Indiana Tech Law School

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Atlanticist
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Re: Indiana Tech Law School

Postby Atlanticist » Sun Jun 15, 2014 8:38 am

JCougar wrote:
eweller wrote:i suggest we get "areyouinsane" to debate dean alexander.


Best idea ever. I wonder what happened to that guy. He was a very entertaining writer. You could fill a novel with all his material.


For those of you, like me, who weren't around TLS in the summer of 2011 (the all too brief 3 months that areyouinsane posted on here.......), before I share a spectacularly funny post of his, this is the background......

It's early summer 2011; Paul Campos was two months away from his first incendiary posting on his insidethelawschoolscam blog; for those with eyes to see, the return on the investment of 3 years at law school was marginal at best and insane at worst, yet TLS was still full of misty-eyed 0L's full of hope and moderators who in the main served as boosters for this jurisprudential dream.......

Into this heady mix of increasing doubt about the future and evangelical prestige fervor that is TLS at it's smug worst, entered areyouinsane. Ignoring the moderators constant threats of banishment, for 3 months, he regaled everyone with outrageously funny stories from the basement of shitlaw. JDUnderground on steroids. An example, one of many........

"I poasted this in the Rutgers-Newark thread earlier to tell these kids about "midlaw" firm McCarter & English in Newark NJ. Those kids didn't care for it but maybe you guys will like it:

We used to scroll thru the McCarter associate bios while I was temping there, and most of these mouth breathers are from laughable garbage schools like Seton Hall/NYLS, and got hired because their Daddies work there or their Daddies are federal judges, CEOs, or other "grease" and nepotism. Or they're bottom of the classers from "real" law schools like NYU who got dinged by the NYC biglaw firms and had to ride the PATH out to NJ with their tail between their legs and take a gig at this ghetto-assed dump.

Their offices are also very outdated and borderline embarrassing for a "big" firm. They don't even have their own cafeteria. It's a 1970s era building and the associates share offices. There's one really fat partner who I used to ride the elevator with a lot- he always had a huge hoagie from Subway and mowed it right in the elevator, like something out of a comedy movie or whatever. The lawyers there also dress poorly and are mostly total slobs.

Here's a funny story: I was temping on the big Seroquel case there back in 2008. McCarter was apparently in major trouble before that case came in and the firm was in danger of splitting up. So they poached a partner from a "real" firm and she had a relative at Astra-Zeneca who gave McCarter the doc review portion of the litigation (all the "real" work like motions, objections, etc was done in NYC by I think White & Case- you couldn't trust the mouth-breathers at McCarter with anything important LOL). This broad apparently got a big cut of the action from bringing in that case- she was made instant partner and got a limo to work, etc. I saw her once and she was kinda hot in a cougar sort of way.

So McCarter (after landing the doc review) rented off-site space at the US Customs Building across from SH Law and fired up the project. 90% of the coders were SH or Rutgers grads- it was like a "New Joisey" class reunion! I got called on a Sunday and was hired over the phone - they said "just show up there 8 am Monday." Back then all you needed was bar admission and a pulse to get these gigs (pulse optional).

So anyway, after a couple months we got to a portion of the doc review where the European docs showed up: stuff was in Swedish, Danish, German, etc. So McCarter hired outside non-lawyer translators to read us the docs so we could decide if they were responsive or not. These translators were some real characters: there was a semi-blind old Japanese woman we called "Yoko Ono" and this incredibly good looking Danish underwear model named Lucas. I was assigned to work with Lucas and all the chicks were ga-ga jealous and asking me "what's he like" and "I'd bone him right here on this desk" and stuff like that.

Lucas, however, "played for the other team." He was always talking about his "partner" and their pad in Chelsea and stuff like that. He also told me that in Denmark an employer would be imprisoned for the kind of shit working conditions McCarter gave us. We literally worked in a converted janitor's closet- there was a "slop sink" in the corner and shelves full of trash bags, floor cleaner, etc. They made a desk for us by putting a 4X8 sheet of plywood on top of 2 sawhorses. We sat in metal folding chairs. You see, we had to be "sequestered" somewhere somewhat private since they had to read this shit to us out loud so we could code it.

I learned quite a bit of Danish from Lucas too. If I was gay I'd def. want a partner like him. He told me he turned gay b/c he got tired of sleeping with hot chicks after awhile because it came so easy for him. Seriously, this guy could walk into a bar and chicks would ditch Derek Jeter to hang w/ this dood. Kind of like when the Fonz walked into Arnold's.

So anyway, the translators were treated like VIPs compared to us shitlaw temps, since they spoke rare and "exotic" languages and were not very easily replaced. They also got paid a LOT more than us: they were getting 55-75 an hour, and none of them were even lawyers or JDs, just translators. They got car rides home (and the blind lady Yoko Ono even got led into the room by an associate each day b/c she could only see "sideways," apparently). My buddy Holbs had to work with her and she was always having him tilt the screen and rub her neck & stuff like that. She was from Kyoto originally and spoke like 10 other languages besides Japanese. She hardly got any work done because as I said she was pretty much blind, and also she wrote everyone's names in Japanese with those fancy paintbrush-type pens and made little cards & oragami for people to take home. She was a very nice woman.

McCarter even brought them in these awesome box lunches each day from a gourmet caterer in Jersey City. These swanky lunchboxes had proscuttio and mozz. sandwiches, bottles of Perrier water, a fresh apple & orange, and those elite potato chips that are all purple and shit.

It was funny watching them all go to the conference room and pick up their grub everyday while we worked right alongside them and got jack shit- we usually ate at the crummy overpriced McDonald's inside Newark Penn Station. Lucas was always like "if you guys are really lawyers, why don't you get a box lunch like us?" I told him that we were just temps and went to shitty schools so they had no need to treat us like anything other than garbage. He found America very interesting and said he was gonna tell everyone in Denmark about how weird life here is. He took pictures of the janitor closet we worked in with his Iphone and sent them to friends back home, and none of them belived he was really working in such squalor. Sometimes if he wasn't too hungry he'd share his box lunch with me, or at least give me the apple or the chips, etc."

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North
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Re: Indiana Tech Law School

Postby North » Sun Jun 15, 2014 9:47 am

That guy was a gift.

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monsterman
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Re: Indiana Tech Law School

Postby monsterman » Sun Jun 15, 2014 11:58 am

Having never read any of areyouinsane's posts, I did a search and it is some of the funniest shit ever.

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Crowing
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Re: Indiana Tech Law School

Postby Crowing » Sun Jun 15, 2014 12:54 pm

North wrote:That guy was a gift.


Yeah idk if he was real or not but those stories were all hilarious regardless

03152016
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Re: Indiana Tech Law School

Postby 03152016 » Sun Jun 15, 2014 1:42 pm

He had a blog for a while, deleted it when he got a jerb. Archive.org has it archived for posterity, here's a pretty good entry: --LinkRemoved--

sighsigh
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Re: Indiana Tech Law School

Postby sighsigh » Mon Jun 16, 2014 3:03 am

Edited.

sighsigh
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Re: Indiana Tech Law School

Postby sighsigh » Mon Jun 16, 2014 3:14 am

As for what is up to these days... well, it seems like his dream of becoming an electrician never came to fruition. I'll just leave

NYSprague
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Re: Indiana Tech Law School

Postby NYSprague » Mon Jun 16, 2014 7:48 am

I thought areyouinsane got banned because he kept posting in the school specific threads questioning why people would go to these schools?

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06102016
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Re: Indiana Tech Law School

Postby 06102016 » Mon Jun 16, 2014 10:52 am

..

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prezidentv8
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Re: Indiana Tech Law School

Postby prezidentv8 » Mon Jun 16, 2014 12:39 pm

Off topic, but I figure the crowd in this thread will appreciate this:

http://www.kesq.com/news/uc-irvines-school-of-law-joins-elite-group-of-law-schools/26380976

Atlanticist
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Re: Indiana Tech Law School

Postby Atlanticist » Mon Jun 16, 2014 12:48 pm

prezidentv8 wrote:Off topic, but I figure the crowd in this thread will appreciate this:

http://www.kesq.com/news/uc-irvines-school-of-law-joins-elite-group-of-law-schools/26380976


Anyone have any insight as to ITLSs numbers for this coming academic year ?

Atlanticist
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Re: Indiana Tech Law School

Postby Atlanticist » Mon Jun 16, 2014 12:49 pm

prezidentv8 wrote:Off topic, but I figure the crowd in this thread will appreciate this:

http://www.kesq.com/news/uc-irvines-school-of-law-joins-elite-group-of-law-schools/26380976


"Just 203 schools"

Lol

BigZuck
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Re: Indiana Tech Law School

Postby BigZuck » Mon Jun 16, 2014 12:51 pm

Atlanticist wrote:
prezidentv8 wrote:Off topic, but I figure the crowd in this thread will appreciate this:

http://www.kesq.com/news/uc-irvines-school-of-law-joins-elite-group-of-law-schools/26380976


"Just 203 schools"

Lol


"Fewer than 20 in CA"

03152016
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Re: Indiana Tech Law School

Postby 03152016 » Mon Jun 16, 2014 1:14 pm

Atlanticist wrote:
prezidentv8 wrote:Off topic, but I figure the crowd in this thread will appreciate this:

http://www.kesq.com/news/uc-irvines-school-of-law-joins-elite-group-of-law-schools/26380976


Anyone have any insight as to ITLSs numbers for this coming academic year ?

Funny, when you posted that i initially thought you were referring to inside the law school scam
Apropos

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TheSpanishMain
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Re: Indiana Tech Law School

Postby TheSpanishMain » Mon Jun 16, 2014 2:04 pm

Holy clickbait on that page.

"Ten Viagra secrets OBAMA doesn't want you to know about!!!"

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Ricky-Bobby
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Re: Indiana Tech Law School

Postby Ricky-Bobby » Mon Jun 16, 2014 2:43 pm

TheSpanishMain wrote:Holy clickbait on that page.

"Ten Viagra secrets OBAMA doesn't want you to know about!!!"

AdBlock Plus: you won't have to know about boner pills that Obama is hiding

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prezidentv8
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Re: Indiana Tech Law School

Postby prezidentv8 » Mon Jun 16, 2014 3:02 pm

TheSpanishMain wrote:Holy clickbait on that page.

"Ten Viagra secrets OBAMA doesn't want you to know about!!!"


That's the most boomery boomerism ive ever boomered my eyes on

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JCougar
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Re: Indiana Tech Law School

Postby JCougar » Mon Jun 16, 2014 3:48 pm

Brut wrote:He had a blog for a while, deleted it when he got a jerb. Archive.org has it archived for posterity, here's a pretty good entry: --LinkRemoved--


That entry is a masterpiece. My favorite part:

In NYC as I write, the rates for most temp projects are $28 an hour straight time for admitted attorneys, with no health benefits, no paid leave, and zero opportunity for advancement. Packed elbow to elbow in stifling broom closets and windowless backrooms, these “losers” (many of whom are laid-off graduates of so-called “elite” schools) stare into the alkaline glow of their monitors and click thru reams of the dullest, driest, most pointless shitpaper mankind has ever produced. Many arrive home at night with their eyes weeping blood. The fun quickly wears off after the twelfth hour of scanning a Global Broker-Dealer Bilateral Sub-Agreement to see if Paragraph 14(b)9vii contains the word “if” as opposed to “shall.” Picking fly shit out of black pepper would be a more intellectually stimulating (and probably better paying) job.


Sadly, this will cease to be funny, and end up being a sad reality for a good 50% of law grads that graduate from "good Tier 1 law schools." Many in even the Top 25 will lead these types of lives with soul-crushing debt, having to lie out of shame to their family and friends back home about what their job is like being a "smarty-pants lawyer in the big city." It's not just Indy Tech that's a scam. It's pretty much every law school.

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TheSpanishMain
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Re: Indiana Tech Law School

Postby TheSpanishMain » Mon Jun 16, 2014 5:46 pm

JCougar wrote:Sadly, this will cease to be funny, and end up being a sad reality for a good 50% of law grads that graduate from "good Tier 1 law schools." Many in even the Top 25 will lead these types of lives with soul-crushing debt, having to lie out of shame to their family and friends back home about what their job is like being a "smarty-pants lawyer in the big city." It's not just Indy Tech that's a scam. It's pretty much every law school.


Yes and no, in my opinion. Or at least, it's a question of degree. Indiana Tech is pretty much an unmitigated scam, because the value of the degree probably approaches zero. There are plenty of law schools, though, that actually provide some value to their graduates. However, that value is worth sticker debt for almost no one. So yes, virtually every law school is a scam to the extent that they let students borrow 300k from the government when the value of the degree is probably less than that.

As far as Indiana Tech goes, I go back and forth about whether I feel sorry for these rubes or not. Five years ago, when there was very little reliable employment data and much less awareness in general of the law school scam, I'd have had more sympathy. These days, though, the data is all out there for someone with access to Google. There really is no explanation other than willful ignorance.

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JCougar
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Re: Indiana Tech Law School

Postby JCougar » Mon Jun 16, 2014 7:12 pm

TheSpanishMain wrote:Yes and no, in my opinion. Or at least, it's a question of degree. Indiana Tech is pretty much an unmitigated scam, because the value of the degree probably approaches zero. There are plenty of law schools, though, that actually provide some value to their graduates. However, that value is worth sticker debt for almost no one. So yes, virtually every law school is a scam to the extent that they let students borrow 300k from the government when the value of the degree is probably less than that.


The problem with this line of reasoning is that it seems to be dealing with averages. Schools outside of HYSCC, if you average the starting salaries, might still look like fair investments to those who took on average debt.

However, the problem is that a law degree becomes really worth it for a select few, and worth $0 to far more people, such that while the averages look ok, there's still 50-75% of all law graduates who basically get negative value out of going to law school once you consider interest accrued, salary forgone in other fields, etc. 50% get jobs as a lawyer, but remember that probably more than half of these 50% have such shitty pay that the will never be able to pay off sticker debt without a loan forgiveness program. The problem is only slightly better as you approach the tail end of the T14. It's all about OCI. If you strike out at OCI, no matter how good the school, chances of your degree having negative worth are close to 100%.

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TheSpanishMain
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Re: Indiana Tech Law School

Postby TheSpanishMain » Mon Jun 16, 2014 7:21 pm

JCougar wrote: If you strike out at OCI, no matter how good the school, chances of your degree having negative worth are close to 100%.


Agree, if you're gunning for Big Law and you took on serious debt, missing out at OCI is catastrophic. That said, there are plenty of people who are targeting something else entirely: small firm work, ADA/PD stuff, etc. Those people still need to go to a strong regional school and really limit debt, but I don't think you can say that (nearly) 100% of people who don't get something at OCI are boned. I understand what you're saying about bimodal salaries, and how looking at the mean is worthless. I've argued before that paying sticker anywhere, HYS included, is stupid.

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JCougar
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Re: Indiana Tech Law School

Postby JCougar » Mon Jun 16, 2014 7:30 pm

TheSpanishMain wrote:
JCougar wrote: If you strike out at OCI, no matter how good the school, chances of your degree having negative worth are close to 100%.


Agree, if you're gunning for Big Law and you took on serious debt, missing out at OCI is catastrophic. That said, there are plenty of people who are targeting something else entirely: small firm work, ADA/PD stuff, etc. Those people still need to go to a strong regional school and really limit debt, but I don't think you can say that (nearly) 100% of people who don't get something at OCI are boned. I understand what you're saying about bimodal salaries, and how looking at the mean is worthless. I've argued before that paying sticker anywhere, HYS included, is stupid.


Ok, that's pretty true then.

And yes, I know people who went to HYS who, less than one year out, are basically begging god to let them quit Biglaw because it sucks so bad, but they can't because of the debt. Biglaw's only fun if you can turn yourself into a machine with no existential expectations and just churn out/read through hours upon hours rote paperwork and survive on very little sleep. It's not actually a good idea for those people who actually want to make the world a better place in one way or the other or find meaning or purpose in the work they do.

BigZuck
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Re: Indiana Tech Law School

Postby BigZuck » Mon Jun 16, 2014 7:34 pm

More pond cummings plz

I almost capitalized "pond cummings." How stupid would that have looked?

Atlanticist
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Re: Indiana Tech Law School

Postby Atlanticist » Tue Jun 17, 2014 8:25 am

BigZuck wrote:More pond cummings plz

I almost capitalized "pond cummings." How stupid would that have looked?


As stupid as expecting an honest politician in Washington or a law school dean to earn under $200k.....

I can't offer up any more of the buffoonish pond cummings but I put my forensic skills to good effect last night while listlessly watching the World Cup to discover that at least one of the 7 benighted souls who made the Deans List at Indiana Tech Law School appears to have scrubbed their fb clean of any reference to ITSL and is now working as a server at their local Pizza Hut......

rwhyAn
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Re: Indiana Tech Law School

Postby rwhyAn » Tue Jun 17, 2014 8:57 am

Atlanticist wrote:
BigZuck wrote:More pond cummings plz

I almost capitalized "pond cummings." How stupid would that have looked?


As stupid as expecting an honest politician in Washington or a law school dean to earn under $200k.....

I can't offer up any more of the buffoonish pond cummings but I put my forensic skills to good effect last night while listlessly watching the World Cup to discover that at least one of the 7 benighted souls who made the Deans List at Indiana Tech Law School appears to have scrubbed their fb clean of any reference to ITSL and is now working as a server at their local Pizza Hut......


Must've been the #1 student in the class and was smart enough to get out now before spending two more years accumulating debt from this school.




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