NYU v Penn

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bobbyflayed
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NYU v Penn

Postby bobbyflayed » Sun Sep 02, 2012 6:29 pm

I'm currently deciding between EDing NYU or Penn (3.62/171). I'm originally from California and, barring no job prospects in California, I'd like to avoid working on the East Coast. As with most people, I'm aiming for big law.

It seems to me that I'd be close to a lock at Penn with ED (given lsn info) but not a lock at NYU. Furthermore, EDing at NYU may entail not getting into either.

Finally, living in Manhattan seems to be significantly more expensive than Philly. Is there any benefit to living in NY outside of the obvious (not living in philly) that would be worth 30k or more in living expenses?

looks like Penn places better than NYU?

http://www.lawschooltransparency.com/2011/03/class-of-2010-nlj-250-statistics/

kaiser
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Re: NYU v Penn

Postby kaiser » Sun Sep 02, 2012 6:43 pm

COL isn't necessarily higher at NYU. Live in Jersey City or Hoboken, do the 30 minute commute, and its probably even cheaper than Philly COL. Those who want cheaper COL around Manhattan/NYU area can certainly find it if they are flexible.

bobbyflayed
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Re: NYU v Penn

Postby bobbyflayed » Sun Sep 02, 2012 6:47 pm

Well one of the big positives for me would be living in Manhattan given that the schools placement numbers are the same. I would not live outside of Manhattan if I went to NYU.

kaiser
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Re: NYU v Penn

Postby kaiser » Sun Sep 02, 2012 6:48 pm

bobbyflayed wrote:Well one of the big positives for me would be living in Manhattan given that the schools placement numbers are the same. I would not live outside of Manhattan if I went to NYU.


Well, then you get the highest COL. Again, reasonable COL only comes from flexibility in the context of NYC. The areas around NYU are obviously very expensive. Though I'd imagine you can share an apt with other students in one of the cheaper areas of Manhattan. But if you do that, you are probably further, timewise, from the school than you would be if you lived outside Manhattan, whether in Brooklyn or Jersey City.

bobbyflayed
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Re: NYU v Penn

Postby bobbyflayed » Sun Sep 02, 2012 6:51 pm

kaiser wrote:
bobbyflayed wrote:Well one of the big positives for me would be living in Manhattan given that the schools placement numbers are the same. I would not live outside of Manhattan if I went to NYU.


Well, then you get the highest COL. Again, reasonable COL only comes from flexibility in the context of NYC.


My original question was whether or not there were benefits to going to NYU over Penn outside of living in Manhattan given that the schools' placement numbers were pretty equal.

I know that living in Manhattan would have a higher COL, I would prefer to live in Manhattan over Philly though and was wondering if there were other benefits that may justify a higher COL.

kaiser
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Re: NYU v Penn

Postby kaiser » Sun Sep 02, 2012 6:53 pm

bobbyflayed wrote:
kaiser wrote:
bobbyflayed wrote:Well one of the big positives for me would be living in Manhattan given that the schools placement numbers are the same. I would not live outside of Manhattan if I went to NYU.


Well, then you get the highest COL. Again, reasonable COL only comes from flexibility in the context of NYC.


My original question was whether or not there were benefits to going to NYU over Penn outside of living in Manhattan given that the schools' placement numbers were pretty equal.

I know that living in Manhattan would have a higher COL, I would prefer to live in Manhattan over Philly though and was wondering if there were other benefits that may justify a higher COL.


NYU places more thoroughly into the highest-prestige firms, almost all of which are headquartered in NY. Sure, Penn places very well into the V100 as a whole, but you will find much more NYU representation in the top tier of firms. Take a look at the websites of pretty much any NYC-based V25 firm or office to confirm this. Plus, keep in mind that NYU is among the most PI-focused schools, in that a sizeable chunk of students decide to go the PI route, thus taking them out of the pool of students who go into large Vault firms. Sheer % in NLJ250 firms doesn't really paint a complete picture.
Last edited by kaiser on Sun Sep 02, 2012 6:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

opX
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Re: NYU v Penn

Postby opX » Sun Sep 02, 2012 6:53 pm

if you want NYC Big law, id say NYU. If you are more open to other geographic areas for Big Law then Penn might make more sense.

COL is important etc etc - but your primary concern should be maximizing your career prospects for the type of job that you want. imo, commit all resources to that goal.
Last edited by opX on Sun Sep 02, 2012 6:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Blessedassurance
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Re: NYU v Penn

Postby Blessedassurance » Sun Sep 02, 2012 6:54 pm

Why don't you apply RD to both?

bobbyflayed
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Re: NYU v Penn

Postby bobbyflayed » Sun Sep 02, 2012 6:56 pm

kaiser wrote:
bobbyflayed wrote:
kaiser wrote:
bobbyflayed wrote:Well one of the big positives for me would be living in Manhattan given that the schools placement numbers are the same. I would not live outside of Manhattan if I went to NYU.


Well, then you get the highest COL. Again, reasonable COL only comes from flexibility in the context of NYC.


My original question was whether or not there were benefits to going to NYU over Penn outside of living in Manhattan given that the schools' placement numbers were pretty equal.

I know that living in Manhattan would have a higher COL, I would prefer to live in Manhattan over Philly though and was wondering if there were other benefits that may justify a higher COL.


NYU places more thoroughly into the highest-prestige firms, almost all of which are headquartered in NY. Sure, Penn places very well into the V100 as a whole, but you will find much more NYU representation in the top tier of firms. Take a look at the websites of pretty much any NYC-based V25 firm or office to confirm this. Plus, keep in mind that NYU is among the most PI-focused schools, in that a sizeable chunk of students decide to go the PI route, thus taking them out of the pool of students who go into large Vault firms. Sheer % in NLJ250 firms doesn't really paint a complete picture.


Thank you for this info. I'm not inclined towards NYU based V25 firms, I honestly don't care what rank on vault the firm is if they pay me the same =) but the PI focus of NYU may help me out. Do you know what percentage of the students go into PI?

Does NYU's larger class affect job prospects compared to Penn's?

bobbyflayed
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Re: NYU v Penn

Postby bobbyflayed » Sun Sep 02, 2012 6:57 pm

Blessedassurance wrote:Why don't you apply RD to both?


Looks like I'm 50/50 on both RD. I don't want the option of not getting into either.

opX
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Re: NYU v Penn

Postby opX » Sun Sep 02, 2012 6:57 pm

remember prestige can have significant career implications. Its not just ego behind prestige. Credibility and name matters and will follow you forever.

bobbyflayed
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Re: NYU v Penn

Postby bobbyflayed » Sun Sep 02, 2012 6:58 pm

opX wrote:remember prestige can have significant career implications. Its not just ego behind prestige. Credibility and name matters and will follow you forever.


which school are you referring to? NYU is higher ranked but Penn is well known in business?

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Blessedassurance
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Re: NYU v Penn

Postby Blessedassurance » Sun Sep 02, 2012 6:59 pm

bobbyflayed wrote:Looks like I'm 50/50 on both RD. I don't want the option of not getting into either.


You'll get into one, they can't YP you. Write a good why Penn essay etc...

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rayiner
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Re: NYU v Penn

Postby rayiner » Sun Sep 02, 2012 7:00 pm

kaiser wrote:COL isn't necessarily higher at NYU. Live in Jersey City or Hoboken, do the 30 minute commute, and its probably even cheaper than Philly COL. Those who want cheaper COL around Manhattan/NYU area can certainly find it if they are flexible.


Philly >> the Dirty Jerz.

Also, Jersey City or Hoboken are not cheaper than Philly.

opX
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Re: NYU v Penn

Postby opX » Sun Sep 02, 2012 7:01 pm

bobbyflayed wrote:
opX wrote:remember prestige can have significant career implications. Its not just ego behind prestige. Credibility and name matters and will follow you forever.


which school are you referring to? NYU is higher ranked but Penn is well known in business?


both - but I was actually referring to your first Job and 2L summer.

imo - ud have a beter career advantage coming from NYU for NYC big law than coming from Penn.

going to NYU would also satisfy any interviewer who demands to know "why NY!!!!!?"
Last edited by opX on Sun Sep 02, 2012 7:03 pm, edited 3 times in total.

bobbyflayed
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Re: NYU v Penn

Postby bobbyflayed » Sun Sep 02, 2012 7:02 pm

Ah ok, ignore that PM just sent over.

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iMisto
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Re: NYU v Penn

Postby iMisto » Sun Sep 02, 2012 7:03 pm

I believe opX is referring to firms. NYU will give you a better shot at the most prestigious firms, which, in turn, will/may benefit you throughout your career.
Last edited by iMisto on Sun Sep 02, 2012 7:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

opX
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Re: NYU v Penn

Postby opX » Sun Sep 02, 2012 7:04 pm

iMisto wrote:I believe opX is referring to firms. NYU will give you a better shot at the most prestigious firms, which, in turn, will may benefit you throughout your career.


this

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goden
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Re: NYU v Penn

Postby goden » Sun Sep 02, 2012 7:05 pm

If I can get my LSAT up I'd be in a similar situation as you since we have nearly the same GPA. I have a strong CA preference as well. If between NYU and Penn, my decision would come down to which school places the better in CA (if there is a non-negligible difference). If the difference is negligible, I'd probably ED Penn because of the near auto-admit. Plus I went there for undergrad and liked Penn/living in Philly.

I would, however, be hesitant about EDing anywhere because it would take away your ability to negotiate scholarships. And it would suck if you got into Berkeley but got in ED somewhere else.
Last edited by goden on Sun Sep 02, 2012 7:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

kaiser
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Re: NYU v Penn

Postby kaiser » Sun Sep 02, 2012 7:05 pm

bobbyflayed wrote:Does NYU's larger class affect job prospects compared to Penn's?


The larger class size isn't really an issue since NYC has so many opportunities in general (relative to other cities and locales). Thats why you can have two large schools like Columbia and NYU without one stepping on the toes of the other. In other words, the town is big enough for the both of them. And that is because there are typically enough positions to justify the large class sizes.

As for the % of NYU students that go the PI route, I can't say for sure. But the administration is always very helpful here at NYU, so why not call up the PI office, who will likely know that statistic.

As for the "as long as they pay the same" comment, I'd caution against such a mindset. Sure, if you go to a school where very few get biglaw, and you somehow manage to get any Vault job, then sure, any one is fine and you should just be happy to have a big firm job. But you are choosing between schools that will give you wonderful opportunities with the best firms. Prestige matters in the legal industry, and its the fuel that launches your career, and keeps you on a high trajectory throughout. Sure, getting paid is great, and pretty much any big firm will take care of you in that respect, but try and think about things in a more long-term sense.

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JamMasterJ
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Re: NYU v Penn

Postby JamMasterJ » Sun Sep 02, 2012 7:06 pm

rayiner wrote:
kaiser wrote:COL isn't necessarily higher at NYU. Live in Jersey City or Hoboken, do the 30 minute commute, and its probably even cheaper than Philly COL. Those who want cheaper COL around Manhattan/NYU area can certainly find it if they are flexible.


Philly >> the Dirty Jerz.

Also, Jersey City or Hoboken are not cheaper than Philly.

JC and Hoboken are almost expensive as most of Manhattan. You will undoubtedly spend more if you come here, but we do have a solid California network from what I've heard. A ton of my class is from LA and there are several from northern California as well. Also, I'm not 100% sure, but I think our median's down to 171 so ED will probably get you in.

kaiser
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Re: NYU v Penn

Postby kaiser » Sun Sep 02, 2012 7:06 pm

rayiner wrote:
kaiser wrote:COL isn't necessarily higher at NYU. Live in Jersey City or Hoboken, do the 30 minute commute, and its probably even cheaper than Philly COL. Those who want cheaper COL around Manhattan/NYU area can certainly find it if they are flexible.


Philly >> the Dirty Jerz.

Also, Jersey City or Hoboken are not cheaper than Philly.


It is if you know where to look. Lived in multiple places in Jersey City, never paid more than $800/month. Takes 15 min to get to downtown NY. Pretty awesome.
Last edited by kaiser on Sun Sep 02, 2012 7:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Blessedassurance
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Re: NYU v Penn

Postby Blessedassurance » Sun Sep 02, 2012 7:07 pm

opX wrote:imo - ud have a beter career advantage coming from NYU for NYC big law than coming from Penn.


Not really.

opX
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Re: NYU v Penn

Postby opX » Sun Sep 02, 2012 7:12 pm

Blessedassurance wrote:
opX wrote:imo - ud have a beter career advantage coming from NYU for NYC big law than coming from Penn.


Not really.


prettttty sure there are more NYU alum partners at top law firms than upenn.

bobbyflayed
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Re: NYU v Penn

Postby bobbyflayed » Sun Sep 02, 2012 7:13 pm

Which school places better back into LA or California in general? The NYC advantage is irrelevant for me; given the choice, I choose California over prestige.




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