UNT Law School set to open in 2014

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texjew21
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UNT Law School set to open in 2014

Postby texjew21 » Thu Oct 11, 2012 4:40 pm

http://lawschool.untsystem.edu/

Looks very intriguing. Dallas lacks a public law school, and I could never get into SMU and the cost of tuition there is one of the highest in the country. Law students at UNT will still have access to internships in the Dallas area, as there is only one law school here and it isn't public. Tuition will be significantly less without a doubt.

My current situation: I graduated UT Austin in 2010 and never believed in going to law school/grad school right after undergrad. I felt that gaining work/life experience was more important. I am currently a Realtor and have no intention of doing this long term. I am interested in Real Estate law, as well as Immigration Law and Intellectual Property.

However, with the current dismal job market for law graduates I am very skeptical still. I am really considering getting a Masters in Public Affairs instead, as I am also interested in working in the public sector.

Any opinions or advice from you guys? I appreciate any sort of feedback.

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rad lulz
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Re: UNT Law School set to open in 2014

Postby rad lulz » Thu Oct 11, 2012 4:43 pm

Damn we don't need any more crappy law schools.

dixiecupdrinking
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Re: UNT Law School set to open in 2014

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Thu Oct 11, 2012 4:46 pm

I would never recommend going to a new, unaccredited law school with no alumni base in this economy unless you are paying nothing or almost nothing for it.

University administrators will make a big deal about a school being public, claiming that it means they are somehow better positioned to serve the interests of their students, their communities, the state, etc. Don't buy it for one second. There's no meaningful distinction between public and private law schools. This one, like its peers, will exist primarily as a vehicle for funneling a vast new pool of easy student loan money into the university's coffers.

JDeezy
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Re: UNT Law School set to open in 2014

Postby JDeezy » Thu Oct 11, 2012 4:46 pm

.
Last edited by JDeezy on Thu Oct 18, 2012 6:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: UNT Law School set to open in 2014

Postby Tiago Splitter » Thu Oct 11, 2012 4:46 pm

http://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/print ... l?page=all

"Preparations for the law school are going well, said Rosemary Haggett, vice chancellor for academic affairs and student success for the University of North Texas System. Haggett is supervising the launch of the College of Law.
Haggett expects the school’s initial class to have 95 to 100 students.
“The approach this law school will have will be different in that it will really focus on producing practice-ready lawyers,” Haggett said. “We have been very cognizant of the critique of legal education that has been going on for some time now. We want to respond to that critique.”

I would love for Rosemary Haggett, or another advocate for this school, to come around here and explain this "cognizance" of the legal education system she is talking about. The Dean of Indiana Tech was kind of enough to come around and explain things; we'd all really appreciate if UNT's Dean would do the same.

texjew21
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Re: UNT Law School set to open in 2014

Postby texjew21 » Thu Oct 11, 2012 4:50 pm

dixiecupdrinking wrote:I would never recommend going to a new, unaccredited law school with no alumni base in this economy unless you are paying nothing or almost nothing for it.

University administrators will make a big deal about a school being public, claiming that it means they are somehow better positioned to serve the interests of their students, their communities, the state, etc. Don't buy it for one second. There's no meaningful distinction between public and private law schools. This one, like its peers, will exist primarily as a vehicle for funneling a vast new pool of easy student loan money into the university's coffers.


What if they do become accredited? Does that change the playing field? How long does it usually take for a Law School to become accredited after just opening its doors for the first time?

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rad lulz
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Re: UNT Law School set to open in 2014

Postby rad lulz » Thu Oct 11, 2012 4:51 pm

Tiago Splitter wrote:http://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/print-edition/2012/03/09/university-of-north-texas-law-school.html?page=all

"Preparations for the law school are going well, said Rosemary Haggett, vice chancellor for academic affairs and student success for the University of North Texas System. Haggett is supervising the launch of the College of Law.
Haggett expects the school’s initial class to have 95 to 100 students.
“The approach this law school will have will be different in that it will really focus on producing practice-ready lawyers,” Haggett said. “We have been very cognizant of the critique of legal education that has been going on for some time now. We want to respond to that critique.”

I would love for Rosemary Haggett, or another advocate for this school, to come around here and explain this "cognizance" of the legal education system she is talking about. The Dean of Indiana Tech was kind of enough to come around and explain things; we'd all really appreciate if UNT's Dean would do the same.

I always lol @ "practice ready."

Practice ready for jobs that don't exist.

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vanwinkle
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Re: UNT Law School set to open in 2014

Postby vanwinkle » Thu Oct 11, 2012 4:54 pm

Even with Dallas not having its own "public law school", you'd face a lot of competition for jobs as a UNT Law grad. Employers will prefer grads from top-tier schools until UNT really establishes itself locally, and even putting SMU aside, every year there are a number of Texans enrolling at T14s, UT, UH, Baylor, etc., all hoping to land Dallas-area jobs when they graduate.

I'm not sure tuition will be that much of a bargain, either. It'll cost a lot of money to open and operate a campus in the middle of downtown Dallas, and the only way to give the school some immediate credibility will be to hire established and distinguished faculty, which will also be expensive. Presumably they'll want to attract the best possible students, which will mean awarding scholarships as large and often as possible, and one way schools can afford to issue large scholarships is to charge a high tuition and basically make some students subsidize others.

This law school is an enormous mistake because it'll just start churning out more lawyers into an already-crowded market, and folks graduating from established schools will have an alumni network and the established value of their alma mater to lean on. For at least the first several years, and until UNT Law can establish itself in the local hiring market, an education there won't be a worthwhile investment at all.

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vanwinkle
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Re: UNT Law School set to open in 2014

Postby vanwinkle » Thu Oct 11, 2012 4:58 pm

texjew21 wrote:What if they do become accredited? Does that change the playing field? How long does it usually take for a Law School to become accredited after just opening its doors for the first time?

They'll likely get "provisionally accredited" pretty quickly, but the accrediting process can take a while. And it doesn't always happen. Southern New England School of Law failed to get ABA-accredited and folded (its assets were bought by UMass to become "UMass Law", the first public law school in Massachusetts, because God knows the dozen private law schools in that state aren't enough to meet demand).

dixiecupdrinking
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Re: UNT Law School set to open in 2014

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Thu Oct 11, 2012 5:00 pm

texjew21 wrote:
dixiecupdrinking wrote:I would never recommend going to a new, unaccredited law school with no alumni base in this economy unless you are paying nothing or almost nothing for it.

University administrators will make a big deal about a school being public, claiming that it means they are somehow better positioned to serve the interests of their students, their communities, the state, etc. Don't buy it for one second. There's no meaningful distinction between public and private law schools. This one, like its peers, will exist primarily as a vehicle for funneling a vast new pool of easy student loan money into the university's coffers.


What if they do become accredited? Does that change the playing field? How long does it usually take for a Law School to become accredited after just opening its doors for the first time?

Doesn't really change the calculus at all. The emphasis really is on the fact that it's brand new. ABA accreditation is pretty much a rubber stamp and it's essentially a foregone conclusion that any school affiliated with a marginally credible university will end up getting accredited.

The reason the newness is important is because low-ranked, local schools (which this school will be) are usually a bad idea, except for those that have a solid niche they occupy. These are typically schools in rural areas and/or low-population states, who face little competition for jobs from more prestigious schools. This means that UNT is extremely unlikely to be one of those low-ranked schools that is a good bet; it will be at the bottom of the food chain, because Dallas is a desirable place to work and grads from UT, SMU, T14 schools, and probably a number of other schools in the region will be first in line. The fact that the school is brand new means it has definitely not achieved any niche that would make it worth attending. (There are arguable cases of worthwhile low-ranked schools even in crowded markets—e.g., CUNY, which is very cheap and completely public interest-focused—but they're rare.)

That said, at some level of generality a JD is a JD, which is why I think it might not be a completely god-awful idea to attend this school if 1) it's free, 2) you want to stay in Dallas, 3) you don't expect to actually get a job practicing law, and 4) hopefully you can go part-time while maintaining your current job. That's a lot of caveats. I'd really only recommend it to someone for whom having the JD credential itself is all that's important—a person in a civil service title that needs it for a promotion, maybe, or someone who can join their dad's firm—or someone who just wants to study law for some sick reason but won't care if they can't get a job.

texjew21
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Re: UNT Law School set to open in 2014

Postby texjew21 » Thu Oct 11, 2012 5:05 pm

dixiecupdrinking wrote:
texjew21 wrote:
dixiecupdrinking wrote:I would never recommend going to a new, unaccredited law school with no alumni base in this economy unless you are paying nothing or almost nothing for it.

University administrators will make a big deal about a school being public, claiming that it means they are somehow better positioned to serve the interests of their students, their communities, the state, etc. Don't buy it for one second. There's no meaningful distinction between public and private law schools. This one, like its peers, will exist primarily as a vehicle for funneling a vast new pool of easy student loan money into the university's coffers.


What if they do become accredited? Does that change the playing field? How long does it usually take for a Law School to become accredited after just opening its doors for the first time?

Doesn't really change the calculus at all. The emphasis really is on the fact that it's brand new. ABA accreditation is pretty much a rubber stamp and it's essentially a foregone conclusion that any school affiliated with a marginally credible university will end up getting accredited.

The reason the newness is important is because low-ranked, local schools (which this school will be) are usually a bad idea, except for those that have a solid niche they occupy. These are typically schools in rural areas and/or low-population states, who face little competition for jobs from more prestigious schools. This means that UNT is extremely unlikely to be one of those low-ranked schools that is a good bet; it will be at the bottom of the food chain, because Dallas is a desirable place to work and grads from UT, SMU, T14 schools, and probably a number of other schools in the region will be first in line. The fact that the school is brand new means it has definitely not achieved any niche that would make it worth attending. (There are arguable cases of worthwhile low-ranked schools even in crowded markets—e.g., CUNY, which is very cheap and completely public interest-focused—but they're rare.)

That said, at some level of generality a JD is a JD, which is why I think it might not be a completely god-awful idea to attend this school if 1) it's free, 2) you want to stay in Dallas, 3) you don't expect to actually get a job practicing law, and 4) hopefully you can go part-time while maintaining your current job. That's a lot of caveats. I'd really only recommend it to someone for whom having the JD credential itself is all that's important—a person in a civil service title that needs it for a promotion, maybe, or someone who can join their dad's firm—or someone who just wants to study law for some sick reason but won't care if they can't get a job.


I see. If I go to law school it definitely will not be because I am looking for a promotion in a non-legal field. Also, I don't need to stay in Dallas, if anything I'd like to get the hell out of here.

CUNY is also of interest to me, so it's funny you brought that up.

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Bildungsroman
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Re: UNT Law School set to open in 2014

Postby Bildungsroman » Thu Oct 11, 2012 5:38 pm

If you want to get out of Dallas then going to this new hole is an even worse idea, and it was already a cataclysmically bad idea.

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vanwinkle
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Re: UNT Law School set to open in 2014

Postby vanwinkle » Thu Oct 11, 2012 5:44 pm

Bildungsroman wrote:If you want to get out of Dallas then going to this new hole is an even worse idea, and it was already a cataclysmically bad idea.

LOL, this.

texjew21
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Re: UNT Law School set to open in 2014

Postby texjew21 » Thu Oct 11, 2012 5:45 pm

Bildungsroman wrote:If you want to get out of Dallas then going to this new hole is an even worse idea, and it was already a cataclysmically bad idea.


:lol: Probably.

Why does the job market have to suck so bad for law grads? I'm more than likely going to Public Affairs school.

timbs4339
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Re: UNT Law School set to open in 2014

Postby timbs4339 » Thu Oct 11, 2012 7:31 pm

texjew21 wrote:
Bildungsroman wrote:If you want to get out of Dallas then going to this new hole is an even worse idea, and it was already a cataclysmically bad idea.


:lol: Probably.

Why does the job market have to suck so bad for law grads? I'm more than likely going to Public Affairs school.


It sucks because of schools like this, Indiana Tech, and the dozens of new schools that have opened in the past 20 years because administrators always seem to forget to consider a little question like "are there jobs for our graduates." Instead they focus on demand for law school. If you are willing to go far down into the applicant pool you will always be able to fill seats because the market for young workers in general is so poor.

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kalvano
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Re: UNT Law School set to open in 2014

Postby kalvano » Thu Oct 11, 2012 9:15 pm

UNT law will be better than Texas Wesleyan, at least.

sharontatum
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Re: UNT Law School set to open in 2014

Postby sharontatum » Sun Mar 10, 2013 11:22 pm

I just read about this new law school. I am currently a UNT student, however, I am enrolled in a course of study that will provide more realistic and abundant opportunities for a job after graduation.

I don't know if the new law school is good or bad for UNT. I believe it will be financially profitable for UNT, overall. Dallas is a great city to live in.

If you aren't in the top ten percent of your class at most accredited law schools, you can't get a job. That means that 90% of people at most law schools won't get a job after graduation; those are dismal statistics. I believe those stats because I know many people with law degrees who don't work in the legal profession.

Its hard for me to imagine anyone applying to law school anymore, unless they just want a legal education for its own sake. Of course, there is nothing wrong with wanting to study law just for the sake of studying law.

cooldude87
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Re: UNT Law School set to open in 2014

Postby cooldude87 » Sun Mar 10, 2013 11:31 pm

UT/SMU/UH

that's it

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jenesaislaw
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Re: UNT Law School set to open in 2014

Postby jenesaislaw » Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:01 am

I am consulting this week for a few days with this school. LST is putting a lot of pressure on this school to structure its faculty differently and thus far the school has been receptive to our ideas, which all aim towards keeping the prices VERY low. I've seen early curriculum plans, too, and I am optimistic.

What we do not need are more of the same schools. What we do need is competition from genuinely low-cost, high-quality alternatives that understand a narrowly defined mission. I am certain I will be either its loudest critic or its loudest fan when all is said and done.

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rickgrimes69
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Re: UNT Law School set to open in 2014

Postby rickgrimes69 » Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:02 am

sharontatum wrote:I just read about this new law school. I am currently a UNT student, however, I am enrolled in a course of study that will provide more realistic and abundant opportunities for a job after graduation.

I don't know if the new law school is good or bad for UNT. I believe it will be financially profitable for UNT, overall. Dallas is a great city to live in.

If you aren't in the top ten percent of your class at most accredited law schools, you can't get a job. That means that 90% of people at most law schools won't get a job after graduation; those are dismal statistics. I believe those stats because I know many people with law degrees who don't work in the legal profession.

Its hard for me to imagine anyone applying to law school anymore, unless they just want a legal education for its own sake. Of course, there is nothing wrong with wanting to study law just for the sake of studying law.


Solid necro brah

Also top 10% or bust is pretty severe even by TLS standards

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Dr. Dre
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Re: UNT Law School set to open in 2014

Postby Dr. Dre » Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:09 am

rad lulz wrote:Damn we don't need any more crappy law schools.


this.

we already have TTTT uc irvine :(

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rickgrimes69
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Re: UNT Law School set to open in 2014

Postby rickgrimes69 » Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:11 am

Dr. Dre wrote:
rad lulz wrote:Damn we don't need any more crappy law schools.


this.

we already have TTTT uc irvine :(


We get it you hate UCI

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patrickd139
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Re: UNT Law School set to open in 2014

Postby patrickd139 » Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:21 am

In case anyone was actually, seriously considering this:
UNTTTT Law School Website wrote:Given that the College of Law will be seeking accreditation, federal student loans that are often used to finance legal education will not be available for at least the first year of the College of Law's operation.

UNTTTT Law School Website wrote:Given that the College of Law will be seeking accreditation, federal student loans that are often used to finance legal education will not be available for at least the first year of the College of Law's operation.

UNTTTT Law School Website wrote:Given that the College of Law will be seeking accreditation, federal student loans that are often used to finance legal education will not be available for at least the first year of the College of Law's operation.

UNTTTT Law School Website wrote:Given that the College of Law will be seeking accreditation, federal student loans that are often used to finance legal education will not be available for at least the first year of the College of Law's operation.

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Presidentjlh
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Re: UNT Law School set to open in 2014

Postby Presidentjlh » Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:35 am

No federal loans for the first year?

lol

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guano
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Re: UNT Law School set to open in 2014

Postby guano » Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:44 am

read this (LinkRemoved)




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