Indiana Tech Law School

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PepperJack
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Re: Indiana Tech Law School

Postby PepperJack » Sun Jan 12, 2014 12:31 pm

In writing a paper on a related topic I discovered that the ABA actually looks directly at the number of sub-141 students a school accepts as one factor in choosing whether to make the school accredited. This is probably the only reason why you don't see many TTT or TTTT students with 135's.

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nothingtosee
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Re: Indiana Tech Law School

Postby nothingtosee » Sun Jan 12, 2014 12:53 pm

PepperJack wrote:In writing a paper on a related topic I discovered that the ABA actually looks directly at the number of sub-141 students a school accepts as one factor in choosing whether to make the school accredited. This is probably the only reason why you don't see many TTT or TTTT students with 135's.


Source?

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jk148706
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Re: Indiana Tech Law School

Postby jk148706 » Sun Jan 12, 2014 1:45 pm

nothingtosee wrote:
PepperJack wrote:In writing a paper on a related topic I discovered that the ABA actually looks directly at the number of sub-141 students a school accepts as one factor in choosing whether to make the school accredited. This is probably the only reason why you don't see many TTT or TTTT students with 135's.


Source?

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ManoftheHour
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Re: Indiana Tech Law School

Postby ManoftheHour » Sun Jan 12, 2014 9:37 pm

BentleyLittle wrote:
sighsigh wrote:Say what you will, but andré gets the ladies.

Image


Models and bottles! :lol:


I should apply to Howard. Not too late to throw in an app.

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Otunga
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Re: Indiana Tech Law School

Postby Otunga » Sun Jan 12, 2014 9:44 pm

They have 'Harvard Law...Just Kidding' shirts. Indiana Tech shirts of the same mold should come out.

taxman128
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Re: Indiana Tech Law School

Postby taxman128 » Tue Jan 14, 2014 9:00 pm

JCougar wrote:I really think this school just needs to close up shop. If the reports are true (that there's only 15 students left in the program), there's no way this school will be able to succeed. Especially with the number of applicants in further decline this year. Close up sooner rather than later. Imagine if they admit yet another class this coming fall, only to be forced to close in another year, the school will collapse before it even graduates its first class. Where are these students going to go, then? Sure, some may be able to lateral into another TTTT, but not all may be able to move away from Ft. Wayne. It's time to put this irresponsible experiment to rest.

I can appreciate what these professors are trying to do (offer a more practical education), but they're going about it in totally the wrong way. They're doing it in a highly inefficient manner on the backs of law students who will not be able to repay their debts. It's not the right time and place for another law school. Even if their intentions are in the right place, the effects of their actions are predatory.

A truly innovative law school could figure out how to offer a practical education for like $12K/year. It doesn't take fat-cat salaries and $15 million dollar buildings to train people for the rather simple skill set it requires to practice law. You could do it in a rehabbed warehouse solely with adjunct professors teaching out of Google Scholar (no need to pay $200 for a "casebook," 90% of which is already public record). And you could teach practice by offering local firms free labor for "internships."

This is what Indiana Tech hasn't yet figured out. There would be real demand for their services if they could figure out a business model that allows them to cut tuition across the board to something like $15K/year--before any scholarships are handed out. There's plenty of TTTT dumps out there that applicants would bolt from if they could find a place where they could attend for less than $50K in total debt.

That's real innovation...innovation that Mr. Alexander doesn't seem to be aware of how to accomplish.


it is my understanding that reports of only 15 remaining students are untrue. over 25 remain from the charter class.

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JCougar
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Re: Indiana Tech Law School

Postby JCougar » Tue Jan 14, 2014 9:04 pm

taxman128 wrote:it is my understanding that reports of only 15 remaining students are untrue. over 25 remain from the charter class.


It's possible, but I wouldn't be surprised to see that number dwindle to 15 once second semester starts up.

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nothingtosee
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Re: Indiana Tech Law School

Postby nothingtosee » Tue Jan 14, 2014 9:06 pm

JCougar wrote:
taxman128 wrote:it is my understanding that reports of only 15 remaining students are untrue. over 25 remain from the charter class.


It's possible, but I wouldn't be surprised to see that number dwindle to 15 once second semester starts up.


Are you assuming those imprudent enough to attend Indiana tech, after a sunken cost, will prudently rethink their commitment?

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JCougar
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Re: Indiana Tech Law School

Postby JCougar » Tue Jan 14, 2014 9:07 pm

nothingtosee wrote:
JCougar wrote:
taxman128 wrote:it is my understanding that reports of only 15 remaining students are untrue. over 25 remain from the charter class.


It's possible, but I wouldn't be surprised to see that number dwindle to 15 once second semester starts up.


Are you assuming those imprudent enough to attend Indiana tech, after a sunken cost, will prudently rethink their commitment?


Some people might after they get their grades. Cooley's drop-out rate is horrendous.

20141023
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Re: Indiana Tech Law School

Postby 20141023 » Tue Jan 14, 2014 9:35 pm

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californiauser
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Re: Indiana Tech Law School

Postby californiauser » Tue Jan 14, 2014 9:37 pm

JCougar wrote:
nothingtosee wrote:
JCougar wrote:
taxman128 wrote:it is my understanding that reports of only 15 remaining students are untrue. over 25 remain from the charter class.


It's possible, but I wouldn't be surprised to see that number dwindle to 15 once second semester starts up.


Are you assuming those imprudent enough to attend Indiana tech, after a sunken cost, will prudently rethink their commitment?


Some people might after they get their grades. Cooley's drop-out rate is horrendous.


Doesn't Cooley fail out a significant portion of its first year class as to weed-out those incapable of passing the state bar? Is there data on voluntary/non-voluntary attrition?

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cron1834
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Re: Indiana Tech Law School

Postby cron1834 » Tue Jan 14, 2014 9:41 pm

Is Indiana Tech going to have OCI? :shock:

Starfucks?

BigZuck
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Re: Indiana Tech Law School

Postby BigZuck » Tue Jan 14, 2014 9:42 pm

cron1834 wrote:Is Indiana Tech going to have OCI? :shock:

Starfucks?


Related question: Does Cooley actually have OCI?

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Indiana Tech Law School

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Tue Jan 14, 2014 9:44 pm

kappycaft1 wrote:
JCougar wrote:Some people might after they get their grades. Cooley's drop-out rate is horrendous.

You have to take something else into consideration, though: The fact that many law students know absolutely nothing about the mechanics of OCI until OCI is over.

The only reason that someone who didn't do too well would drop out is because they realized that their chances at landing a decent job are effectively 0 and that it would be a waste of both time and money to continue. Unfortunately, based on the fact that the people at Indiana Tech ended up there to begin with, my guess is that they haven't done very much (if any) research about law school, the legal market, applying for jobs, etc. Accordingly, they probably aren't aware of the fact that if they don't have a job by the end of their 1L summer, they're likely screwed.

Also, at Cooley, it would be easy to slip out unnoticed because there are like 3,000 students there. However, I have a feeling that if you're in a class / school of ~30 students, you will receive a lot more personalized attention from both your teachers and classmates, which will make it all the more difficult to say goodbye midyear. :P

I'm not remotely trying to defend Indiana Tech, but can they even have any illusions that their students are competing for the kinds of jobs you need to get by the end of 1L summer? Even at their most optimistic, they have to be thinking about the kinds of jobs that don't hire on the OCI model (local/municipal government, PD/DA, small/mid firms).

20141023
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Re: Indiana Tech Law School

Postby 20141023 » Tue Jan 14, 2014 9:50 pm

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JCougar
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Re: Indiana Tech Law School

Postby JCougar » Tue Jan 14, 2014 10:03 pm

californiauser wrote:Doesn't Cooley fail out a significant portion of its first year class as to weed-out those incapable of passing the state bar? Is there data on voluntary/non-voluntary attrition?


I do think a good portion of it is people who failed out. Not sure on the balance between that and the drop-outs.

I guess a lot of the information about the job market is passed down from the 3L class to the 1L class. At Indy Tech, that won't happen this year, so maybe their dropout rate won't be as high.

BigZuck
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Re: Indiana Tech Law School

Postby BigZuck » Tue Jan 14, 2014 10:25 pm

STARS? Jesus. Thanks kappycaft1.

20141023
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Re: Indiana Tech Law School

Postby 20141023 » Tue Jan 14, 2014 10:30 pm

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Indiana Tech Law School

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Tue Jan 14, 2014 10:39 pm

kappycaft1 wrote:Yeah, but either way, the school screws its students.

If students at Indiana Tech do online research and discover that they don't have this amazing thing called "OCI," and they approach their school about it, their school will probably just tell them, "We do things differently here in our 'experimental learning environment,' so don't worry - just keep trying hard and if you sell yourself well enough, you'll have the opportunity to interview with employers later on even though they don't come to campus. There is no need to rush to have a internship lined up before your second year even starts - after all, law school is 3 years!"

If students at Indiana Teach don't do online research and never discover that they don't have this amazing thing called "OCI," they will simply continue to pay for an education that will likely leave them un(der)employed at graduation. :|

Oh, this school is clearly a piece of crap and screws its students. I just have a knee-jerk reaction against the standard that someone who doesn't have a job by the end of their 1L summer is likely screwed, but this school sucks.

20141023
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Re: Indiana Tech Law School

Postby 20141023 » Tue Jan 14, 2014 11:02 pm

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Indiana Tech Law School

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Tue Jan 14, 2014 11:05 pm

Gotcha.

BigZuck
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Re: Indiana Tech Law School

Postby BigZuck » Tue Jan 14, 2014 11:17 pm

As far as the OCI thing goes- I'm sure that OCI is on the mind of a lot of kids at (RIGOROUS) big law feeders. But I'm not even sure that at a school with a healthyish OCI like UT that all that many 1Ls are thinking about what they will get out of OCI. I'm really doubting that Cooley kids see poor (but not failing) grades and think "Shoot, missed the OCI gravy train, better drop out now!" I would imagine a lot of them keep on keeping on, cuz perseverance and hard work and the American Dream and whatnot.

Then again I didn't even know Cooley had OCI so I'm obviously not particularly well informed and just speculating here.

20141023
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Re: Indiana Tech Law School

Postby 20141023 » Tue Jan 14, 2014 11:27 pm

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BigZuck
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Re: Indiana Tech Law School

Postby BigZuck » Tue Jan 14, 2014 11:53 pm

kappycaft1 wrote:
BigZuck wrote:As far as the OCI thing goes- I'm sure that OCI is on the mind of a lot of kids at (RIGOROUS) big law feeders. But I'm not even sure that at a school with a healthyish OCI like UT that all that many 1Ls are thinking about what they will get out of OCI. I'm really doubting that Cooley kids see poor (but not failing) grades and think "Shoot, missed the OCI gravy train, better drop out now!" I would imagine a lot of them keep on keeping on, cuz perseverance and hard work and the American Dream and whatnot.

Then again I didn't even know Cooley had OCI so I'm obviously not particularly well informed and just speculating here.

:lol:

Obviously the truckers are going to keep on truckin', but those who are able to see the writing on the wall decide to drop out sooner than later. Obligatory link to data in a kappycaft1 poast.


All I saw was "4th year JD attrition."

Who goes more than three years and THEN decides to quit?

20141023
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Re: Indiana Tech Law School

Postby 20141023 » Wed Jan 15, 2014 1:08 am

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