Update Law School Rankings Page

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )
Lord Randolph McDuff
Posts: 1587
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 4:37 pm

Update Law School Rankings Page

Postby Lord Randolph McDuff » Wed Oct 10, 2012 6:46 pm

Can we please change the median salary data on the law school rankings page of TLS? My school reports a median of 107k. Stop. Even if we can't agree on some sort of formula to apply to all schools, we could at the very least take that data off. My reasoning is simple. I remember when I first found TLS, I did not look at the forum until my fourth or fifth visit. I was initially interested only in the rankings and the profiles. Surely other present day Mcduffs are making the same mistake. The medians salary data for all non T-17'rso schools should read 55k or less. Why are we participating in this madness?

Thoughts.

User avatar
Aberzombie1892
Posts: 1907
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2009 10:56 am

Re: Update Law School Rankings Page

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Wed Oct 10, 2012 7:15 pm

I honestly believe salary data should not be reported at all, since it is significantly skewed to the high end. Outside the T18, people should choose schools based off of region for employment post law school and not salary information, regardless of the accuracy of the salary data.

Lord Randolph McDuff
Posts: 1587
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 4:37 pm

Re: Update Law School Rankings Page

Postby Lord Randolph McDuff » Wed Oct 10, 2012 7:30 pm

Aberzombie1892 wrote:I honestly believe salary data should not be reported at all, since it is significantly skewed to the high end. Outside the T18, people should choose schools based off of region for employment post law school and not salary information, regardless of the accuracy of the salary data.


I could get behind this. A simple solution.

So then let's edit out all salary info and make prospective applicants go to the forum for guidance there. It's a complicated topic and the forum is best suited to address it.

User avatar
sawwaverunner
Posts: 113
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2008 10:28 am

Re: Update Law School Rankings Page

Postby sawwaverunner » Wed Oct 10, 2012 7:49 pm

It's ridiculous. The T19 schools are the only sure bet nowadays anyhow.

Lord Randolph McDuff
Posts: 1587
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 4:37 pm

Re: Update Law School Rankings Page

Postby Lord Randolph McDuff » Wed Oct 10, 2012 7:53 pm

sawwaverunner wrote:It's ridiculous. The T19 schools are the only sure bet nowadays anyhow.


T-21 or bust.

mr.hands
Posts: 892
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2012 4:23 pm

Re: Update Law School Rankings Page

Postby mr.hands » Wed Oct 10, 2012 7:56 pm

Lord Randolph McDuff wrote:
sawwaverunner wrote:It's ridiculous. The T19 schools are the only sure bet nowadays anyhow.


T-21 or bust.


Gotta go with the prime numbers

Lord Randolph McDuff
Posts: 1587
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 4:37 pm

Re: Update Law School Rankings Page

Postby Lord Randolph McDuff » Wed Oct 10, 2012 7:57 pm

Unrelated, but University of Wyoming's tuition is only 4k a year for residents. http://www.uwyo.edu/admissions/scholars ... dance.html

But seriously we should take off salary data from the profiles.

User avatar
JCougar
Posts: 3175
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 8:47 pm

Re: Update Law School Rankings Page

Postby JCougar » Wed Oct 10, 2012 7:59 pm

Lord Randolph McDuff wrote:Can we please change the median salary data on the law school rankings page of TLS? My school reports a median of 107k. Stop. Even if we can't agree on some sort of formula to apply to all schools, we could at the very least take that data off. My reasoning is simple. I remember when I first found TLS, I did not look at the forum until my fourth or fifth visit. I was initially interested only in the rankings and the profiles. Surely other present day Mcduffs are making the same mistake. The medians salary data for all non T-17'rso schools should read 55k or less. Why are we participating in this madness?

Thoughts.


I actually doubt the majority of the "T17" is much higher than $60K or so, if you include the entire class. There's no way the median Georgetown or UCLA graduate is making six figures, and very likely not Berkeley or Michigan either.

There's a few T14 schools that seem to be doing better in this economy, such as Penn and Northwestern, but it's pretty much a shitshow everywhere you look.

Now if you say "median private practice salary," then maybe, but that's also deceiving, since most people who decide against private practice end up doing so after they've already struck out at OCI. There's a few that get good grades and do PI or government work anyway, but this number seems to be very small.

Lord Randolph McDuff
Posts: 1587
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 4:37 pm

Re: Update Law School Rankings Page

Postby Lord Randolph McDuff » Wed Oct 10, 2012 7:59 pm

Lord Randolph McDuff wrote:Unrelated, but University of Wyoming's tuition is only 4k a year for residents. http://www.uwyo.edu/admissions/scholars ... dance.html

But seriously we should take off salary data from the profiles.



Actually I fucked up here is the correct link-- http://www.uwyo.edu/law/prospective%2Ds ... ancial-aid

Fuck Wyoming.

Lord Randolph McDuff
Posts: 1587
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 4:37 pm

Re: Update Law School Rankings Page

Postby Lord Randolph McDuff » Wed Oct 10, 2012 8:01 pm

JCougar wrote:
Lord Randolph McDuff wrote:Can we please change the median salary data on the law school rankings page of TLS? My school reports a median of 107k. Stop. Even if we can't agree on some sort of formula to apply to all schools, we could at the very least take that data off. My reasoning is simple. I remember when I first found TLS, I did not look at the forum until my fourth or fifth visit. I was initially interested only in the rankings and the profiles. Surely other present day Mcduffs are making the same mistake. The medians salary data for all non T-17'rso schools should read 55k or less. Why are we participating in this madness?

Thoughts.


I actually doubt the majority of the "T17" is much higher than $60K or so, if you include the entire class. There's no way the median Georgetown or UCLA graduate is making six figures, and very likely not Berkeley or Michigan either.

There's a few T14 schools that seem to be doing better in this economy, such as Penn and Northwestern, but it's pretty much a shitshow everywhere you look.

Now if you say "median private practice salary," then maybe, but that's also deceiving, since most people who decide against private practice end up doing so after they've already struck out at OCI. There's a few that get good grades and do PI or government work anyway, but this number seems to be very small.


I actually agree with you I know four or five students who just graduated from UT-Austin and none of them cleared 60k hah.. Let's just take off salary data altogether. Stick it to the man.

User avatar
goldenflash19
Posts: 477
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2011 11:15 pm

Re: Update Law School Rankings Page

Postby goldenflash19 » Wed Oct 10, 2012 8:53 pm

+1 for not including salary data at all. I would replace it with a link to the school's LST page, though.

User avatar
JCougar
Posts: 3175
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 8:47 pm

Re: Update Law School Rankings Page

Postby JCougar » Wed Oct 10, 2012 9:35 pm

goldenflash19 wrote:+1 for not including salary data at all. I would replace it with a link to the school's LST page, though.


That's probably a great idea. Everyone that is part of this website knows that these figures are bogus.

However, even a bunch of schools have figured out how to game the LST employment scores already. NYU, Columbia, UVA and George Washington are stuffing dozens of unemployed graduates into "long term, full time, JD required" jobs that are really just unpaid internships funded by a minimal school stipend. They found out that the definition of "long term" is one year, so these stipends end in exactly one year.

The lesson is that law school administrators, even those from the heralded T14, are professional liars. So even take the new data with a grain of salt.

Lord Randolph McDuff
Posts: 1587
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 4:37 pm

Re: Update Law School Rankings Page

Postby Lord Randolph McDuff » Thu Oct 11, 2012 11:06 am

JCougar wrote:
goldenflash19 wrote:+1 for not including salary data at all. I would replace it with a link to the school's LST page, though.


That's probably a great idea. Everyone that is part of this website knows that these figures are bogus.

However, even a bunch of schools have figured out how to game the LST employment scores already. NYU, Columbia, UVA and George Washington are stuffing dozens of unemployed graduates into "long term, full time, JD required" jobs that are really just unpaid internships funded by a minimal school stipend. They found out that the definition of "long term" is one year, so these stipends end in exactly one year.

The lesson is that law school administrators, even those from the heralded T14, are professional liars. So even take the new data with a grain of salt.


Really? I had thought school employed was a separate score? Is it also lumped in with LT, FT? If so that is total horseshit.

I think it is possible for LST to come up with a formula that is very difficult to game by school admins. In fact, what is wrong with the current system minus employed by school? On a separate note, how much money would it take to survey every person who passes the bar about their law school experience? I would love to see if 40% of people at X school were satisfied with how things turned out and compare that with Y, Z, etc.. I'd love to write five new questions on the ABA questionnaire...

User avatar
JCougar
Posts: 3175
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 8:47 pm

Re: Update Law School Rankings Page

Postby JCougar » Thu Oct 11, 2012 12:08 pm

Lord Randolph McDuff wrote:Really? I had thought school employed was a separate score? Is it also lumped in with LT, FT? If so that is total horseshit.

I think it is possible for LST to come up with a formula that is very difficult to game by school admins. In fact, what is wrong with the current system minus employed by school? On a separate note, how much money would it take to survey every person who passes the bar about their law school experience? I would love to see if 40% of people at X school were satisfied with how things turned out and compare that with Y, Z, etc.. I'd love to write five new questions on the ABA questionnaire...


Not all school employed is a separate score. The Universities I listed found a way to create a temporary school-employed position that met the definition of "full-time, JD employed, permanent" job. You have to go to the breakdown of "school funded" jobs to see which percentage adds to their "employment score."

It's impossible to keep up with these liars. They will figure out every way possible to game the system.

For example, the University of Virginia claims a 94% employment score" yet a 17% "school funded" rate. That's obviously impossible if the school funded jobs aren't counting toward employment score.

If you go to the "Job Characteristics" page, it shows you that all of those "school funded" jobs were classified as full-time and long-term. Lying schools like UVA found out that the ABA's definition of "long-term" meant 1 year or longer to accommodate judicial clerkships. Before, schools were only creating "school funded" jobs to boost their "employed at 9 months after graduation" scores for the US News game. Now, they are simply creating year-long jobs to game the LST employment score.

The main perpetrators of this are UVA, NYU, Columbia, and George Washington. I haven't found a fifth school yet that seems to be gaming the LST rankings in this fashion. It just shows you that law school transparency is an ongoing battle, as these shysters will always be looking for a way around the rules.

User avatar
JamMasterJ
Posts: 6688
Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2011 7:17 pm

Re: Update Law School Rankings Page

Postby JamMasterJ » Thu Oct 11, 2012 12:13 pm

Lord Randolph McDuff wrote:
sawwaverunner wrote:It's ridiculous. The T19 schools are the only sure bet nowadays anyhow.


T-21 7 or bust.

User avatar
North
Posts: 4041
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 7:09 pm

Re: Update Law School Rankings Page

Postby North » Thu Oct 11, 2012 12:22 pm

On a related note, does anybody know why the rankings page lists each school's 25th and 75th GPA and LSAT but not their median GPA and LSAT? I've wondered that for a while.

Lord Randolph McDuff
Posts: 1587
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 4:37 pm

Re: Update Law School Rankings Page

Postby Lord Randolph McDuff » Thu Oct 11, 2012 12:50 pm

North wrote:On a related note, does anybody know why the rankings page lists each school's 25th and 75th GPA and LSAT but not their median GPA and LSAT? I've wondered that for a while.


The profiles should be edited out for flowery bullshit too. My school's page says something like, considered by many to be the best law school in the mountain west... There is zero practical importance to this statement. Considered by who and please define the mountain west. I don't care if you agree with the statement or not, statements like that are gobbled up by 1Ls from Connecticut looking to break into BIG DEER LAW. I've heard best ls in the mountain west tossed around by students and profs here. Let's not contribute to that either.




Return to “Choosing a Law School”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: favabeansoup, PKP319, TatteredDignity and 2 guests