Australian Law?

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HuskyHopeful
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Australian Law?

Postby HuskyHopeful » Sat Oct 13, 2012 2:42 pm

Call me crazy...


But i have been thinking about just going to an Australian law school and working there after graduation. Why not move to a country where the law bubble hasn't burst yet?

Thoughts? is it time to abandon the sinking US economy ship?

bdubs
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Re: Australian Law?

Postby bdubs » Sat Oct 13, 2012 2:53 pm


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HuskyHopeful
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Re: Australian Law?

Postby HuskyHopeful » Sat Oct 13, 2012 3:03 pm

Do you know if the data presented differentiates between LLB and JD median salaries?

Edit: Given the high cost of living in Australia if the JD median salary is around 50k most likely would not be a a viable option. However, if the LLB is 50k and the JD is 75-85 might be a viable option indeed, given the higher employment rates.

The article also cites that women make up 70% of the grads and are financially discriminated against, could this not skew medians? Food for thought.
Last edited by HuskyHopeful on Sat Oct 13, 2012 3:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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TheThriller
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Re: Australian Law?

Postby TheThriller » Sat Oct 13, 2012 3:09 pm

What if one transfers to an international UG institution so you can avoid a bad gpa from being calculated? Considering you killed it your last year at the international institution and got a good grade report?

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bitsy
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Re: Australian Law?

Postby bitsy » Sat Oct 13, 2012 3:13 pm

I've been thinking about this, too. UMelb has a program that looks pretty bitchin

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HuskyHopeful
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Re: Australian Law?

Postby HuskyHopeful » Sat Oct 13, 2012 3:31 pm

TheThriller wrote:What if one transfers to an international UG institution so you can avoid a bad gpa from being calculated? Considering you killed it your last year at the international institution and got a good grade report?



This is a whole different beast. I believe you have to report GPA for all undergrad institutions to LSAC; also may be hard to kill it in an entire new country with definite language and cultural barriers.

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banjo
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Re: Australian Law?

Postby banjo » Sat Oct 13, 2012 4:22 pm

At one point I seriously considered the NYU/Melbourne dual-JD, so I know a bit about this. Basically, yes, you are crazy to consider this.

1. The vast majority of Australian schools still award LLB's to undergraduates, meaning the country graduates tons of lawyers. Firms can afford to be very grade-selective and tend to hire above median. Australian firms also do not differentiate much between schools; Melbourne and Sydney probably only receive a tiny bump over Queensland, ANU, etc. when it comes to hiring. The reason you don't hear much about the glut of lawyers in the country is because a) Australia has a tiny population with booming non-legal sectors (so who cares), and b) the LLB graduates who don't get a training contract are not crushed under debt and haven't wasted any time beyond the normal duration of a Bachelor's degree.

2. A JD in Australia is extremely expensive for international students. Tuition alone at Melbourne will cost you 100k and cost of living is very high. First-year associates at large firms earn about 70k, which only makes sense if you're a debt-free 21-year-old LLB-graduate. The truth is that international students, especially the children of wealthy elites in Honk Kong, Singapore, India etc., are a great source of revenue for these schools, just as they are at the prestigious UK schools. Melbourne and Sydney will pretty much take anyone with a pulse, as long as the applicant can pay. This is why so many Canadians with shitty LSAT scores opt to shell out tens of thousands of dollars to go to Bond or Melbourne/Sydney. Just google site:lawstudents.ca australia and read the horror stories. You should also spend some time on http://www.studyconnect.com/forums/foru ... y.php?f=48.

3. The Melbourne Law School web site has TTTT advertising ALL OVER IT, including the whole international law pitch. There isn't even a median or average LSAT score published on the site. There are no real employment statistics anywhere. The home page links to the joke QS rankings.

4. Have you seriously looked into the visa/immigration issues? Possible laws that require firms to prove they cannot find a suitable Australian for the job? These may not be huge problems individually, but together they add to the risk and uncertainty and cost associated with going to law school in Australia.

If you are going to abandon the US, you should have done so right after high school. If you're going to leave the country now, I would consider Canada before Australia.

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HuskyHopeful
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Re: Australian Law?

Postby HuskyHopeful » Sat Oct 13, 2012 4:28 pm

banjo wrote:At one point I seriously considered the NYU/Melbourne dual-JD, so I know a bit about this. Basically, yes, you are crazy to consider this.

1. The vast majority of Australian schools still award LLB's to undergraduates, meaning the country graduates tons of lawyers. Firms can afford to be very grade-selective and tend to hire above median. Australian firms also do not differentiate much between schools; Melbourne and Sydney probably only receive a tiny bump over Queensland, ANU, etc. when it comes to hiring. The reason you don't hear much about the glut of lawyers in the country is because a) Australia has a tiny population with booming non-legal sectors (so who cares), and b) the LLB graduates who don't get a training contract are not crushed under debt and haven't wasted any time beyond the normal duration of a Bachelor's degree.

2. A JD in Australia is extremely expensive for international students. Tuition alone at Melbourne will cost you 100k and cost of living is very high. First-year associates at large firms earn about 70k, which only makes sense if you're a debt-free 21-year-old LLB-graduate. The truth is that international students, especially the children of wealthy elites in Honk Kong, Singapore, India etc., are a great source of revenue for these schools, just as they are at the prestigious UK schools. Melbourne and Sydney will pretty much take anyone with a pulse, as long as the applicant can pay. This is why so many Canadians with shitty LSAT scores opt to shell out tens of thousands of dollars to go to Bond or Melbourne/Sydney. Just google site:lawstudents.ca australia and read the horror stories. You should also spend some time on http://www.studyconnect.com/forums/foru ... y.php?f=48.

3. The Melbourne Law School web site has TTTT advertising ALL OVER IT, including the whole international law pitch. There isn't even a median or average LSAT score published on the site. There are no real employment statistics anywhere. The home page links to the joke QS rankings.

4. Have you seriously looked into the visa/immigration issues? Possible laws that require firms to prove they cannot find a suitable Australian for the job? These may not be huge problems individually, but together they add to the risk and uncertainty and cost associated with going to law school in Australia.

If you are going to abandon the US, you should have done so right after high school. If you're going to leave the country now, I would consider Canada before Australia.


Excellent info here, appreciate the reply. Guess Aussie law is out!

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BlaqBella
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Re: Australian Law?

Postby BlaqBella » Tue Oct 16, 2012 11:07 am

I don't think its out OP. However, I always think its best to get a JD here at home, get some years of work experience and then leave the base.

You'll be more valuable to Australia (and other countries seeking JD and barred American attorneys) with some years of work experience under your belt.

P.S. I have never been to Australia but heard the quality of life is much better there (and its close to Tasmania and New Zealand, both considered paradise on earth!)

I'm not sure if Harvard Law is on your radar, but they have a great study abroad program with Sydney Law School. Perhaps that's a good way to get to know the market...by studying abroad whilst a 3L.

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BlaqBella
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Re: Australian Law?

Postby BlaqBella » Tue Oct 16, 2012 11:15 am

OP, in the event Harvard isn't a possibility the following law schools have exchange programs in Australia:

Emory - http://www.law.emory.edu/academics/acad ... broad.html

UVA - http://www.law.virginia.edu/html/academics/bucerius.htm

USC - http://weblaw.usc.edu/how/gip/studyabroad.cfm

...as I'm also interested in practicing overseas in that region in the near but distant future, I'm specifically looking at law schools that will allow for me to study abroad in the region.

texjew21
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Re: Australian Law?

Postby texjew21 » Tue Oct 16, 2012 4:23 pm

I used to live in Melbourne. Phenomenal city with a very high standard of living. However, the cost of living is also very high. Everything in Australia is expensive, a big reason being the dollar being so strong there at the moment.

If you are able to jump over to another country without being emotionally distressed from leaving all you have here, than I don't think it's a bad idea. Melbourne has ranked #1 two years in a row as the "Most Livable City in the World" by the Economist.

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vpintz
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Re: Australian Law?

Postby vpintz » Wed Oct 17, 2012 11:15 am

texjew21 wrote:I used to live in Melbourne. Phenomenal city with a very high standard of living. However, the cost of living is also very high. Everything in Australia is expensive, a big reason being the dollar being so strong there at the moment.

If you are able to jump over to another country without being emotionally distressed from leaving all you have here, than I don't think it's a bad idea. Melbourne has ranked #1 two years in a row as the "Most Livable City in the World" by the Economist.

Just to jump on your last point, it helps to have friends/family/etc. in the city/area/whatever you're looking to move to, because they can help you find jobs and stuff.

Pazman
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Re: Australian Law?

Postby Pazman » Wed Oct 17, 2012 6:36 pm

There is also an NYU/Unimelb dual JD programme which looks pretty sweet, if you're interested in Melbs
http://www.law.nyu.edu/admissions/jdadm ... /index.htm
I've been living in Melbourne for almost 2 years and it's a pretty great city




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