Indiana Tech Law School

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John Everyman
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Re: Indiana Tech Law School

Postby John Everyman » Fri Jun 20, 2014 3:58 pm

jrthor10 wrote:
TheSpanishMain wrote:
nothingtosee wrote:
Brut wrote:"There has been no panic, and no worrying."
-Dean Cumshot on accreditation

That is literally what people say when they are panicking and worrying



This article says all 28 students finished their first year...


Well, it's possible that someone finished their first year and then decided not to return for their second. Or maybe Pizza Hut is just a summer job. Or maybe this person figures now that they're no longer a 1L they're allowed to have a part time gig. Weird that they'd scrub all mention of the school though.


I get the hating on Indiana Tech Law School. It is well deserved and I support it wholeheartedly. The school is doing a complete disservice to every student it convinces to attend.

However, some of you seem to really be getting off on criticizing students who go there. Clearly all these students made a mistake, but the vast majority also probably made the decision to attend with incomplete information.

Those of you going after these kids come across as elitist pricks. Warning future students not to attend such an institution is a much better use of your time than making fun of their current employment.


eh

timbs4339
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Re: Indiana Tech Law School

Postby timbs4339 » Fri Jun 20, 2014 4:03 pm

jrthor10 wrote:
TheSpanishMain wrote:
nothingtosee wrote:
Brut wrote:"There has been no panic, and no worrying."
-Dean Cumshot on accreditation

That is literally what people say when they are panicking and worrying



This article says all 28 students finished their first year...


Well, it's possible that someone finished their first year and then decided not to return for their second. Or maybe Pizza Hut is just a summer job. Or maybe this person figures now that they're no longer a 1L they're allowed to have a part time gig. Weird that they'd scrub all mention of the school though.


I get the hating on Indiana Tech Law School. It is well deserved and I support it wholeheartedly. The school is doing a complete disservice to every student it convinces to attend.

However, some of you seem to really be getting off on criticizing students who go there. Clearly all these students made a mistake, but the vast majority also probably made the decision to attend with incomplete information.

Those of you going after these kids come across as elitist pricks. Warning future students not to attend such an institution is a much better use of your time than making fun of their current employment.


This. When people talk about posters in this forum being elitist, they mean this shit. Even if you think they should grow thicker skin, stuff like this drives people away from what might otherwise be life-changing advice. You're only benefiting law schools like Indy Tech by making fun of their students.

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ymmv
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Re: Indiana Tech Law School

Postby ymmv » Fri Jun 20, 2014 4:06 pm

jrthor10 wrote:
TheSpanishMain wrote:
nothingtosee wrote:
Brut wrote:"There has been no panic, and no worrying."
-Dean Cumshot on accreditation

That is literally what people say when they are panicking and worrying



This article says all 28 students finished their first year...


Well, it's possible that someone finished their first year and then decided not to return for their second. Or maybe Pizza Hut is just a summer job. Or maybe this person figures now that they're no longer a 1L they're allowed to have a part time gig. Weird that they'd scrub all mention of the school though.


I get the hating on Indiana Tech Law School. It is well deserved and I support it wholeheartedly. The school is doing a complete disservice to every student it convinces to attend.

However, some of you seem to really be getting off on criticizing students who go there. Clearly all these students made a mistake, but the vast majority also probably made the decision to attend with incomplete information.

Those of you going after these kids come across as elitist pricks. Warning future students not to attend such an institution is a much better use of your time than making fun of their current employment.


And you somehow don't think this thread is doing that?
Anyone who reads this conversation and still goes to ITLS is beyond all help or hope.

HRomanus
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Re: Indiana Tech Law School

Postby HRomanus » Fri Jun 20, 2014 4:13 pm

jrthor10 wrote:However, some of you seem to really be getting off on criticizing students who go there. Clearly all these students made a mistake, but the vast majority also probably made the decision to attend with incomplete information.


That would be a valid argument if the Internet didn't exist. Any search of "law school employment" will bring up numerous results detailing the struggling legal employment field on the first page. Students who attend ITTTT are either snowflake narcissists or fools who failed to do thirty minutes of research. Their comments seem to indicate that they're good people, but blindly naive and foolishly confident. I won't excuse moronic pre-law advisors or the ITTTT admissions staff, but seriously - these students have the ability to realize the insanity of attending.

NYSprague
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Re: Indiana Tech Law School

Postby NYSprague » Fri Jun 20, 2014 4:19 pm

HRomanus wrote:
jrthor10 wrote:However, some of you seem to really be getting off on criticizing students who go there. Clearly all these students made a mistake, but the vast majority also probably made the decision to attend with incomplete information.


That would be a valid argument if the Internet didn't exist. Any search of "law school employment" will bring up numerous results detailing the struggling legal employment field on the first page. Students who attend ITTTT are either snowflake narcissists or fools who failed to do thirty minutes of research. Their comments seem to indicate that they're good people, but blindly naive and foolishly confident. I won't excuse moronic pre-law advisors or the ITTTT admissions staff, but seriously - these students have the ability to realize the insanity of attending.


A flaw in this argument is that many people still believe that law school deans and admissions people are honorable with high moral standards. They believe them over internet postings.

This is one reason why Prof. Campos has been so important. He is one of the very few credible insiders willing to try to shine a light of reality on law school.

Look at the now former Dean complaining that we were bad lawyers with low standards because we called him out itt about his true motives for opening this school in this economy and over saturation of the profession. He presents himself as governed by high ethics. I'm sure he fooled a lot of people.

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jrthor10
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Re: Indiana Tech Law School

Postby jrthor10 » Fri Jun 20, 2014 4:25 pm

HRomanus wrote:
jrthor10 wrote:However, some of you seem to really be getting off on criticizing students who go there. Clearly all these students made a mistake, but the vast majority also probably made the decision to attend with incomplete information.


That would be a valid argument if the Internet didn't exist. Any search of "law school employment" will bring up numerous results detailing the struggling legal employment field on the first page. Students who attend ITTTT are either snowflake narcissists or fools who failed to do thirty minutes of research. Their comments seem to indicate that they're good people, but blindly naive and foolishly confident. I won't excuse moronic pre-law advisors or the ITTTT admissions staff, but seriously - these students have the ability to realize the insanity of attending.


It's really not worth getting into it with you here, but honestly, that just isn't the case. There are tons of available resources yes, but that assumes that someone even knows they should look at that information. People who get on TLS and then still choose to attend? Fine--I see your point. But there are lots of people who don't even know that they need to look at employment outcomes, job scores, etc. Their whole lives they've been told a law degree is the key to upward mobility. They just assume it's a good investment. I know that seems silly to you, and many others, but that's the truth.

I am not going to list off my credentials in an attempt to convince you I am informed enough on this matter to know what the hell I am talking about, but I will say I taught and tutored a number of students for the LSAT. You'd be absolutely stunned how many of them had no idea what the hell they were getting themselves into. While looking at employment prospects may seem like a necessary step to you and I, unfortunately it just isn't for others.

To the other poster who suggested making fun of people is the best way to get the message through to them: I'm glad you're not a motivational speaker. You think the most effective way to give advice is to make fun of people who made the same choice? Usually no.

HRomanus
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Re: Indiana Tech Law School

Postby HRomanus » Fri Jun 20, 2014 4:31 pm

NYSprague wrote:A flaw in this argument is that many people still believe that law school deans and admissions people are honorable with high moral standards. They believe them over internet postings.

This is one reason why Prof. Campos has been so important. He is one of the very few credible insiders willing to try to shine a light of reality on law school.


I realize how little the public understands law school and legal employment. In both overconfidence and ignorance, I don't think ITLS students were any different from the vast majority of 0Ls. But the facts are easily available and, with LST, clearly understandable. How much time and effort should you put into researching a profession for which you're spending significant money and time and in which you want to remain until retirement? Thirty minutes to an hour should be enough to realize attending a school like ITLS is insanity.

timbs4339
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Re: Indiana Tech Law School

Postby timbs4339 » Fri Jun 20, 2014 4:44 pm

As someone who spends wayyy too much time on an internet forum, I feel qualified to say this: people do not trust people who post on internet forums. Amazing stuff, I know, but it's true. For a student who wants to believe that law school is the answer to their problems, the smooth-talking Dean, clueless admissions counselor, or the Boomer uncle's friend's neighbor is always going to seem more persuasive than a post by a person who might not have any pants on as he is typing it up.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Indiana Tech Law School

Postby Tiago Splitter » Fri Jun 20, 2014 10:26 pm

jrthor10 wrote:You'd be absolutely stunned how many of them had no idea what the hell they were getting themselves into. While looking at employment prospects may seem like a necessary step to you and I, unfortunately it just isn't for others.

And yet the number of people applying to law school is way down. I don't have much sympathy for people who applied in 2006, because there was a lot of data out then and going blindly into 180k debt is pretty dumb, but I have zero sympathy for people applying now. I mean come the fuck on.

NYSprague
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Re: Indiana Tech Law School

Postby NYSprague » Fri Jun 20, 2014 10:46 pm

Tiago Splitter wrote:
jrthor10 wrote:You'd be absolutely stunned how many of them had no idea what the hell they were getting themselves into. While looking at employment prospects may seem like a necessary step to you and I, unfortunately it just isn't for others.

And yet the number of people applying to law school is way down. I don't have much sympathy for people who applied in 2006, because there was a lot of data out then and going blindly into 180k debt is pretty dumb, but I have zero sympathy for people applying now. I mean come the fuck on.

Don't forget these people are being lied to by people and institutions they trust and respect.
Also, the reality about law and law school still has a long way to go before people understand. Look at all the posters here who are still going to bad schools at sticker. Even people who find TLS don't listen to good advice for the most part. The blame goes on the liars who created and perpetuated the lies about employment and salaries for lawyers.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Indiana Tech Law School

Postby Tiago Splitter » Fri Jun 20, 2014 11:06 pm

NYSprague wrote:
Tiago Splitter wrote:
jrthor10 wrote:You'd be absolutely stunned how many of them had no idea what the hell they were getting themselves into. While looking at employment prospects may seem like a necessary step to you and I, unfortunately it just isn't for others.

And yet the number of people applying to law school is way down. I don't have much sympathy for people who applied in 2006, because there was a lot of data out then and going blindly into 180k debt is pretty dumb, but I have zero sympathy for people applying now. I mean come the fuck on.

Don't forget these people are being lied to by people and institutions they trust and respect.
Also, the reality about law and law school still has a long way to go before people understand. Look at all the posters here who are still going to bad schools at sticker. Even people who find TLS don't listen to good advice for the most part. The blame goes on the liars who created and perpetuated the lies about employment and salaries for lawyers.

So? You're stupid if you go to Indiana Tech. Not a tough concept.

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beachbum
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Re: Indiana Tech Law School

Postby beachbum » Sat Jun 21, 2014 12:43 am

Yeah, blaming one doesn't have to preclude blaming the other. True, Indy Tech administrators are con artists, and they deserve all the ridicule we can throw at them. But, on the other side of the coin, Indy Tech students are willfully ignorant to the point of throwing their lives away. I mean, it's 2014, not 2005. The information is out there, and it's readily available. And given the costs and commitments of law school (both short- and long-term), if you can't do a quick Google search before taking the plunge, then, yeah, you're an idiot.

Now, I don't think anyone on TLS should be actively going after these people - no need to pile on; these kids are already at Indy Tech - but, at the same time, making an awesomely bad decision in the law school context shouldn't shield you from responsibility for that decision, or prevent others from (justifiably) thinking you're not quite playing with a full deck.

NYSprague
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Re: Indiana Tech Law School

Postby NYSprague » Sat Jun 21, 2014 8:05 am

beachbum wrote:Yeah, blaming one doesn't have to preclude blaming the other. True, Indy Tech administrators are con artists, and they deserve all the ridicule we can throw at them. But, on the other side of the coin, Indy Tech students are willfully ignorant to the point of throwing their lives away. I mean, it's 2014, not 2005. The information is out there, and it's readily available. And given the costs and commitments of law school (both short- and long-term), if you can't do a quick Google search before taking the plunge, then, yeah, you're an idiot.

Now, I don't think anyone on TLS should be actively going after these people - no need to pile on; these kids are already at Indy Tech - but, at the same time, making an awesomely bad decision in the law school context shouldn't shield you from responsibility for that decision, or prevent others from (justifiably) thinking you're not quite playing with a full deck.


I guess if I started really blaming the students, I feel that a good number of the people on this forum are just as stupid. Refusing to retake or paying sticker at schools like GW or American? Stupid. Going to known scam schools here in New York? Stupid. Paying for any school in NYC outside NYU, Columbia and Fordham (and even then sticker is too expensive)? Stupid.

This forum is filled with people making stupid decisions. Indiana Tech is just the easiest to attack.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Indiana Tech Law School

Postby Tiago Splitter » Sat Jun 21, 2014 9:10 am

NYSprague wrote:I guess if I started really blaming the students, I feel that a good number of the people on this forum are just as stupid. Refusing to retake or paying sticker at schools like GW or American? Stupid. Going to known scam schools here in New York? Stupid. Paying for any school in NYC outside NYU, Columbia and Fordham (and even then sticker is too expensive)? Stupid.

This forum is filled with people making stupid decisions. Indiana Tech is just the easiest to attack.

You're absolutely right, and there's a reason why threads like "American $ v. Catholic $$" end up several pages deep. People making those decisions do get attacked, and rightfully so. Doesn't mean anyone is letting the schools off the hook.

NYSprague
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Re: Indiana Tech Law School

Postby NYSprague » Sat Jun 21, 2014 9:14 am

Tiago Splitter wrote:
NYSprague wrote:I guess if I started really blaming the students, I feel that a good number of the people on this forum are just as stupid. Refusing to retake or paying sticker at schools like GW or American? Stupid. Going to known scam schools here in New York? Stupid. Paying for any school in NYC outside NYU, Columbia and Fordham (and even then sticker is too expensive)? Stupid.

This forum is filled with people making stupid decisions. Indiana Tech is just the easiest to attack.

You're absolutely right, and there's a reason why threads like "American $ v. Catholic $$" end up several pages deep. People making those decisions do get attacked, and rightfully so. Doesn't mean anyone is letting the schools off the hook.

It would almost be easier to make a list of schools and prices that aren't stupid decisions. Wasn't there a df thread that was heading that way? I can't find it.

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TheSpanishMain
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Re: Indiana Tech Law School

Postby TheSpanishMain » Sat Jun 21, 2014 9:29 am

jrthor10 wrote:
TheSpanishMain wrote:
nothingtosee wrote:
Brut wrote:"There has been no panic, and no worrying."
-Dean Cumshot on accreditation

That is literally what people say when they are panicking and worrying



This article says all 28 students finished their first year...


Well, it's possible that someone finished their first year and then decided not to return for their second. Or maybe Pizza Hut is just a summer job. Or maybe this person figures now that they're no longer a 1L they're allowed to have a part time gig. Weird that they'd scrub all mention of the school though.




I get the hating on Indiana Tech Law School. It is well deserved and I support it wholeheartedly. The school is doing a complete disservice to every student it convinces to attend.

However, some of you seem to really be getting off on criticizing students who go there. Clearly all these students made a mistake, but the vast majority also probably made the decision to attend with incomplete information.

Those of you going after these kids come across as elitist pricks. Warning future students not to attend such an institution is a much better use of your time than making fun of their current employment.


It's weird that my post prompted this, since I was just speculating on reasons someone might be working at Pizza Hut and still be a student at ITT. I do think it's fine to make fun of these people, though. I also think it's fine to make fun of someone going to law school, T14 included, at sticker.

timbs4339
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Re: Indiana Tech Law School

Postby timbs4339 » Sat Jun 21, 2014 10:02 am

TheSpanishMain wrote:It's weird that my post prompted this, since I was just speculating on reasons someone might be working at Pizza Hut and still be a student at ITT. I do think it's fine to make fun of these people, though. I also think it's fine to make fun of someone going to law school, T14 included, at sticker.


What is the point of making fun of them other than for your own amusement?

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TheSpanishMain
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Re: Indiana Tech Law School

Postby TheSpanishMain » Sat Jun 21, 2014 10:33 am

timbs4339 wrote:
TheSpanishMain wrote:It's weird that my post prompted this, since I was just speculating on reasons someone might be working at Pizza Hut and still be a student at ITT. I do think it's fine to make fun of these people, though. I also think it's fine to make fun of someone going to law school, T14 included, at sticker.


What is the point of making fun of them other than for your own amusement?


Dissuading others from doing the same.

I suppose the underlying belief here is that the students aren't entirely blameless in all this. Sure, they're less to blame than the boomer deans taking advantage of them, but they're still spectacularly failing to do basic research before investing years of their lives and quite a bit of money. It's sort of the same reason I roll my eyes when people refer to law students as "kids", as in "twelve kids from Duke got SAs there last year." I know it's a silly thing to be annoyed by, but I don't feel like it's unfair to the students to subject their decisions to an adult level of scrutiny. If they were 14, sure, they'd be 100% the victims here. They're old enough to buy booze, join the military, marry, and buy fireworks. They're old enough that we can expect a little more from them. They're adults, and college educated ones at that.

But yes, I admit sometimes I laugh at a pond cummings joke for no reason other than it makes me laugh, not because it serves some greater good.

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haus
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Re: Indiana Tech Law School

Postby haus » Sat Jun 21, 2014 2:06 pm

TheSpanishMain wrote:
timbs4339 wrote:
TheSpanishMain wrote:It's weird that my post prompted this, since I was just speculating on reasons someone might be working at Pizza Hut and still be a student at ITT. I do think it's fine to make fun of these people, though. I also think it's fine to make fun of someone going to law school, T14 included, at sticker.


What is the point of making fun of them other than for your own amusement?


Dissuading others from doing the same.

I suppose the underlying belief here is that the students aren't entirely blameless in all this. Sure, they're less to blame than the boomer deans taking advantage of them, but they're still spectacularly failing to do basic research before investing years of their lives and quite a bit of money. It's sort of the same reason I roll my eyes when people refer to law students as "kids", as in "twelve kids from Duke got SAs there last year." I know it's a silly thing to be annoyed by, but I don't feel like it's unfair to the students to subject their decisions to an adult level of scrutiny. If they were 14, sure, they'd be 100% the victims here. They're old enough to buy booze, join the military, marry, and buy fireworks. They're old enough that we can expect a little more from them. They're adults, and college educated ones at that.

But yes, I admit sometimes I laugh at a pond cummings joke for no reason other than it makes me laugh, not because it serves some greater good.

Well to be fair, many of the people going the K-JD route really do have much more in common with kids than adults.

Lord Randolph McDuff
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Re: Indiana Tech Law School

Postby Lord Randolph McDuff » Sat Jun 21, 2014 2:24 pm

When has blaming others ever helped anyone, really? These "kids"
are responsible for their own lives. They should hear the truth, less they graduate from this law school and choose to blame the administration for their woes, which will not help them.

The administration is obviously the worst, used car salesmen that sell invisible cars for $100k. Still, the students are also to blame.

Now, if the question is what type of TLS dialogue will dissuade future students from signing on to this law school, I have no idea. When you attack someone the most common reaction is to demonize the attacker and justify the behavior. I dont believe that TLS has the primary duty of combating the higher education scam, so I don't ask these questions.

Atlanticist
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Re: Indiana Tech Law School

Postby Atlanticist » Sun Jun 22, 2014 5:45 am

TheSpanishMain wrote:
timbs4339 wrote:
TheSpanishMain wrote:It's weird that my post prompted this, since I was just speculating on reasons someone might be working at Pizza Hut and still be a student at ITT. I do think it's fine to make fun of these people, though. I also think it's fine to make fun of someone going to law school, T14 included, at sticker.


What is the point of making fun of them other than for your own amusement?


Dissuading others from doing the same.

I suppose the underlying belief here is that the students aren't entirely blameless in all this. Sure, they're less to blame than the boomer deans taking advantage of them, but they're still spectacularly failing to do basic research before investing years of their lives and quite a bit of money. It's sort of the same reason I roll my eyes when people refer to law students as "kids", as in "twelve kids from Duke got SAs there last year." I know it's a silly thing to be annoyed by, but I don't feel like it's unfair to the students to subject their decisions to an adult level of scrutiny. If they were 14, sure, they'd be 100% the victims here. They're old enough to buy booze, join the military, marry, and buy fireworks. They're old enough that we can expect a little more from them. They're adults, and college educated ones at that.



SM, I agree with everything you've said, but I've got a sightly different perspective.

I just read an interesting article in the "best articles on the interweb" thread, called "why politics makes you stupid". The basic hypothesis is that political consultants have realised that to be presented with evidence that goes against your (and your friends and families) fervently held beliefs is really uncomfortable, to the extent that you will often refuse to believe it. Instead, if presented with just enough evidence to affirm your current beliefs, no matter how tenuous, you'll cling to it. Which is why, when a congressman from Texas or Oklahoma trots out some shyster "scientist" to disavow the mountain of evidence in favour of anthropocentric global warming, they get such a warm reception (pardon the pun) on Hannity etc. Anything, even to the point of shutting down your critical faculties, to have your deeply held political views affirmed.

I think this is what's still going on out there in law school land. Imagine the pressure on a 23 year old liberal arts student with a good GPA working a shitty shift at Starbucks, who's boomer uncle cracks jokes about when he/she's going to get a proper job. They know their boomer parents, who know nothing about the law school scam "would be so proud", and they know they're wearing out their welcome back in the familial basement. Peers from undergrad have landed jobs and are starting out on their careers, but they're stuck. In their parents basement, with $50k of undergrad debt, working 70 hours a week in Starbucks, with all the psychological stress that comes with a bright kid not fulfilling their potential.

Enter the law school hucksters, dangling 3 years of being treated like royalty, an ability to tell friends and family, "yeah, I'm in law school", the chance (slim to none according to LST data) of landing an awesome job at the end........EVERY critical faculty goes out of the window. People are being promised a dream, not a job, and for many, in today's economy, that dream is VERY VERY seductive.

I think that's what's going on. The psychological pressure is too great for some, deans know the VERY message to deliver to tap into it, and are sucking the life out of these kids for their material gain. I blame the kids, sure, perhaps 10%, but 90% of the blame, in my view, goes to the deans and their enablers in the ABA.

Though I accept your own view on this probably depends on your philosophical views around personal agency.

20141023
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Re: Indiana Tech Law School

Postby 20141023 » Sun Jun 22, 2014 7:32 am

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Last edited by 20141023 on Sat Feb 14, 2015 1:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

Atlanticist
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Re: Indiana Tech Law School

Postby Atlanticist » Sun Jun 22, 2014 8:45 am

kappycaft1 wrote: I tried explaining that there just aren't as many jobs as there are graduates, but even after stating some of the stats it didn't seem to click. It seems like a lot of boomers just don't understand what it is like to be in an economy where you literally cannot find full-time employment (not counting something like working at McDonald's 50 hours a week with no benefits / insurance / retirement options / etc.). :|


Psychologically, perhaps the same thing is going on here too. A desperate unwillingness to look unpleasant evidence square in the eye. Boomer parents just can't face the fact that the social contract they grew up in and delivered them unparalleled prosperity was more contingent than they thought. The idea that if you work hard enough, hustle enough, accrue enough prestigious educational qualifications, it'll all come right. All their material success was down to this contract. Work hard, WANT it enough and it'll happen.

They can't accept that, like the fund managers described in Fooled by Randomness, their success perhaps was down to circumstance and happenstance. Less was down to their own talents than they thought. So, they blame their kids that their outcomes aren't like theirs and they blame their kids for not wanting it enough or not being talented enough. Unable to buy a 2 bed at the age of 27 ? Crazy.

That ship sailed. Read The Unwinding by George Packer, and encourage all your boomer relatives to do the same.

timbs4339
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Re: Indiana Tech Law School

Postby timbs4339 » Sun Jun 22, 2014 11:49 am

TheSpanishMain wrote:
timbs4339 wrote:
TheSpanishMain wrote:It's weird that my post prompted this, since I was just speculating on reasons someone might be working at Pizza Hut and still be a student at ITT. I do think it's fine to make fun of these people, though. I also think it's fine to make fun of someone going to law school, T14 included, at sticker.


What is the point of making fun of them other than for your own amusement?


Dissuading others from doing the same.

I suppose the underlying belief here is that the students aren't entirely blameless in all this. Sure, they're less to blame than the boomer deans taking advantage of them, but they're still spectacularly failing to do basic research before investing years of their lives and quite a bit of money. It's sort of the same reason I roll my eyes when people refer to law students as "kids", as in "twelve kids from Duke got SAs there last year." I know it's a silly thing to be annoyed by, but I don't feel like it's unfair to the students to subject their decisions to an adult level of scrutiny. If they were 14, sure, they'd be 100% the victims here. They're old enough to buy booze, join the military, marry, and buy fireworks. They're old enough that we can expect a little more from them. They're adults, and college educated ones at that.

But yes, I admit sometimes I laugh at a pond cummings joke for no reason other than it makes me laugh, not because it serves some greater good.


I agree that they are failing to do basic research, but the question is why. And the answer is that they don't think that they need to, and it seems sensible to them. A lot of these kids are probably first-generation college students. They don't know any lawyers, but they know TV. And they don't have any other viable white-collar employment options. And at age 22 they are essentially being asked to mortgage their futures by, on the one hand, what they know and assume is a respected institution of higher ed, and on the other, a bunch of faceless posters on an online forum.

Although I'd like to think TLS and LST have an impact, in truth I think most of the decline in applicants is due to just the massive amount of press this issues has gotten that is changing the common wisdom for some students. When the default option switches from "go" to "don't go" that doesn't mean students are doing more research or better analysis, it just means the culture is changing. But it's not changing all at once in all places, and you get schools like ITLS or the folks on the LawLemmings feed.

Come on man, just think about all the people you know. Would you really trust the average kid in your HS graduating class to be able to properly evaluate this decision? Would you be able to trust yourself, before you found TLS?

To the second part of your point, making fun of the existing students does not really tell lurkers all this. It just seems like you're getting your jollies. And, believe me, unless you're going to Yale, you might very well end up in the same place in the end.

hiima3L
Posts: 837
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 10:26 pm

Re: Indiana Tech Law School

Postby hiima3L » Sun Jun 22, 2014 1:27 pm

NYSprague wrote:
beachbum wrote:Yeah, blaming one doesn't have to preclude blaming the other. True, Indy Tech administrators are con artists, and they deserve all the ridicule we can throw at them. But, on the other side of the coin, Indy Tech students are willfully ignorant to the point of throwing their lives away. I mean, it's 2014, not 2005. The information is out there, and it's readily available. And given the costs and commitments of law school (both short- and long-term), if you can't do a quick Google search before taking the plunge, then, yeah, you're an idiot.

Now, I don't think anyone on TLS should be actively going after these people - no need to pile on; these kids are already at Indy Tech - but, at the same time, making an awesomely bad decision in the law school context shouldn't shield you from responsibility for that decision, or prevent others from (justifiably) thinking you're not quite playing with a full deck.


I guess if I started really blaming the students, I feel that a good number of the people on this forum are just as stupid. Refusing to retake or paying sticker at schools like GW or American? Stupid. Going to known scam schools here in New York? Stupid. Paying for any school in NYC outside NYU, Columbia and Fordham (and even then sticker is too expensive)? Stupid.

This forum is filled with people making stupid decisions. Indiana Tech is just the easiest to attack.


You are right. Lots of people on this forum and elsewhere make mind-numbingly poor decisions. Sometimes being blunt with people is the only way, or the most effective way, of getting through to them. These are serious, potentially life-ruining decisions, so holding back ridicule so that grown, rational adults' feelings aren't hurt for the sake of civility is imprudent.

I'm positive there are people out there who considered Tech, but after seeing this thread, they completely abandoned the idea. If this thread were a bunch of civil, "Oh this is a potentially poor financial decision, here's why, perhaps you should reconsider!" comments, the general consensus would not have been as blatantly clear as it is.

Telling someone "You are a fucking idiot for even considering this school" is a lot more effective, to me, than saying "Tech is a bad idea and here's why." A lot of people won't listen to pesky facts, statistics, and undeniable probabilities. They are dumb and making bad decisions. They need to be told that bluntly. If they can't be dissuaded by objective evidence, then hopefully ridicule and being ostracized will work. I genuinely do not want these anonymous, unknown people to make the financially disastrous decision of attending the fraudulent shithole that is Tech. So hopefully telling them that they are fucking idiots for even considering the school will dissuade them.




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