Relatively More Realistic Rankings

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Doorkeeper
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Re: Relatively More Realistic Rankings

Postby Doorkeeper » Tue Oct 09, 2012 2:37 pm

Not really. The poll was conducted through Business Insider readers, which leads to a number of problems:
a) Only 60% of the respondents had JDs. So basically it's a 60/40 split between informed and naive opinion.
b) Only 69% of the respondents had "hiring experience". Who knows what the fuck that term means. Also, unless these 69% were hiring lawyers, their opinions are again naive to the legal market.
c) There's a strong bias in these results towards the business community, and I mean that in a broader sense to include, but not be limited to, the business of the legal profession. 23% work in finance. What the fuck is a Goldman banker going to know about the legal market?

Although I'm most happy about the results, it's a pretty stupid poll to base any decision on.

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Blessedassurance
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Re: Relatively More Realistic Rankings

Postby Blessedassurance » Tue Oct 09, 2012 2:42 pm

It's all relative but this sure beats USNWR...

HeavenWood
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Re: Relatively More Realistic Rankings

Postby HeavenWood » Tue Oct 09, 2012 3:11 pm

Blessedassurance wrote:It's all relative but this sure beats USNWR...

idk if I'd even say that. They did a worse job at ranking the T14.

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Blessedassurance
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Re: Relatively More Realistic Rankings

Postby Blessedassurance » Tue Oct 09, 2012 3:13 pm

Explain...the only mistake is probably Georgetown's rank.

HeavenWood
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Re: Relatively More Realistic Rankings

Postby HeavenWood » Tue Oct 09, 2012 3:15 pm

Blessedassurance wrote:Explain...the only mistake is probably Georgetown's rank.

Besides Georgetown, Harvard and Penn are ranked too high and Michigan is ranked too low.

rebexness
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Re: Relatively More Realistic Rankings

Postby rebexness » Tue Oct 09, 2012 3:15 pm

Last edited by rebexness on Mon Feb 09, 2015 5:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

rad lulz
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Re: Relatively More Realistic Rankings

Postby rad lulz » Tue Oct 09, 2012 3:23 pm

I quit reading bc these are stupid.

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Yukos
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Re: Relatively More Realistic Rankings

Postby Yukos » Tue Oct 09, 2012 3:24 pm

Blessedassurance wrote:Explain...the only mistake is probably Georgetown's rank.


And HLS...

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Br3v
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Re: Relatively More Realistic Rankings

Postby Br3v » Tue Oct 09, 2012 3:27 pm

Anyone else double take the UNC picture?

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unc0mm0n1
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Re: Relatively More Realistic Rankings

Postby unc0mm0n1 » Tue Oct 09, 2012 3:34 pm

Love the Comment they have listed for Cornell:

"Fordham, Penn, and Northwestern have been our best law recruits. MD at a F100 bank"

So you're saying Cornell sucks.

Or the one for Berkeley:

"Price and rankings point to Berkeley as the number [one] law school in US"

Love Berk and all but you're going to seriously cite price as to why it is a good school. The price to attend Berkeley is out of control and it goes up every year because Cali is bankrupt.

HeavenWood
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Re: Relatively More Realistic Rankings

Postby HeavenWood » Tue Oct 09, 2012 3:39 pm

unc0mm0n1 wrote:Love the Comment they have listed for Cornell:

"Fordham, Penn, and Northwestern have been our best law recruits. MD at a F100 bank"

So you're saying Cornell sucks.

Or the one for Berkeley:

"Price and rankings point to Berkeley as the number [one] law school in US"

Love Berk and all but you're going to seriously cite price as to why it is a good school. The price to attend Berkeley is out of control and it goes up every year because Cali is bankrupt.

If people are shelling out $60k annually in tuition alone, it must be good!

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quiver
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Re: Relatively More Realistic Rankings

Postby quiver » Tue Oct 09, 2012 3:46 pm

Any ranking that doesn't have Yale at #1 immediately loses all credibility.

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Doorkeeper
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Re: Relatively More Realistic Rankings

Postby Doorkeeper » Tue Oct 09, 2012 4:43 pm

quiver wrote:Any ranking that doesn't have Yale at #1 immediately loses all credibility.

You have to remember that this ranking is by Business Insider, and it is therefore the consensus opinion of the business community. In that small domain of law, it's not laughable to consider Harvard as above Yale. In fact, one area that Yale has historically done less well in attracting students away from Harvard and Stanford has been those with significant business/finance background. The rankings of this poll are totally in line with that sentiment from the business community.

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rayiner
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Re: Relatively More Realistic Rankings

Postby rayiner » Tue Oct 09, 2012 5:05 pm

HeavenWood wrote:
Blessedassurance wrote:Explain...the only mistake is probably Georgetown's rank.

Besides Georgetown, Harvard and Penn are ranked too high and Michigan is ranked too low.


I don't think any ranking that doesn't have Yale #1 is wrong. If I was trying to go into business or politics with a JD, I'd definitely take Harvard or even Stanford over Yale. And Penn and Michigan are ranked exactly where they should be. Georgetown is the only one that doesn't make sense, but no survey-based approach is going to capture the things that bring Georgetown down (large class size and placement into tight legal market).

I think this is a more sensible basis for the reputation component of a ranking than USNWR's polling a bunch of clueless law professors.

Also: ""Chicago... should be #1 on the list. Harvard is overrated." (Said Brian Leiter).

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danquayle
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Re: Relatively More Realistic Rankings

Postby danquayle » Tue Oct 09, 2012 8:25 pm

I more or less agree with the comments on to the veracity of the rankings, but the one thing I find surprising about this list is further verification of Illinois's actual precipitous fall. I'm quite surprised the scandal had a real and lasting effect on its reputation. 41 is historically very low for Illinois, and no one expressed even a small amount of shock.

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altoid99
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Re: Relatively More Realistic Rankings

Postby altoid99 » Tue Oct 09, 2012 9:47 pm

Hastings at #28? Ummmm riiiight.

RodneyRuxin
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Re: Relatively More Realistic Rankings

Postby RodneyRuxin » Tue Oct 09, 2012 9:52 pm

.

Gagnam Style
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Re: Relatively More Realistic Rankings

Postby Gagnam Style » Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:40 am

This is a strictly reputational ranking that doesn't neccessarily correlate with NLJ250 Hiring or Clerkship numbers. Harvard is Harvard, Georgetown is recognized nationally as a good law school for some reason, no outside of the legal community or the state of Michigan knows that U of M is a prestigious school, and businessmen love Penn for obvious reasons (Whartonnnnn).

Any more questions folks?

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unc0mm0n1
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Re: Relatively More Realistic Rankings

Postby unc0mm0n1 » Fri Oct 12, 2012 2:13 pm

Gagnam Style wrote:This is a strictly reputational ranking that doesn't neccessarily correlate with NLJ250 Hiring or Clerkship numbers. Harvard is Harvard, Georgetown is recognized nationally as a good law school for some reason, no outside of the legal community or the state of Michigan knows that U of M is a prestigious school, and businessmen love Penn for obvious reasons (Whartonnnnn).

Any more questions folks?


Seriously. I will admit I'm from the Midwest. But when I think of Great public schools, even at a highschool age, I always thought of Michigan and Berkeley. I would say that more people know UM is a good school than know Penn is a good school. Half of the country probably thinks Joe Paterno coached there.

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spicyyoda17
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Re: Relatively More Realistic Rankings

Postby spicyyoda17 » Fri Oct 12, 2012 2:18 pm

unc0mm0n1 wrote:
Gagnam Style wrote:This is a strictly reputational ranking that doesn't neccessarily correlate with NLJ250 Hiring or Clerkship numbers. Harvard is Harvard, Georgetown is recognized nationally as a good law school for some reason, no outside of the legal community or the state of Michigan knows that U of M is a prestigious school, and businessmen love Penn for obvious reasons (Whartonnnnn).

Any more questions folks?


Seriously. I will admit I'm from the Midwest. But when I think of Great public schools, even at a highschool age, I always thought of Michigan and Berkeley. I would say that more people know UM is a good school than know Penn is a good school. Half of the country probably thinks Joe Paterno coached there.


Midwesterner here . . . in my community (think suburb of Illinois/Indiana/Ohio) it is well known that UM is a solid public school. But if you were to ask somebody about UM vs. Penn for anything, they would say Penn is way above UM and probably not even comparable.

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danquayle
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Re: Relatively More Realistic Rankings

Postby danquayle » Fri Oct 12, 2012 2:32 pm

unc0mm0n1 wrote:
Gagnam Style wrote:This is a strictly reputational ranking that doesn't neccessarily correlate with NLJ250 Hiring or Clerkship numbers. Harvard is Harvard, Georgetown is recognized nationally as a good law school for some reason, no outside of the legal community or the state of Michigan knows that U of M is a prestigious school, and businessmen love Penn for obvious reasons (Whartonnnnn).

Any more questions folks?


Seriously. I will admit I'm from the Midwest. But when I think of Great public schools, even at a highschool age, I always thought of Michigan and Berkeley. I would say that more people know UM is a good school than know Penn is a good school. Half of the country probably thinks Joe Paterno coached there.


I think one ought to differentiate the masses from the informed. The informed are the ones making decisions, and they will certainly know Penn from Penn State.

In terms of "lay prestige", I honestly think Berkeley gets a leg up because its referred to as "Berkeley" and not California. There seems to be a prestige ceiling for any public university, even really good ones... likely because private institutions inherently seem more exclusive, and exclusivity is an oft used proxy for prestige.

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rayiner
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Re: Relatively More Realistic Rankings

Postby rayiner » Fri Oct 12, 2012 3:42 pm

You don't have to make micro-distinctions about lay prestige to understand the Penn versus Michigan ranking. Given the number of finance people in the survey, it's all about Wharton versus Ross.

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cahwc12
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Re: Relatively More Realistic Rankings

Postby cahwc12 » Fri Oct 12, 2012 5:01 pm

Not sure why American U is on that list when 65% of its graduates are underemployed. Even Cooley beats them out.

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Yukos
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Re: Relatively More Realistic Rankings

Postby Yukos » Fri Oct 12, 2012 7:10 pm

cahwc12 wrote:Not sure why American U is on that list when 65% of its graduates are underemployed. Even Cooley beats them out.



Dat international law prestige.




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