USNWR Rankings versus Employment* Rankings

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cahwc12
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Re: USNWR Rankings versus Employment* Rankings

Postby cahwc12 » Mon Oct 08, 2012 9:26 am

rayiner wrote:
cahwc12 wrote:Thanks, that is good advice. I guess my question to that is, does that preclude the possibility to make connections at a regional school through?

The only connections I have are to areas I have no desire to practice in. Other than that though, I am pretty open about living and practicing almost anywhere.


Unless you bring school + grades to the table, you need to have something else. If you don't like where you're from, then take a couple of years off after undergrad to work in a particular market then apply to schools in the area. Work experience makes you much more desirable for jobs, and working in a city is a great way to build connections in a market and show your dedication to staying in that market.


I've been out of UG 5 years, but much of that time has been spent on grad school and then living in Korea. I do have the chance to relocate in November or December, which could be of benefit I suppose.

I was under the impression that it was a disadvantage to not be from a regional school's region, but that it wasn't a dealbreaker by any means--it just added risk for the firm because if you aren't from the area, maybe you leave soon. I really don't know much at all about that though, which is mostly why I've been pining through data.

Real Madrid
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Re: USNWR Rankings versus Employment* Rankings

Postby Real Madrid » Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:12 pm

Sheffield wrote:
cahwc12 wrote:
Sheffield wrote:In your employment stats, how did UVA’s 17% school funded jobs effect the outcome? As you likely know, 17% is uncharacteristically high.


I counted everything that qualified under reporting as full-time, long-term, JD-required, bar-passage-required jobs--so it's certain that almost every school was somewhat skewed by self-reporting what they deem qualifies.

Somewhat skewed is one thing but when a school self-hires 5X the norm, their employment stats become blatantly distorted, in their favor. IMO: if not for UVA’s [17%] self-hires, chances are UVA would not be ranked in the top 10, much less #1. Just saying. . .


I get flamed every time I point out how egregiously UVA games the rankings, but you're absolutely right. They're completely shameless with their manipulation of LSAT/GPA medians and post-grad employment numbers.

Lord Randolph McDuff
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Re: USNWR Rankings versus Employment* Rankings

Postby Lord Randolph McDuff » Mon Oct 08, 2012 1:56 pm

WanderingPondering wrote:Thanks for doing this.

For what it's worth, this shows Mercer as having better numbers than UGA. Clearly context and actual breakdown of jobs is worth taking into consideration.


+1

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cahwc12
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Re: USNWR Rankings versus Employment* Rankings

Postby cahwc12 » Mon Oct 08, 2012 4:41 pm

Real Madrid wrote:
Sheffield wrote:
cahwc12 wrote:
Sheffield wrote:In your employment stats, how did UVA’s 17% school funded jobs effect the outcome? As you likely know, 17% is uncharacteristically high.


I counted everything that qualified under reporting as full-time, long-term, JD-required, bar-passage-required jobs--so it's certain that almost every school was somewhat skewed by self-reporting what they deem qualifies.

Somewhat skewed is one thing but when a school self-hires 5X the norm, their employment stats become blatantly distorted, in their favor. IMO: if not for UVA’s [17%] self-hires, chances are UVA would not be ranked in the top 10, much less #1. Just saying. . .


I get flamed every time I point out how egregiously UVA games the rankings, but you're absolutely right. They're completely shameless with their manipulation of LSAT/GPA medians and post-grad employment numbers.


I found it interesting that after removing flagrant cheating, UVA still ended up in the top 8. Beyond that there is surely more skewing going on, but given the categories I don't see any way to clean up the numbers further without detailed breakdowns.

Seeing the ABA count PI-interning on the same level as PP/PD is absurd, as is counting those returning to previous jobs as "employed," which turns what should be a negative statistic into a positive one.

Kurst
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Re: USNWR Rankings versus Employment* Rankings

Postby Kurst » Mon Oct 08, 2012 4:52 pm

cahwc12 wrote:given the categories I don't see any way to clean up the numbers further without detailed breakdowns.

The only unequivocally good employment outcomes from the ABA data are obtaining a federal clerkship or landing a job at a firm with 50 or more lawyers. Baristas can fill the Business & Industry section, law school funded positions can fill the Government and Public Interest sections, etc.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=195444#p5939234

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sunynp
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Re: USNWR Rankings versus Employment* Rankings

Postby sunynp » Mon Oct 08, 2012 5:15 pm

Kurst wrote:
cahwc12 wrote:given the categories I don't see any way to clean up the numbers further without detailed breakdowns.

The only unequivocally good employment outcomes from the ABA data are obtaining a federal clerkship or landing a job at a firm with 50 or more lawyers. Baristas can fill the Business & Industry section, law school funded positions can fill the Government and Public Interest sections, etc.

http://top-law-schools.com/forums/viewt ... 4#p5939234


I'm not sure I agree. There is still plenty of room for manipulation of data by the schools by assuming that jobs are full time long term when the student doesn't fill out all the info. Also they don't confirm employment of people who say they are employed.

But the thing that bothers me the most is that a job that lasts one year is permanent.




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