Business Classes without a Joint Degree?

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moneyball026
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Business Classes without a Joint Degree?

Postby moneyball026 » Mon Sep 24, 2012 2:37 pm

Hello,

I have a 3.8 and 170, looking at T-14. I am interested in going to a school that offers me the ability to take classes at the MBA level without enrolling in a JD/MBA program. Is this possible, particularly at Penn or NYU?

The reason I ask is because I may want to go into consulting after graduating. I have an interest in studying and practicing law, which is why I do not want to do an MBA, but I have a business background and consulting at MBB or a slightly lower tier firm is also something that peaks my interest. Where should I look to best accomplish this, or is a JD/MBA really worth going for in my case?

THANKS!!!

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radar714
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Re: Business Classes without a Joint Degree?

Postby radar714 » Mon Sep 24, 2012 6:36 pm

I had the exact same question as you a few months ago so I did a little research into it and found out the following:

1. Most Law Schools will allow you to enroll in a predetermined # of classes at their other graduate schools without being enrolled in a joint program. The range varies (UChicago is 4 classes, Northwestern is 2, for example)

2. Many top consulting firms hire out of law school (part of the reason not many JDs go into consulting is self-selection...most people don't go into law school with the attitude that they want to work in consulting).

3. Courses in business are not required to go into consulting, as many of the courses that you would expect to take in business school are available in law school (for instance, Accounting for Lawyers, Corporations/Taxation, Mergers/Acquisitions, etc).

4. There are people that get hired as JDs by consulting firms, but they tend to be rare because the interviewing process is VERY different. I'm sure you've heard of the dreaded case interview if you're interested in consulting, and preparing for those interviews is a very long process, one for which many 1L/2L/3Ls don't have the time to commit 100% of their energy.

TL;DR: You don't need a JD/MBA to get hired in consulting, as law grads do get hired, although rarely. A lot of schools allow you to take classes in the other graduate schools, but you're limited in the # you can take.

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moneyball026
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Re: Business Classes without a Joint Degree?

Postby moneyball026 » Tue Sep 25, 2012 8:26 pm

Thanks for getting back to me! I'm curious what you ended up choosing as your path. Also, I'm looking into a "certificate" at a place like Wharton where you take 15 credits and get certified, though it obviously carries much less weight than does an MBA. Everything you said was along the lines of what I was thinking, but the way you said it put it all into a much clearer perspective. Thanks again!

09042014
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Re: Business Classes without a Joint Degree?

Postby 09042014 » Tue Sep 25, 2012 8:44 pm

Northwestern lets you take a bunch. Tons are cross listed and you can take those unlimited, and you can take pure Kellogg classes (I think either 2 or 4 I forget).

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radar714
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Re: Business Classes without a Joint Degree?

Postby radar714 » Wed Sep 26, 2012 1:33 pm

moneyball026 wrote:Thanks for getting back to me! I'm curious what you ended up choosing as your path. Also, I'm looking into a "certificate" at a place like Wharton where you take 15 credits and get certified, though it obviously carries much less weight than does an MBA. Everything you said was along the lines of what I was thinking, but the way you said it put it all into a much clearer perspective. Thanks again!


I'm still a 0L so no decisions yet, but I plan on taking the GMAT after I retake the october LSAT and will apply to the MBA school at whatever law school I end up attending, just to keep my options open (although I would only do that if the MBA program was top 25). I worry that my lack of significant work experience will impact my acceptability into an MBA program so I think I will probably end up just taking a lot of relevant courses both in the law school (aka cross-listed ones) as well as 2-4 exclusively in the business school (classes more like Managerial Leadership, fundamentals of finance, etc). Personally, I would prefer to take any of the cross-listed classes over taking ones in an MBA program, but I think some courses (like finance/leadership) would be better taught in the business school because they are likely to give you a more holistic understanding of the topic, rather than just presenting the material through the lens of the law.

Hope this helps!

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moneyball026
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Re: Business Classes without a Joint Degree?

Postby moneyball026 » Wed Sep 26, 2012 3:11 pm

I'm still a 0L so no decisions yet, but I plan on taking the GMAT after I retake the october LSAT and will apply to the MBA school at whatever law school I end up attending, just to keep my options open (although I would only do that if the MBA program was top 25). I worry that my lack of significant work experience will impact my acceptability into an MBA program so I think I will probably end up just taking a lot of relevant courses both in the law school (aka cross-listed ones) as well as 2-4 exclusively in the business school (classes more like Managerial Leadership, fundamentals of finance, etc). Personally, I would prefer to take any of the cross-listed classes over taking ones in an MBA program, but I think some courses (like finance/leadership) would be better taught in the business school because they are likely to give you a more holistic understanding of the topic, rather than just presenting the material through the lens of the law.

Hope this helps!


Where are you looking to apply? I'm debating whether to go for it all with just the law degree at T-14 like Penn (plus those extra classes), or whether I should do a dual degree at a more manageable school like Temple. Do you think a consulting company would prefer a law degree from a T-14 as opposed to a dual degree from a weaker school? I'm not talking MBB here just general, upper level consulting firms.

I hope it all works out for you. Good luck and thanks again!

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radar714
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Re: Business Classes without a Joint Degree?

Postby radar714 » Wed Sep 26, 2012 5:58 pm

moneyball026 wrote:
stuff


Where are you looking to apply? I'm debating whether to go for it all with just the law degree at T-14 like Penn (plus those extra classes), or whether I should do a dual degree at a more manageable school like Temple. Do you think a consulting company would prefer a law degree from a T-14 as opposed to a dual degree from a weaker school? I'm not talking MBB here just general, upper level consulting firms.

I hope it all works out for you. Good luck and thanks again!


Great question. I have a few friends that work for consulting firms (Bain, Deloitte, CAST, McKinsey) and from what I understand, consulting firms generally don't really care what your specific "degree" is (at least in the case of undergrad). For instance, I have friends that have been hired as philosophy majors, and others hired as business majors. I think what this reveals about consulting firms is that they really don't care what your "concentration" is...but rather they want to see if you have unparalleled analytical reasoning skills.

Take my advice with a grain of salt because I don't have actual first hand experience working in consulting (all my knowledge has come from research/interviews/conversations with those in the industry). However, I would honestly probably recommend that you target the BEST law school possible, and THEN apply to the MBA program wherever that is. I don't think many consulting firms, whether its BCG or CAST, are going to prefer someone that went to, for example, Emory JD/MBA over a Penn JD.

Additionally, you get a slight application boost when you apply to an MBA program if you are already enrolled at that institution's JD program. I remember reading somewhere that University of Chicago Boothe School of Business, for instance, had a ~20% acceptance rate for its MBA program, but ~40% acceptance for JD students enrolled @ the school of law. Subsequently, I wouldn't look into applying as a JD/MBA applicant outright, but rather focus on Law school and then look into the MBA programs once you have been accepted to a few schools. I believe the only schools that require you to apply simultaneously to the JD/MBA are Northwestern and Penn because they are both accelerated programs (I would call their offices though to confirm though).

As for me, my #'s unfortunately aren't as good as yours (3.6/162, PTing 170+ right now for retake so should get somewhere around 168-172). My approach is to get into the best law school possible and then see what happens with the MBA.

TL;DR - Apply to the best law schools, zero in on taking classes that give you a firm understanding of business concepts and develop your analytical mind, and then if you want, apply to that school's MBA program.

Good resource: http://student.chicagobooth.edu/group/jdmba/blog.htm




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