National Jurist - 2011 grads with jobs at firms with 100+

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Aristone
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National Jurist - 2011 grads with jobs at firms with 100+

Postby Aristone » Fri Sep 14, 2012 8:44 pm

This is probably old news, but just in case...I thought I'd post for you guys. Below is the top 30 or so for law schools that placed the most 2011 graduates into firms with 100+ attorneys:

School: Percentage of Class of 2011 at 100+ Attorney Firms

Columbia University: 61.4
University of Pennsylvania: 58.0
Northwestern University: 53.3
Stanford University: 49.5
Harvard University: 48.7
Duke University: 44.9
University of Chicago: 44.8
New York University: 43.1
University of California - Berkeley: 41.6
Cornell University: 38.8
University of Virginia: 37.1
University of Southern California: 34.3
University of Michigan: 34
Georgetown University: 33.5
Yale University: 33.2
Vanderbilt University: 30.3
Boston College: 26
Fordham University: 24.8
University of California - LA: 23.5
University of Texas: 23
University of Notre Dame: 20
George Washington University: 19.9
Boston University: 19.8
Emory University: 18.7
Washington University - STL: 17.7
Ohio State University: 14.3
Southern Methodist University: 14
Indiana University - Bloomington: 13.8
University of Illinois: 13.7
University of Washington: 13.2
University of North Carolina: 13

I figured this would be helpful to students applying this fall. Once again, sorry if this is a repeat...but I think being redundant is better than not having the information at all.

The list goes all the way to the University of Arizona at 6.3%. The link is as follows: http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/cypress ... dex.php#/6

Hope it's useful.

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iMisto
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Re: National Jurist - 2011 grads with jobs at firms with 100+

Postby iMisto » Fri Sep 14, 2012 10:02 pm

Could you post the stats for the previous year as well? To see what the difference is? I'm curious as to how much of a variance there is from year to year.

Regardless, it's a very sobering set of numbers.

Thank you!

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dingbat
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Re: National Jurist - 2011 grads with jobs at firms with 100+

Postby dingbat » Fri Sep 14, 2012 11:06 pm

iMisto wrote:Could you post the stats for the previous year as well? To see what the difference is? I'm curious as to how much of a variance there is from year to year.

Regardless, it's a very sobering set of numbers.

Thank you!

it only paints an incomplete picture. How many more didn't want to work biglaw?
this is far more useful

full credit

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iMisto
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Re: National Jurist - 2011 grads with jobs at firms with 100+

Postby iMisto » Sat Sep 15, 2012 8:19 am

dingbat wrote:
iMisto wrote:Could you post the stats for the previous year as well? To see what the difference is? I'm curious as to how much of a variance there is from year to year.

Regardless, it's a very sobering set of numbers.

Thank you!

it only paints an incomplete picture. How many more didn't want to work biglaw?
this is far more useful

full credit


How do I get more of a complete picture? TLS wisdom says what?

Can anybody explain the dip for Cornell in 2011 when compared to 2010? I mean, 2010 has Cornell out-placing... everybody? I understand it has a smaller class, so it may experience large swings based on a small group of students, but that's a pretty significant swing, no?

I'm curious because I'm very much interested in attending Cornell. If anybody has some advice, I'd be glad to hear it! Thank you.

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dingbat
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Re: National Jurist - 2011 grads with jobs at firms with 100+

Postby dingbat » Sat Sep 15, 2012 9:14 am

iMisto wrote:
dingbat wrote:it only paints an incomplete picture. How many more didn't want to work biglaw?
this is far more useful

full credit


How do I get more of a complete picture? TLS wisdom says what?

Can anybody explain the dip for Cornell in 2011 when compared to 2010? I mean, 2010 has Cornell out-placing... everybody? I understand it has a smaller class, so it may experience large swings based on a small group of students, but that's a pretty significant swing, no?

I'm curious because I'm very much interested in attending Cornell. If anybody has some advice, I'd be glad to hear it! Thank you.

Generally speaking, the assumption is that anyone who does a federal clerkship could have gotten biglaw, so you should look at the 250+/Fed and 100+/Fed tabs, which add the number of people doing a federal clerkship to those going to biglaw firms of 250+ lawyers (more conservative) or 100+ lawyers (more expansive view of biglaw).

Conventional wisdom is to ignore corporate or government employment, because of the indeterminate nature thereof (corporate includes starbucks baristas, for example), although at the top schools (HYS in particular) this isn't fair as this includes consulting jobs, attorney general's office, etc. For similar reasons, academia and public interest are often not included, which makes sense for most schools, but particularly Yale and to a lesser extent Harvard underperform for this reason - practically speaking, virtually anyone who goes to Yale could probably have gotten biglaw, but many take prestigious teaching positions, public interest jobs, or whatever they feel like (thanks to the most generous LRAP in existence)

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Bronte
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Re: National Jurist - 2011 grads with jobs at firms with 100+

Postby Bronte » Sat Sep 15, 2012 10:14 am

iMisto wrote:
dingbat wrote:it only paints an incomplete picture. How many more didn't want to work biglaw?
this is far more useful

full credit


How do I get more of a complete picture?


I think maybe you didn't see that he linked you to the more complete picture?

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iMisto
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Re: National Jurist - 2011 grads with jobs at firms with 100+

Postby iMisto » Sat Sep 15, 2012 10:34 am

Bronte wrote:
iMisto wrote:
dingbat wrote:it only paints an incomplete picture. How many more didn't want to work biglaw?
this is far more useful

full credit


How do I get more of a complete picture?


I think maybe you didn't see that he linked you to the more complete picture?


Actually I did. I interpreted his "it only paints an incomplete picture" as referring to both years of data - as in, maybe I need even more info to get a better understanding.

Thanks for your help. :wink:

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dingbat
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Re: National Jurist - 2011 grads with jobs at firms with 100+

Postby dingbat » Sat Sep 15, 2012 10:36 am

iMisto wrote:Actually I did. I interpreted his "it only paints an incomplete picture" as referring to both years of data - as in, maybe I need ever more info to get a better understanding.

Thanks for your help. :wink:

generally speaking, don't worry too much about changes from year to year

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2014
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Re: National Jurist - 2011 grads with jobs at firms with 100+

Postby 2014 » Sat Sep 15, 2012 10:43 am

iMisto wrote:
dingbat wrote:
iMisto wrote:Could you post the stats for the previous year as well? To see what the difference is? I'm curious as to how much of a variance there is from year to year.

Regardless, it's a very sobering set of numbers.

Thank you!

it only paints an incomplete picture. How many more didn't want to work biglaw?
this is far more useful

full credit


How do I get more of a complete picture? TLS wisdom says what?

Can anybody explain the dip for Cornell in 2011 when compared to 2010? I mean, 2010 has Cornell out-placing... everybody? I understand it has a smaller class, so it may experience large swings based on a small group of students, but that's a pretty significant swing, no?

I'm curious because I'm very much interested in attending Cornell. If anybody has some advice, I'd be glad to hear it! Thank you.

I'll echo the general TLS explanation about it. I don't go to Cornell nor did I graduate in 2010 so take this as you will.

c/o 2010 did OCI in 2008 when shit was beginning to hit the fan economy wise. Schools that traditionally have success in other markets like Chicago, Atlanta, etc saw firms in those areas cut class sizes and/or no offer or defer the SAs they did have. Cornell, which is a small school and almost exclusively places into NYC happened to be in a great situation where its one real market was the only one that had the stability to weather the storm. So while many of the other top schools had people gunning for whatever markets with whatever ties, the people who bid on the cities struggling the most got fucked. In subsequent years people figured that out pretty quick and started to bid NYC more aggressively to secure an offer and now these firms with the leverage of being able to get median or above students from better schools don't necessarily line up to hire bottom 30%ers from Cornell.

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iMisto
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Re: National Jurist - 2011 grads with jobs at firms with 100+

Postby iMisto » Sat Sep 15, 2012 10:46 am

2014 wrote:
iMisto wrote:
dingbat wrote:
iMisto wrote:Could you post the stats for the previous year as well? To see what the difference is? I'm curious as to how much of a variance there is from year to year.

Regardless, it's a very sobering set of numbers.

Thank you!

it only paints an incomplete picture. How many more didn't want to work biglaw?
this is far more useful

full credit


How do I get more of a complete picture? TLS wisdom says what?

Can anybody explain the dip for Cornell in 2011 when compared to 2010? I mean, 2010 has Cornell out-placing... everybody? I understand it has a smaller class, so it may experience large swings based on a small group of students, but that's a pretty significant swing, no?

I'm curious because I'm very much interested in attending Cornell. If anybody has some advice, I'd be glad to hear it! Thank you.

I'll echo the general TLS explanation about it. I don't go to Cornell nor did I graduate in 2010 so take this as you will.

c/o 2010 did OCI in 2008 when shit was beginning to hit the fan economy wise. Schools that traditionally have success in other markets like Chicago, Atlanta, etc saw firms in those areas cut class sizes and/or no offer or defer the SAs they did have. Cornell, which is a small school and almost exclusively places into NYC happened to be in a great situation where its one real market was the only one that had the stability to weather the storm. So while many of the other top schools had people gunning for whatever markets with whatever ties, the people who bid on the cities struggling the most got fucked. In subsequent years people figured that out pretty quick and started to bid NYC more aggressively to secure an offer and now these firms with the leverage of being able to get median or above students from better schools don't necessarily line up to hire bottom 30%ers from Cornell.


Oh. That's mildly depressing.

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dingbat
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Re: National Jurist - 2011 grads with jobs at firms with 100+

Postby dingbat » Sat Sep 15, 2012 10:55 am

iMisto wrote:
2014 wrote: firms with the leverage of being able to get median or above students from better schools don't necessarily line up to hire bottom 30%ers from Cornell.[/b]


Oh. That's mildly depressing.

moral of the story: don't be in the bottom 30%

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UnamSanctam
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Re: National Jurist - 2011 grads with jobs at firms with 100+

Postby UnamSanctam » Sat Sep 15, 2012 10:59 am

Michigan :|

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dingbat
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Re: National Jurist - 2011 grads with jobs at firms with 100+

Postby dingbat » Sat Sep 15, 2012 11:08 am

UnamSanctam wrote:Michigan :|

dingbat wrote:moral of the story: don't be in the bottom 30%

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iMisto
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Re: National Jurist - 2011 grads with jobs at firms with 100+

Postby iMisto » Sat Sep 15, 2012 12:41 pm

dingbat wrote:
UnamSanctam wrote:Michigan :|

dingbat wrote:moral of the story: don't be in the bottom 30%


I was very interested in Michigan for a little bit. Even thought of EDing there at one point.. but, as this idea of not having a major market to feed into crept up, I ran the other direction. *gulp*

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Bronte
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Re: National Jurist - 2011 grads with jobs at firms with 100+

Postby Bronte » Sat Sep 15, 2012 1:04 pm

iMisto wrote:
dingbat wrote:
UnamSanctam wrote:Michigan :|

dingbat wrote:moral of the story: don't be in the bottom 30%


I was very interested in Michigan for a little bit. Even thought of EDing there at one point.. but, as this idea of not having a major market to feed into crept up, I ran the other direction. *gulp*


Lol, it's nonsense. Every year 0Ls get ideas based on year to year swings that are not statistically significant.

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dingbat
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Re: National Jurist - 2011 grads with jobs at firms with 100+

Postby dingbat » Sat Sep 15, 2012 2:29 pm

Bronte wrote: Every year 0Ls get ideas based on year to year swings that are not statistically significant.
unless you're the statistic...

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Aberzombie1892
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Re: National Jurist - 2011 grads with jobs at firms with 100+

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Sat Sep 15, 2012 3:03 pm

dingbat wrote:
Bronte wrote: Every year 0Ls get ideas based on year to year swings that are not statistically significant.
unless you're the statistic...


This. Michigan is a fine school, but data (historical and current) indicates that Penn and Northwestern are preferable.

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Bronte
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Re: National Jurist - 2011 grads with jobs at firms with 100+

Postby Bronte » Sat Sep 15, 2012 5:58 pm

Aberzombie1892 wrote:
dingbat wrote:
Bronte wrote: Every year 0Ls get ideas based on year to year swings that are not statistically significant.
unless you're the statistic...


This. Michigan is a fine school, but data (historical and current) indicates that Penn and Northwestern are preferable.


The report before last year--when a bunch of other 0Ls were on this site doing the same things you guys are--Michigan was sixth on the list. http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... hbxlogin=1. The variations from year to year are wild. It's not a good way to make a decision.

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Bronte
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Re: National Jurist - 2011 grads with jobs at firms with 100+

Postby Bronte » Sat Sep 15, 2012 6:19 pm

dingbat wrote:
Bronte wrote: Every year 0Ls get ideas based on year to year swings that are not statistically significant.
unless you're the statistic...


"Statistically insignificant" means that the data are not predictive of what will happen next time. I think you'll see that, understanding what that means, your response doesn't make any sense.

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dingbat
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Re: National Jurist - 2011 grads with jobs at firms with 100+

Postby dingbat » Sat Sep 15, 2012 6:20 pm

I'm not gonna look it up, but there's been a lot of analysis that basically splits the schools into tiers:
1) HYS (Y has unusual placement)
2) CCN (just about every year there's another T14 school that outperforms one or more of these, but just about every year these three are in the top 6)
3) The rest of the T14 (Georgetown being the weakest)
4) Vandy, UCLA, USC, UT (very good placement, but not T14)
5) BU/BC/Fordham/GW (generally round out the top 20 in terms of placement power)
6) ND/UIUC/WUSTL/Emory pulling up the rear
7) More or less, the rest of the T1
8) regional schools in small markets (little/no competition from other schools)
9) everyone else

However, the above doesn't take geographic considerations into account. Outside of the T14, you shouldn't consider going to a school that's not at the very least in the general geographic region, if not the specific market, where you want to end up (Vanderbilt for anywhere in the south), although if you want to work in NYC, there's more leeway (tiers 4 and 5 can get you there, otherwise you should be at least top 10%)

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dingbat
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Re: National Jurist - 2011 grads with jobs at firms with 100+

Postby dingbat » Sat Sep 15, 2012 6:21 pm

Bronte wrote:
dingbat wrote:
Bronte wrote: Every year 0Ls get ideas based on year to year swings that are not statistically significant.
unless you're the statistic...


"Statistically insignificant" means that the data are not predictive of what will happen next time. I think you'll see that, understanding what that means, your response doesn't make any sense.

I know what it means. I agree that the swings are not statistically significant. It just sucks for those who got fucked during a down year

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UnamSanctam
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Re: National Jurist - 2011 grads with jobs at firms with 100+

Postby UnamSanctam » Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:47 pm

iMisto wrote:
dingbat wrote:
UnamSanctam wrote:Michigan :|

dingbat wrote:moral of the story: don't be in the bottom 30%


I was very interested in Michigan for a little bit. Even thought of EDing there at one point.. but, as this idea of not having a major market to feed into crept up, I ran the other direction. *gulp*


Don't get me wrong. I ED'd to Michigan and don't regret it for a second.




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