Philly biglaw Forum

[Easy-E]

Couldn't find any recent threads on this. Can anyone talk about Philadelphia Big Law, and assuming it exists, what schools feed the most grads into it? A bunch of older threads said Temple/Villanova, since much of Penn selects in NYC, but Temple and Villanova's numbers don't back that up. Any info would be greatly appreciated.

[Sheffield]

Philly Big Law definitely exists. Pay is generally around $135K (few firms slightly more). The knock on Philly vs NYC is that there are way fewer Philly SA opportunities. That said, Philly is arguably easier to crack than DC or Atlanta.

While anecdotal, Penn median is the leading feeder source into Philly BL.

[Easy-E]

Philly Big Law definitely exists. Pay is generally around $135K (few firms slightly more). The knock on Philly vs NYC is that there are way fewer Philly SA opportunities. That said, Philly is arguably easier to crack than DC or Atlanta.

While anecdotal, Penn median is the leading feeder source into Philly BL.

Makes sense, thanks. So it's probably only top 5-10% at Villanova/Temple that get spots, or even less considering the scarcity of them? Would their NYC peer be a school like Dozo or Fordham? Or is it not as a clear cut as that?

[Mike12188]

Makes sense, thanks. So it's probably only top 5-10% at Villanova/Temple that get spots, or even less considering the scarcity of them? Would their NYC peer be a school like Dozo or Fordham? Or is it not as a clear cut as that?

Maybe even less because RU-C also takes some spots.

[Easy-E]

Makes sense, thanks. So it's probably only top 5-10% at Villanova/Temple that get spots, or even less considering the scarcity of them? Would their NYC peer be a school like Dozo or Fordham? Or is it not as a clear cut as that?

Maybe even less because RU-C also takes some spots.

Do they still? I thought that school was burning to the ground. They offered me an unsolicited full-ride like 2 days before the semester started.

[Mike12188]

Do they still? I thought that school was burning to the ground. They offered me an unsolicited full-ride like 2 days before the semester started.

It probably is but compared to Villanova, I don't see much difference.

[Easy-E]

Do they still? I thought that school was burning to the ground. They offered me an unsolicited full-ride like 2 days before the semester started.

It probably is but compared to Villanova, I don't see much difference.

True as well. Actually, true for a ton of schools.

[Sheffield]

Philly Big Law definitely exists. Pay is generally around $135K (few firms slightly more). The knock on Philly vs NYC is that there are way fewer Philly SA opportunities. That said, Philly is arguably easier to crack than DC or Atlanta.

While anecdotal, Penn median is the leading feeder source into Philly BL.

Makes sense, thanks. So it's probably only top 5-10% at Villanova/Temple that get spots, or even less considering the scarcity of them? Would their NYC peer be a school like Dozo or Fordham? Or is it not as a clear cut as that?

What I know is anecdotal so it is hard to say. Penn aside, in checking the various Philly firm websites I see a very respectable number of Temple/Nova/Drexel associates. On the other hand, I know of those with LR who cannot get a foot into the door.

Perhaps unreliable, word is ’12 is better than ’11.

[Easy-E]

Philly Big Law definitely exists. Pay is generally around $135K (few firms slightly more). The knock on Philly vs NYC is that there are way fewer Philly SA opportunities. That said, Philly is arguably easier to crack than DC or Atlanta.

While anecdotal, Penn median is the leading feeder source into Philly BL.

Makes sense, thanks. So it's probably only top 5-10% at Villanova/Temple that get spots, or even less considering the scarcity of them? Would their NYC peer be a school like Dozo or Fordham? Or is it not as a clear cut as that?

What I know is anecdotal so it is hard to say. Penn aside, in checking the various Philly firm websites I see a very respectable number of Temple/Nova/Drexel associates. On the other hand, I know of those with LR who cannot get a foot into the door.

Perhaps unreliable, word is ’12 is better than ’11.

That's good I guess, though the bar was obviously low. Considering Temple if they offered a large enough scholly. Thanks for the input.

[HeavenWood]

Assuming Philly ties:

Penn >>>>> Temple/Villanova > Rutgers >>> Drexel/Widener

Do not, I repeat do NOT go to any school other than Penn if Philly big-law-or-bust (and even at Penn, that has the potential to blow up in your face, albeit if you get shut out of Philly, NYC will probably show you love).

[stressed2010]

Speaking only of Temple but OCI pretty much was limited to the top 5%-10% of the class and Law Review. Some people in the top 15% and on secondary journals got jobs but the number wasn't large (maybe 3). That being said there are some people on law review and in the top of their class (top 10%) who didn't end up with a summer associate position...one can imagine how peeved one would be if this were his/her plight! In terms of screener interviews, it seemed firms dipped down to the top 20% but those folks were left out of the callback stage. If you want big law from Temple I'd say the lowest you can go is top 5% to be sure you'll end up with something. As for the rest of the class the career services office has suggested "networking" and then inundating small firms with resumes and cover letters starting in January/February. No idea of the success rate given the fact that this hasn't happened yet. However, something like 50% of the class is employed at graduation so I'm assuming some people are successful. Hope this helps in making your decision. Perhaps OCI will be more successful for future classes. From what I've gathered however this will be the norm for the near future. Firms that used to take 20 summer associates now take between 8-10. This is the new normal. OCI isn't a sure bet even for those with respectable grades (say top 20% and up). Again no idea if that would have guaranteed or at least given you a shot pre-this economy. Perhaps those who went through OCI pre-2008/2009 can chime in.

[HeavenWood]

Speaking only of Temple but OCI pretty much was limited to the top 5%-10% of the class and Law Review. Some people in the top 15% and on secondary journals got jobs but the number wasn't large (maybe 3). That being said there are some people on law review and in the top of their class (top 10%) who didn't end up with a summer associate position...one can imagine how peeved one would be if this were his/her plight! In terms of screener interviews, it seemed firms dipped down to the top 20% but those folks were left out of the callback stage. If you want big law from Temple I'd say the lowest you can go is top 5% to be sure you'll end up with something. As for the rest of the class the career services office has suggested "networking" and then inundating small firms with resumes and cover letters starting in January/February. No idea of the success rate given the fact that this hasn't happened yet. However, something like 50% of the class is employed at graduation so I'm assuming some people are successful. Hope this helps in making your decision. Perhaps OCI will be more successful for future classes. From what I've gathered however this will be the norm for the near future. Firms that used to take 20 summer associates now take between 8-10. This is the new normal. OCI isn't a sure bet even for those with respectable grades (say top 20% and up). Again no idea if that would have guaranteed or at least given you a shot pre-this economy. Perhaps those who went through OCI pre-2008/2009 can chime in.

While we definitely won't be seeing pre-ITE classes anymore, I do think this year was unusually bad. I think a compromise between last year and this year will eventually be the settled norm.

[TopTopham]

I spent several years as a paralegal at a Philly biglaw firm. (I left in August to start law school.) When I started, the firm was hiring SAs mostly from the T14, with a smattering from other T30s and the local schools (and yes, that even includes Drexel, Widener and RU-C.) By the time I left, the summer class was EXCLUSIVELY from the T14.

I think one of the biggest casualties of the poor hiring environment is the ability of local schools to send their very top students to Biglaw. Not saying it can't be done, but it's now very very hard.

E.g., according to the ABA figures, Drexel sent 11 2010 grads to 100+ firms, but only 6 in 2011.

Shoot for Penn and think really hard before grabbing the money at one of the local lesser schools.

[Aristone]

I currently work at one of the large firms in Philly and have seen a trend around town of tightening up on the summer associate classes. We have given callbacks to a decent amount of Philadelphia-related schools (Penn and then Temple seems to have the largest), a few T30 super-regionals (Fordham, GW, BU and BC) and the Top 14. That being said, the summer associate classes are definitely small and would require pretty spectacular grades from Temple, Villanova, RU-C, Drexel and so forth. Think along the lines of top 5% and LR as to have a goos shot at landing in one of the SA positions without too much worry. I would still be stressed given this economy.

If you have any specific questions regarding Philly biglaw other than grades needed, feel free to ask...or shoot me a PM. Goodluck on your decision.