USC vs UCLA for Entertainment Law

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bantkiewicz
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USC vs UCLA for Entertainment Law

Postby bantkiewicz » Wed Aug 15, 2012 7:46 pm

Both are very strong given the area and academic prestige, but does either have a clear advantage?

If not, what might make you choose one over the other?

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99.9luft
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Re: USC vs UCLA for Entertainment Law

Postby 99.9luft » Wed Aug 15, 2012 8:04 pm


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No13baby
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Re: USC vs UCLA for Entertainment Law

Postby No13baby » Wed Aug 15, 2012 11:40 pm

They're probably about the same (this is a difficult field to get into even if you go to either of those schools.) Pick whichever one is cheaper.

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AntipodeanPhil
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Re: USC vs UCLA for Entertainment Law

Postby AntipodeanPhil » Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:47 pm

Hopefully you're already aware that entertainment law is almost entirely about who you know. There aren't many jobs, and the people who get them generally have connections. There are a few big law firms that deal with clients in entertainment law, but they tend to hire from the t14, and - even if they hire you - they might not assign you to those clients. Also, the specific programs these schools have are meaningless. If you don't have connections, you will need to be very, very lucky.

You should pick the school that will give you the best chance of a getting a paying job, since these schools graduate many students who fail to land full-time, paying, JD-required positions.

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L’Étranger
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Re: USC vs UCLA for Entertainment Law

Postby L’Étranger » Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:53 pm

Not pointing this out to be a jerk, but this very question has come up on previous threads so try a search.

I think the tldr version is that no school can guarantee you success in a particular field of law. Generally, get into the best school you can and gun it for the top of the class when you're there and you'll be fine.

Fark-o-vision
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Re: USC vs UCLA for Entertainment Law

Postby Fark-o-vision » Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:15 am

Why are the specialty rankings kind of a joke? Because "entertainment law" is probably about as nebulous as "international law." The one successful person in "entertainment law" that I've ever had the chance to speak with basically outlined his process like this:

1) Went to t14

2) Got LA biglaw at a flexible firm

3) specialized in contracts

4) tried to get attached to every client in entertainment he could

5) after years, he basically worked exclusively with studios.

Don't know how hard/easy that route is to duplicate, and I don't know if it is the normal path (feels like it to me, but I could be wrong), but it is the only real route I've encountered.

locthebloke
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Re: USC vs UCLA for Entertainment Law

Postby locthebloke » Fri Aug 17, 2012 2:19 pm

OP, "Entertainment Law" is just a flashy buzzphrase the law school slime use to further make the legal profession sound glamorous so you go ga-ga over the prospect of attending law school so they can have your money. It's as bogus as "Sports Law". "Entertainment Law" is not an actual field of law. If you work in the entertainment industry as a lawyer you are doing contracts. You're doing intellectual property. All that kind of regular lawyer stuff. It's not different.

It is naive to try to pick a law school based on a field you want to go into. You need to be aiming as high as you can and for as much money as you can. That's it. UCLA and USC are both fine schools, but they are both outside the top 14, and attending even them without significant scholarship money is risky. The California market is hideously saturated, and you are competing with graduates from two schools inside the top 10 in California, to say nothing of the top 14. Added that also, a desirable area like Southern California is a ready made destination for Ivy grads and the like. It's pretty safe to say that USC and UCLA grads in the top 5-10% of their class will be quite alright, but beyond that, it's always a risk.

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L’Étranger
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Re: USC vs UCLA for Entertainment Law

Postby L’Étranger » Fri Aug 17, 2012 3:08 pm

locthebloke wrote:OP, "Entertainment Law" is just a flashy buzzphrase the law school slime use to further make the legal profession sound glamorous so you go ga-ga over the prospect of attending law school so they can have your money. It's as bogus as "Sports Law". "Entertainment Law" is not an actual field of law. If you work in the entertainment industry as a lawyer you are doing contracts. You're doing intellectual property. All that kind of regular lawyer stuff. It's not different.

It is naive to try to pick a law school based on a field you want to go into. You need to be aiming as high as you can and for as much money as you can. That's it. UCLA and USC are both fine schools, but they are both outside the top 14, and attending even them without significant scholarship money is risky. The California market is hideously saturated, and you are competing with graduates from two schools inside the top 10 in California, to say nothing of the top 14. Added that also, a desirable area like Southern California is a ready made destination for Ivy grads and the like. It's pretty safe to say that USC and UCLA grads in the top 5-10% of their class will be quite alright, but beyond that, it's always a risk.


I think you're right and you're wrong. Entertainment lawyers do exist at a number of LA firms in the sense that you describe, i.e. attorney's who do transactional work in the entertainment industry, but I suspect that the OP means entertainment law in the sense of being a talent agent which too exists and is different.

I think you are right that going to either USC or UCLA will not increase one's chances of becoming either an entertainment lawyer or an agent, but I would disagree with the pessimistic employment numbers you state. I think both schools actually do pretty well in southern CA.

bigvinny
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Re: USC vs UCLA for Entertainment Law

Postby bigvinny » Fri Aug 17, 2012 8:48 pm

Did you try Berkeley or Stanford?

071816
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Re: USC vs UCLA for Entertainment Law

Postby 071816 » Fri Aug 17, 2012 8:53 pm

locthebloke wrote:OP, "Entertainment Law" is just a flashy buzzphrase the law school slime use to further make the legal profession sound glamorous so you go ga-ga over the prospect of attending law school so they can have your money. It's as bogus as "Sports Law". "Entertainment Law" is not an actual field of law. If you work in the entertainment industry as a lawyer you are doing contracts. You're doing intellectual property. All that kind of regular lawyer stuff. It's not different.

It is naive to try to pick a law school based on a field you want to go into. You need to be aiming as high as you can and for as much money as you can. That's it. UCLA and USC are both fine schools, but they are both outside the top 14, and attending even them without significant scholarship money is risky. The California market is hideously saturated, and you are competing with graduates from two schools inside the top 10 in California, to say nothing of the top 14. Added that also, a desirable area like Southern California is a ready made destination for Ivy grads and the like. It's pretty safe to say that USC and UCLA grads in the top 5-10% of their class will be quite alright, but beyond that, it's always a risk.

LOL

Fark-o-vision
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Re: USC vs UCLA for Entertainment Law

Postby Fark-o-vision » Sat Aug 18, 2012 9:27 pm

chimp wrote:
locthebloke wrote:OP, "Entertainment Law" is just a flashy buzzphrase the law school slime use to further make the legal profession sound glamorous so you go ga-ga over the prospect of attending law school so they can have your money. It's as bogus as "Sports Law". "Entertainment Law" is not an actual field of law. If you work in the entertainment industry as a lawyer you are doing contracts. You're doing intellectual property. All that kind of regular lawyer stuff. It's not different.

It is naive to try to pick a law school based on a field you want to go into. You need to be aiming as high as you can and for as much money as you can. That's it. UCLA and USC are both fine schools, but they are both outside the top 14, and attending even them without significant scholarship money is risky. The California market is hideously saturated, and you are competing with graduates from two schools inside the top 10 in California, to say nothing of the top 14. Added that also, a desirable area like Southern California is a ready made destination for Ivy grads and the like. It's pretty safe to say that USC and UCLA grads in the top 5-10% of their class will be quite alright, but beyond that, it's always a risk.

LOL


At the hyperbole, or are you participating in the greater hyperbole that only top 3% at HYS are safe?

071816
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Re: USC vs UCLA for Entertainment Law

Postby 071816 » Sat Aug 18, 2012 9:30 pm

Fark-o-vision wrote:
chimp wrote:
locthebloke wrote:OP, "Entertainment Law" is just a flashy buzzphrase the law school slime use to further make the legal profession sound glamorous so you go ga-ga over the prospect of attending law school so they can have your money. It's as bogus as "Sports Law". "Entertainment Law" is not an actual field of law. If you work in the entertainment industry as a lawyer you are doing contracts. You're doing intellectual property. All that kind of regular lawyer stuff. It's not different.

It is naive to try to pick a law school based on a field you want to go into. You need to be aiming as high as you can and for as much money as you can. That's it. UCLA and USC are both fine schools, but they are both outside the top 14, and attending even them without significant scholarship money is risky. The California market is hideously saturated, and you are competing with graduates from two schools inside the top 10 in California, to say nothing of the top 14. Added that also, a desirable area like Southern California is a ready made destination for Ivy grads and the like. It's pretty safe to say that USC and UCLA grads in the top 5-10% of their class will be quite alright, but beyond that, it's always a risk.

LOL


At the hyperbole, or are you participating in the greater hyperbole that only top 3% at HYS are safe?

lol @ the fact that this guy thinks that only top 5-10% at USC/UCLA are "quite alright."

locthebloke
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Re: USC vs UCLA for Entertainment Law

Postby locthebloke » Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:27 pm

chimp wrote:lol @ the fact that this guy thinks that only top 5-10% at USC/UCLA are "quite alright."


Laugh if you'd like, friend, but I stick by what I said, and my stance that it is MUCH worse out there than a lot of the TLS brats (most of whom know that it's bad) know or care to know. As I just posted in another thread, my friend who went to Northwestern, a school ranked higher than either of these schools-- spent 8 months looking for a job, and when she found one, it was in a nowhere town in Southern Illinois for 45k/year. This friend does not feel entitled to huge money, but such a job is not exactly a nice return on a investment of three years of brutal tedious work and an extra 150k in debt. For a graduate of a t14, a job in the middle of nowhere making less than 50k is a crap-ass job.

Enter California. Obscene glut of lawyers and law schools. Two law schools inside the top 10. Desirable area for jetsetters with Ivy Degrees. I didn't even say USC and UCLA were bad schools. But you're simply naive if you think you're going to necessarily be "quite alright" just because you have a JD from either.

071816
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Re: USC vs UCLA for Entertainment Law

Postby 071816 » Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:51 pm

locthebloke wrote:
chimp wrote:lol @ the fact that this guy thinks that only top 5-10% at USC/UCLA are "quite alright."


Laugh if you'd like, friend, but I stick by what I said, and my stance that it is MUCH worse out there than a lot of the TLS brats (most of whom know that it's bad) know or care to know. As I just posted in another thread, my friend who went to Northwestern, a school ranked higher than either of these schools-- spent 8 months looking for a job, and when she found one, it was in a nowhere town in Southern Illinois for 45k/year. This friend does not feel entitled to huge money, but such a job is not exactly a nice return on a investment of three years of brutal tedious work and an extra 150k in debt. For a graduate of a t14, a job in the middle of nowhere making less than 50k is a crap-ass job.

Enter California. Obscene glut of lawyers and law schools. Two law schools inside the top 10. Desirable area for jetsetters with Ivy Degrees. I didn't even say USC and UCLA were bad schools. But you're simply naive if you think you're going to necessarily be "quite alright" just because you have a JD from either.

I didn't say that. All I implied was that your original statement was quite hyperbolic.

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bk1
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Re: USC vs UCLA for Entertainment Law

Postby bk1 » Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:01 pm

locthebloke wrote:my friend who went to Northwestern


Holy fuck, stop the presses. ONE person from NU got a shitty job?! That must mean all these schools are terrible at any price.

locthebloke
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Re: USC vs UCLA for Entertainment Law

Postby locthebloke » Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:47 pm

bk1 wrote:
locthebloke wrote:my friend who went to Northwestern


Holy fuck, stop the presses. ONE person from NU got a shitty job?! That must mean all these schools are terrible at any price.


First of all, *nowhere* did I say or imply that "these schools" (whichever schools you are even referring to) are "terrible at any price." Let's review what I said.

1. USC and UCLA, while fine schools, are not guarantees of of anything. And the only way to be basically assured is to be top 5-10%. I also said that USC and UCLA might be worth attending in general with significant scholarship. That is not saying they're terrible at any price.

2. It is worse out there than a lot of people on this website seem to think, even the ones who are conscious of the fact that it is bad. I used an example of a friend who graduated firmly in the middle of her class from a top 14 school. For a grad of a very prestigious law school with six-figure debt, she got a crappy-ass job after 8 months of searching.

I brought up three schools explicitly in my posts. USC, UCLA and NU. Nowhere did I say any of these were "terrible options at any price".

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Re: USC vs UCLA for Entertainment Law

Postby 071816 » Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:49 pm

There's no way to be "basically assured" of anything at any school regardless of grades. The 5-10% distinction is useless and misleading.

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bk1
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Re: USC vs UCLA for Entertainment Law

Postby bk1 » Mon Aug 20, 2012 7:18 pm

locthebloke wrote:It is worse out there than a lot of people on this website seem to think, even the ones who are conscious of the fact that it is bad. I used an example of a friend who graduated firmly in the middle of her class from a top 14 school. For a grad of a very prestigious law school with six-figure debt, she got a crappy-ass job after 8 months of searching.


The problem is that your anecdote is irrelevant. A significant portion of NU's class ends up underemployed. This is true at other T14 schools as well. This isn't new or surprising. Bringing up your anecdote doesn't add anything to the conversation. If instead you had pointed out that X% of NU's class (or even better, X% of UCLA/USC's class) was unemployed/underemployed that would be useful, but you didn't.

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HarlandBassett
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Re: USC vs UCLA for Entertainment Law

Postby HarlandBassett » Thu Aug 23, 2012 10:00 am

locthebloke wrote:OP, "Entertainment Law" is just a flashy buzzphrase the law school slime use to further make the legal profession sound glamorous so you go ga-ga over the prospect of attending law school so they can have your money. It's as bogus as "Sports Law". "Entertainment Law" is not an actual field of law. If you work in the entertainment industry as a lawyer you are doing contracts. You're doing intellectual property. All that kind of regular lawyer stuff. It's not different.

It is naive to try to pick a law school based on a field you want to go into. You need to be aiming as high as you can and for as much money as you can. That's it. UCLA and USC are both fine schools, but they are both outside the top 14, and attending even them without significant scholarship money is risky. The California market is hideously saturated, and you are competing with graduates from two schools inside the top 10 in California, to say nothing of the top 14. Added that also, a desirable area like Southern California is a ready made destination for Ivy grads and the like. It's pretty safe to say that USC and UCLA grads in the top 5-10% of their class will be quite alright, but beyond that, it's always a risk.

http://insidethelawschoolscam.blogspot. ... s-law.html

locthebloke
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Re: USC vs UCLA for Entertainment Law

Postby locthebloke » Thu Aug 23, 2012 8:27 pm



"Space, Cyber and Telecommunications Law" at Nebraska. I almost spit out my f*#@^g drink. Won't be long before the snakes get really savvy and start advertising themselves as having top programs in Bird Law. (Props to anyone who gets the reference).

JohnMarshall17
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Re: USC vs UCLA for Entertainment Law

Postby JohnMarshall17 » Mon Sep 24, 2012 3:04 pm

I just hope I'm lucky enough this cycle to be able to make a decision.

timbs4339
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Re: USC vs UCLA for Entertainment Law

Postby timbs4339 » Mon Sep 24, 2012 3:30 pm

JohnMarshall17 wrote:I just hope I'm lucky enough this cycle to be able to make a decision.


"Luck" is not the right way to think about it. You wouldn't say you're "lucky" enough to be able to take out loans to get a Ferrari. It's an economic decision that you need to have the ability to walk away from if it doesn't make sense- and UCLA/USC at sticker to pursue dreams of hobnobbing with Hollywood stars at movie premieres does not make sense.

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BuckinghamB
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Re: USC vs UCLA for Entertainment Law

Postby BuckinghamB » Mon Sep 24, 2012 8:24 pm

yale




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