I know people have already mentioned it, but why not just start in politics now? Work on campaigns, make connections, learn the ropes. Run for a local office. I really think you're putting way to much stock in this whole I need a law degree to become a politician idea. The best way to get into politics is to actually work in politics.

If I obtain an elite T-14 law degree and fail in my political career, I will have other job opportunities easily available to me because of the elite law degree.

You don't want to be a lawyer from what I read, you want to be a politician. Not to mention a law degree only helps you really get a job as a lawyer, and that usually happens 2L year or 3L year, not after a failed political career. Whatever logic you want to use, your plan is flawed.

I first and foremost want to be a politician. But if that does not work out, I would be very happy practicing civil rights, immigration or plaintiff side employment law, which I certainly understand are difficult areas to break into. If I were to fail as a politician, I would think that I could have a realistic shot at one of these jobs with an elite law degree. If I had to move to NYC to practice one of these areas of law, I would do it. I just want to be happy. And right now, nothing would make me more happy than being a politician. My parents only were able to get a junior high education, so I value education very highly. We are blessed in our country to have this opportunity. Others around the world aren't as blessed as us in terms of educational opportunities.

Most people are clamoring to get into the NYC legal market, not moving there by necessity. Especially for politics, you're really not going to do better than going the cheap route at a good in-state school. You get 3 solid years of networking with people who are most likely politically inclined, and at a local school you can rest assured most of them are also staying local.

Plus you keep your debt down. Debt will be a fair greater inhibitor to your crack at politics than lack of a prestigious degree (excepting HYS).

I suppose you could also look into Georgetown. Lots of people give it grief because its marginally worse job placement and massive JD classes. But I can't really think of a better place for a wannabe politician to spend 3 years. Everyone there is going to be embroiled in politics and looking to make likeminded friends, and in this case the massive student body will be a tangible asset.*

Assuming Gtown is discounted versus the other t-14. Your plan still is best accomplished on minimal debt. You don't want to spend a decade just trying to get debt free if you're serious about jumping into politics immediately.

[John_rizzy_rawls]

Why do you want to be a politician? Is it for the same reason you are so enamored with faux-prestige? I'm genuinely asking you. And do NOT say, "Because I want to make a difference." I also don't want a novel or Julian Castro's life story.

Judging from everything I've seen you say on these forums you are largely fueled by ambition and recognition. You want to be up on the podium for the same reason you want a top school - to feel great about yourself, to have your voice and story heard, and to be admired.

This is the wrong reason to enter politics. In fact, it is largely this propensity for rent-seeking and self-aggrandizement that has crippled any semblance of rational discourse at the legislative levels.

So you can quote Obama all you want, you can look up the pathway of Senators until kingdom come, but until you get the hell out there and do something for your fellow man that indicates some modicum of philanthropy and selflessness then I can assure you, you will just be another a-hole legislative aide or power-grabbing state level elected official. Or worse, a failed egotist with a crap top of law school debt.

Before you rant on how little I know, stop. I am a) involved in politics and b) not telling you to not dream big. But as someone in this arena, who sees what kind of people it attracts and sometimes rewards, I am imploring you to question your motives before gunning for something that you're just going to massively screw up.

[Lord Randolph McDuff]

Troll.

[John_rizzy_rawls]

Troll.

I wrote all that for a troll's amusement? Lame.

[Ramius]

Why do you want to be a politician? Is it for the same reason you are so enamored with faux-prestige? I'm genuinely asking you. And do NOT say, "Because I want to make a difference." I also don't want a novel or Julian Castro's life story.

Judging from everything I've seen you say on these forums you are largely fueled by ambition and recognition. You want to be up on the podium for the same reason you want a top school - to feel great about yourself, to have your voice and story heard, and to be admired.

This is the wrong reason to enter politics. In fact, it is largely this propensity for rent-seeking and self-aggrandizement that has crippled any semblance of rational discourse at the legislative levels.

So you can quote Obama all you want, you can look up the pathway of Senators until kingdom come, but until you get the hell out there and do something for your fellow man that indicates some modicum of philanthropy and selflessness then I can assure you, you will just be another a-hole legislative aide or power-grabbing state level elected official. Or worse, a failed egotist with a crap top of law school debt.

Before you rant on how little I know, stop. I am a) involved in politics and b) not telling you to not dream big. But as someone in this arena, who sees what kind of people it attracts and sometimes rewards, I am imploring you to question your motives before gunning for something that you're just going to massively screw up.

One of the better internet "slap some sense into you" comments I have seen in awhile.

Kudos

[danquayle]

Why do you want to be a politician? Is it for the same reason you are so enamored with faux-prestige? I'm genuinely asking you. And do NOT say, "Because I want to make a difference." I also don't want a novel or Julian Castro's life story.

Judging from everything I've seen you say on these forums you are largely fueled by ambition and recognition. You want to be up on the podium for the same reason you want a top school - to feel great about yourself, to have your voice and story heard, and to be admired.

This is the wrong reason to enter politics. In fact, it is largely this propensity for rent-seeking and self-aggrandizement that has crippled any semblance of rational discourse at the legislative levels.

So you can quote Obama all you want, you can look up the pathway of Senators until kingdom come, but until you get the hell out there and do something for your fellow man that indicates some modicum of philanthropy and selflessness then I can assure you, you will just be another a-hole legislative aide or power-grabbing state level elected official. Or worse, a failed egotist with a crap top of law school debt.

Before you rant on how little I know, stop. I am a) involved in politics and b) not telling you to not dream big. But as someone in this arena, who sees what kind of people it attracts and sometimes rewards, I am imploring you to question your motives before gunning for something that you're just going to massively screw up.

One of the better internet "slap some sense into you" comments I have seen in awhile.

Kudos

None of what you've written is untrue, but law schools are littered with people just like OP/Troll.

[Lord Randolph McDuff]

Why do you want to be a politician? Is it for the same reason you are so enamored with faux-prestige? I'm genuinely asking you. And do NOT say, "Because I want to make a difference." I also don't want a novel or Julian Castro's life story.

Judging from everything I've seen you say on these forums you are largely fueled by ambition and recognition. You want to be up on the podium for the same reason you want a top school - to feel great about yourself, to have your voice and story heard, and to be admired.

This is the wrong reason to enter politics. In fact, it is largely this propensity for rent-seeking and self-aggrandizement that has crippled any semblance of rational discourse at the legislative levels.

So you can quote Obama all you want, you can look up the pathway of Senators until kingdom come, but until you get the hell out there and do something for your fellow man that indicates some modicum of philanthropy and selflessness then I can assure you, you will just be another a-hole legislative aide or power-grabbing state level elected official. Or worse, a failed egotist with a crap top of law school debt.

Before you rant on how little I know, stop. I am a) involved in politics and b) not telling you to not dream big. But as someone in this arena, who sees what kind of people it attracts and sometimes rewards, I am imploring you to question your motives before gunning for something that you're just going to massively screw up.

One of the better internet "slap some sense into you" comments I have seen in awhile.

Kudos

None of what you've written is untrue, but law schools are littered with people just like OP/Troll.

I like what you said too. I also disagree that all law schools are littered with these people. They are there, but some schools seem to attract more than their fair share. ( looking at you, GW )

[Veyron]

I don't know whether your TX ties would suffice. Did you go to a TX undergrad? I would search around firm websites for alums from your UG and find out what they think. It's your start to networking combined with more valuable info than TLS can provide.

Your connections to Colorado are what will get you a job in Colorado (or prevent you from getting a job in Colorado).

Additionally, there are something like 40 SA gigs in the whole state. If being in Colorado is your end-all, be-all, law might not be the profession for you.

That's assuming OP wants BIGLAW/law firm route. He/she may not.

OP, my vote is for Georgetown. It's become quite the factory mill of JDs with over 2,500 students. Competition for job offers must be fierce with those kind of numbers.

But why the question? Are you also looking at applying to law schools local to Colorado?

I am applying to the T-14 + UT-Austin. I am originally from the northwestern part of Texas, which puts me about a 6-7 hour drive from Denver. I went to undergrad in Texas. I do not have any ties to Colorado at the moment, but I was thinking I could make it there based on my Texas undergrad school and Colorado generally being very close to where I am originally from. What if I did some kind of 1L summer gig in Colorado? That will help a lot, correct?

With this rap sheet you could go to Yale and you still wouldn't get Denver.

[bizzybone1313]

Why do you want to be a politician? Is it for the same reason you are so enamored with faux-prestige? I'm genuinely asking you. And do NOT say, "Because I want to make a difference." I also don't want a novel or Julian Castro's life story.

Judging from everything I've seen you say on these forums you are largely fueled by ambition and recognition. You want to be up on the podium for the same reason you want a top school - to feel great about yourself, to have your voice and story heard, and to be admired.

This is the wrong reason to enter politics. In fact, it is largely this propensity for rent-seeking and self-aggrandizement that has crippled any semblance of rational discourse at the legislative levels.

So you can quote Obama all you want, you can look up the pathway of Senators until kingdom come, but until you get the hell out there and do something for your fellow man that indicates some modicum of philanthropy and selflessness then I can assure you, you will just be another a-hole legislative aide or power-grabbing state level elected official. Or worse, a failed egotist with a crap top of law school debt.

Before you rant on how little I know, stop. I am a) involved in politics and b) not telling you to not dream big. But as someone in this arena, who sees what kind of people it attracts and sometimes rewards, I am imploring you to question your motives before gunning for something that you're just going to massively screw up.

First and foremost, I will accompish a lot more in my life than you and at the same time make a difference. I don't need your advice, critique or approval in terms of my future political career. Anytime I have responded in an abrasive, forceful manner it was in direct response to someone else's obnoxious, worthless posts.

Pursuing a political career is a very, very financially risky. Mayor Castro is a perfect example. If he runs for Governor or the U.S. Senate in the state of Texas and loses (which is very likely in the next 5-10 years), he would have spent 10-15 years of his life making close to nothing in salary all to make a difference. He will never make up that lost financial ground. In addition, he will never make up for all that time he spent away from his family due to working and campaigning.

With respect to this whole faux-prestige line, this has to be most worthless part of your post that barely deserves a response. Why don't you take your 3.6/170 and attend American, Baylor or Pepperdine if those schools are so great? When you have children, why don't you encourage them to apply to community colleges for their education? When you are enrolling them at K-12 schools, why don't you pick the worst district in the entire city in which you will live? To ask these questions is to answer them. So you take that 3.6/170 and go to American, and I will take my stats and attend a T-14. Let's see in 20 years who ends up in a better position in terms of their career.

As far as ambition is concerned, I am and what the fuck is your point. I fail to see the main point of the stimulus. People are ambitious in all areas of American life. Some people want to be a CEO; some people want to be a doctor; some people want to be a politician.

I am going to continue to quote President Obama, because he is an excellent role model for a lot of people in this country. Am I going to go into politics to make a difference? Actually, that is exactly why I am going to attend. Politics is one of the best ways to do something meaningful and get paid at the same time. Because of politicians, I was able to attend college on educational grants. Because of politicians, my mom will get health insurance when she hasn't had it for her entire life. Because of politicians, I was able to get a great undergraduate education.

Your time would be better spent telling people there are easier ways to make money than going to law school. I feel real, real sorry for all of these people on this site whose sole goal in life is to make as much money as possible. That's ok though-- they can live their life however they wish, and I will do the same. This amounts to that whole "poverty of ambition" that President Obama talks about.