BruceWayne wrote: bhan87 wrote:
BruceWayne wrote:How was this poster able to get this without even reading the whole thread, but Bhan and kwais are struggling to comprehend it and are arguing against strawmen positions?
BW, if you ever wonder why people naturally get irritated talking to you, just read through this thread. Your pseudo attempts at refereeing and attempts to take the high ground are just baffling... I can only hope that you don't act this way wherever you choose to work. Just in case your parents never taught you this when you were a kid, trying to talk down someone by referring to them in the third person is a sign of childish pettiness and only hurts your credibility. In fact, this works against your attempt to take the high ground because it's clearly evident that your only purpose to responding to these threads is to make sure your internet pride is fulfilled, not actually giving out helpful information.
And no, we didn't fail to comprehend this "argument" or "opinion" that you continually try to portray as a fact. You seem to get infuriated that people argue that 150k is not worth the intagible (prestige?) benefit of an HYS degree. Our point is that 150k actually DOES matter to some people, especially when (as has been pointed out multiple times here) people at HYS strike out each year. Even from a purely rational standpoint, the slight bump you get during recruiting (negligible for NYC biglaw hiring in my opinion), may not be worth paying an extra 150k for. I posted earlier associate #s for HLS vs. CLS at some firms (I recommend looking into more), which shows there are similar numbers of associates from each school, but at some firms there is trend towards more HLS (i.e. WLRK). To those considering both schools take it as you will, but I don't think your employment chances are hurt that much by coming to CLS, and you can use 150k for loads of other valuable things
(saving for a home for instance).
*Flame shield up for another petty BW attack*
The bolded is the only important part of what you said so I'm responding to it. However, I'll say this, I'm not "attempting to play referee "or whatever the hell you're talking about I just don't give a shit about conventional TLS mantra like Columbia is basically the same as HYS, 85 percent of their students have big firm jobs, and the only job prospects that matter are those involving NYC firm jobs. I care about one thing--what is actually true. So I'm not going to go along with whatever bullshit that's just repeated but isn't backed up by anything. For one, the whole thing about HYS not giving out huge need based grants is straight bullshit. And unlike those arguing to the contrary, I actually posted factual data showing that (see my last post with lsac info for who gets need based aid etc.).
Response to the bolded: Why in the world would someone with the option of going to HYS vs. Columbia only consider the difference in NYC job prospects? That's insane. I'm glad you are making the argument in this manner because it's the same thing that Kwais did. If you take the very odd approach of evaluating HYS vs. Columbia based on the only area where the two schools are comparable, of course it starts to look like a minor difference between the two schools. But that's absolutely absurd. HYS will give someone a minor bump over Columbia for a NYC firm job--this has been repeated ad nauseam by a few Columbia 1Ls in this thread and yourself. No one is disputing that. But the bump that you get from a hiring standpoint for ALL other markets is huge. Further, you get a huge bump in clerkship prospects. If you want a firm job in a non NYC market from HYS you can probably get it in addition to being able to get a NYC firm job. If you go to Columbia and get below the median GPA, you will be lucky to get a firm job in NYC--let alone one in DC, Texas, Chicago etc. That's a big damn difference although you are trying to portray it as if it's not.
Now you're finally talking some sense, but I don't think it really contributes any new perspectives (0Ls with the choice, go to HYS if you want to clerk / go into academia...). I'll rephrase my post to disclaim that I'm referring to NYC biglaw hiring. I agree HYS would have the advantage for certain non-NYC markets. SLS for CA of course is a huge one. I doubt that HLS has much of edge in that market over CLS.
Chicago, you'd be better of going to UChicago over CLS making it a somewhat moot point, but if you were forced to choose between HYS vs. CLS I guess
HYS probably has a clear edge (looking at associate #s at Kirkland Chicago and MWE Chicago is one indicator)
D.C. is a bad example as that market is so grade dependent that you can't really count on a bump from HYS to get you into those firms. At that point, I think the rationale shifts from say (warning: arbitrary numbers) need to make top 20% vs top 10% to outside shot either way, might as well go with the lower debt risk. However, I guess it depends on how much you value that added edge.
Regarding your comment about below median students, I disagree that a below median CLS student will be at a severe
disadvantage at OCI compared to an HYS student with straight Ps (or however many Hs firms use as their soft cutoff line for their recruitment purposes). Having gone through OCI (and also talking to dozens of students from both
CLS and HLS), it seems a below median student at either school (in the case of HLS, a student with mostly Ps) is not going to get a boost from having one name over the other. What matters infinitely more in that situation is personality and ability to sell yourself during the screener / callback.