Temple U in the Philadelphia job market

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magp90
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Temple U in the Philadelphia job market

Postby magp90 » Fri Aug 10, 2012 12:44 pm

Given that Penn is a hop, skip, and a jump away, how well do Temple students do when it comes to finding a job in Philadelphia?

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Nova
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Re: Temple U in the Philadelphia job market

Postby Nova » Fri Aug 10, 2012 1:40 pm

Not bad, considering only 22% of Penn grads stay in state.

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Re: Temple U in the Philadelphia job market

Postby HeavenWood » Sat Aug 11, 2012 4:06 pm

magp90 wrote:Given that Penn is a hop, skip, and a jump away, how well do Temple students do when it comes to finding a job in Philadelphia?

Penn students that want to stay and have ties do exceptionally well, but since Penn mostly self-selects into NYC and DC, competition from Penn students is a relative non-issue. That said, as a larger secondary market, there aren't a whole ton of legal jobs to go around and Philadelphia class sizes tend to be rather small, so Temple/Villanova/RUC/Widener students are still going to have a tough time finding firm jobs.

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Re: Temple U in the Philadelphia job market

Postby JoeFish » Sun Aug 12, 2012 1:39 am

HeavenWood wrote:Temple/Villanova/RUC/Widener students are still going to have a tough time finding firm jobs.


This is probably true. Among that bunch, though, the general feeling, I think, is that Temple has a bit of a leg up. I mean, near as I can tell, every Philly firm has a good deal of Temple people near the top.

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Re: Temple U in the Philadelphia job market

Postby HeavenWood » Sun Aug 12, 2012 8:47 pm

JoeFish wrote:
HeavenWood wrote:Temple/Villanova/RUC/Widener students are still going to have a tough time finding firm jobs.


This is probably true. Among that bunch, though, the general feeling, I think, is that Temple has a bit of a leg up. I mean, near as I can tell, every Philly firm has a good deal of Temple people near the top.

Temple/Villanova > RU-C >>> Widener

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Re: Temple U in the Philadelphia job market

Postby magp90 » Mon Aug 13, 2012 4:36 pm

Of the law schools in the greater Philadelphia area, I'm really only considering attending Penn or Temple, and I'm applying to Villanova as a way of covering all my bases... Of course the market is bad for students from all schools, but I'm not looking to shoot myself in the proverbial foot before I even attempt to enter the workforce. Plus, Temple is a fraction of the cost for in-state applicants.

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Re: Temple U in the Philadelphia job market

Postby 20130312 » Mon Aug 13, 2012 4:52 pm

HeavenWood wrote:Temple/Villanova > RU-C >>> Widener


I've seen this a lot on TLS, but Temple/Villanova/RU-C seem to be in the same ballpark to me (even if you go back into previous years):

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magp90
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Re: Temple U in the Philadelphia job market

Postby magp90 » Mon Aug 13, 2012 4:55 pm

I think the difference between Temple and, say, Villanova is that it has highly ranked individual programs, such as their Trial Advocacy (second in the country) and Legal Writing programs. From what I understand, Nova is just Nova.

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Re: Temple U in the Philadelphia job market

Postby flem » Mon Aug 13, 2012 4:56 pm

magp90 wrote:I think the difference between Temple and, say, Villanova is that it has highly ranked individual programs, such as their Trial Advocacy (second in the country) and Legal Writing programs. From what I understand, Nova is just Nova.

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Re: Temple U in the Philadelphia job market

Postby 20130312 » Mon Aug 13, 2012 5:06 pm

flem wrote:
magp90 wrote:I think the difference between Temple and, say, Villanova is that it has highly ranked individual programs, such as their Trial Advocacy (second in the country) and Legal Writing programs. From what I understand, Nova is just Nova.


tflem's analysis is spot on, as usual. The only difference is that one is in the city and one is out on the Main Line.

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Re: Temple U in the Philadelphia job market

Postby HeavenWood » Mon Aug 13, 2012 5:21 pm

InGoodFaith wrote:
flem wrote:
magp90 wrote:I think the difference between Temple and, say, Villanova is that it has highly ranked individual programs, such as their Trial Advocacy (second in the country) and Legal Writing programs. From what I understand, Nova is just Nova.


tflem's analysis is spot on, as usual. The only difference is that one is in the city and one is out on the Main Line.

Purty much.

Also, this is in no way a knock against RU-C, but as a South Jersey school, it does have a bit less of a preestablished pipeline into Philly--not enough that it would be wise to pay much more for Temple/Villanova, but definitely a consideration when all costs are approximately equal.

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Re: Temple U in the Philadelphia job market

Postby 20130312 » Mon Aug 13, 2012 6:43 pm

HeavenWood wrote:Purty much.

Also, this is in no way a knock against RU-C, but as a South Jersey school, it does have a bit less of a preestablished pipeline into Philly--not enough that it would be wise to pay much more for Temple/Villanova, but definitely a consideration when all costs are approximately equal.


RC fail on my part. Temple and Nova are definitely better at placement IN PHILLY.

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Re: Temple U in the Philadelphia job market

Postby magp90 » Tue Aug 14, 2012 10:52 am

Regardless of the perception of Villanova compared to Temple, I know Villanova graduates who have actually felt the burn when looking for a job of the law school's inaccurate admissions reports to the ABA a couple of years ago. (http://abovethelaw.com/2011/02/villanov ... o-the-aba/)

Applicants have even gotten more scholarships because the school has attempted to get back into the public's good graces. The quality of the education may be comparable to Temple's (though that could be a matter of opinion and specialty), but Villanova's reputation- at least in the very recent past- has been on shakier ground.

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Re: Temple U in the Philadelphia job market

Postby top30man » Tue Aug 14, 2012 11:01 am

magp90 wrote:Regardless of the perception of Villanova compared to Temple, I know Villanova graduates who have actually felt the burn when looking for a job of the law school's inaccurate admissions reports to the ABA a couple of years ago. (http://abovethelaw.com/2011/02/villanov ... o-the-aba/)

Applicants have even gotten more scholarships because the school has attempted to get back into the public's good graces. The quality of the education may be comparable to Temple's (though that could be a matter of opinion and specialty), but Villanova's reputation- at least in the very recent past- has been on shakier ground.

If we are having an anecdote battle I know multiple small firm lawyers in south jersey / Philly who were not aware of the scandal. If a firm would judge a kid because they suspect that his 161 was actually a 158, that's a bad sign.

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Re: Temple U in the Philadelphia job market

Postby magp90 » Tue Aug 14, 2012 11:17 am

top30man wrote:
magp90 wrote:Regardless of the perception of Villanova compared to Temple, I know Villanova graduates who have actually felt the burn when looking for a job of the law school's inaccurate admissions reports to the ABA a couple of years ago. (http://abovethelaw.com/2011/02/villanov ... o-the-aba/)

Applicants have even gotten more scholarships because the school has attempted to get back into the public's good graces. The quality of the education may be comparable to Temple's (though that could be a matter of opinion and specialty), but Villanova's reputation- at least in the very recent past- has been on shakier ground.

If we are having an anecdote battle I know multiple small firm lawyers in south jersey / Philly who were not aware of the scandal. If a firm would judge a kid because they suspect that his 161 was actually a 158, that's a bad sign.


Of course it's a bad sign. The only reason I brought up the Villanova scandal was because I know several graduates who have had to deal with it when it came time to look for a job. I'm not looking to generalize the experience; I'm simply stating that it happened, and that the school has sought to better their reputation because of it. The fact that small firms in South Jersey weren't aware of the situation doesn't conflict with that.

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Re: Temple U in the Philadelphia job market

Postby HeavenWood » Tue Aug 14, 2012 2:44 pm

magp90 wrote:
top30man wrote:
magp90 wrote:Regardless of the perception of Villanova compared to Temple, I know Villanova graduates who have actually felt the burn when looking for a job of the law school's inaccurate admissions reports to the ABA a couple of years ago. (http://abovethelaw.com/2011/02/villanov ... o-the-aba/)

Applicants have even gotten more scholarships because the school has attempted to get back into the public's good graces. The quality of the education may be comparable to Temple's (though that could be a matter of opinion and specialty), but Villanova's reputation- at least in the very recent past- has been on shakier ground.

If we are having an anecdote battle I know multiple small firm lawyers in south jersey / Philly who were not aware of the scandal. If a firm would judge a kid because they suspect that his 161 was actually a 158, that's a bad sign.


Of course it's a bad sign. The only reason I brought up the Villanova scandal was because I know several graduates who have had to deal with it when it came time to look for a job. I'm not looking to generalize the experience; I'm simply stating that it happened, and that the school has sought to better their reputation because of it. The fact that small firms in South Jersey weren't aware of the situation doesn't conflict with that.

By and large, old reputations die hard, and while I certainly believe that a couple Philly firms (or at least whatever interviewer they may happen to send out that day) may have had their opinion of Villanova soured as a result, in the grand, aggregate scheme of things, Villanova and Temple are still seen as equals.

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Re: Temple U in the Philadelphia job market

Postby Ende » Tue Aug 14, 2012 3:20 pm

I'm from Philly, and Temple has always had an excellent reputation. Also, which was stated prior, their Trial Advocacy program is well known and respected.


Philly has a decent amount of good schools in the area:

UPenn
Temple
Rutgers-Camden

-----------------
Widener: I've heard time and time again that firms in the city arent necessarily "fans" of their JD program. I've actually been told from more than one source to not apply there at all. I don't know why, but then again I never asked. Just took it as a suggestion...

Drexel: Just opened within the last few years. I don't know how their graduates are doing in terms of job prospects. I have read that they are pretty nice with the scholarship money too.

Villanova: Same as what was stated by a previous post, to be careful due to the bogus stats the school released.


Also, keep in mind that south jersey, specifically Cherry Hill/Marlton is a great place to work. Cherry Hill has money in it, so don't be fooled into thinking you HAVE to stay in the city to work and make good living. Then again, what constitutes "a good living" can vary from one person to the next.
Last edited by Ende on Tue Aug 14, 2012 3:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Temple U in the Philadelphia job market

Postby 20130312 » Tue Aug 14, 2012 3:22 pm

Ende wrote:Also, keep in mind that south jersey, specifically Cherry Hill/Marlton is a great place to work. Cherry Hill has money in it, so don't be fooled into thinking you HAVE to stay in the city to work and make good living. Then again, what constitutes "a good living" can vary from one person to the next.


Don't forget Collingswood, Haddonfield, Moorestown, Voorhees...

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Re: Temple U in the Philadelphia job market

Postby Ende » Tue Aug 14, 2012 3:27 pm

InGoodFaith wrote:
Ende wrote:Also, keep in mind that south jersey, specifically Cherry Hill/Marlton is a great place to work. Cherry Hill has money in it, so don't be fooled into thinking you HAVE to stay in the city to work and make good living. Then again, what constitutes "a good living" can vary from one person to the next.


Don't forget Collingswood, Haddonfield, Moorestown, Voorhees...



Don't know too much about those areas in terms of jobs, quality of living, so I stuck with what I knew. Washington Twp. is also an area with money.

Besides, I'ven noticed that a lot of people aren't bringing up the "city wage tax" in Philly. Why not live in jersey, work in jersey and not have to worry about the hit on the paycheck?

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Re: Temple U in the Philadelphia job market

Postby 20130312 » Tue Aug 14, 2012 3:30 pm

Ende wrote:
InGoodFaith wrote:
Ende wrote:Also, keep in mind that south jersey, specifically Cherry Hill/Marlton is a great place to work. Cherry Hill has money in it, so don't be fooled into thinking you HAVE to stay in the city to work and make good living. Then again, what constitutes "a good living" can vary from one person to the next.


Don't forget Collingswood, Haddonfield, Moorestown, Voorhees...



Don't know too much about those areas in terms of jobs, quality of living, so I stuck with what I knew. Washington Twp. is also an area with money.

Besides, I'ven noticed that a lot of people aren't bringing up the "city wage tax" in Philly. Why not live in jersey, work in jersey and not have to worry about the hit on the paycheck?


Good look finding a market paying job in South Jersey... unless you snag Archer. And then I will be forever jelly.

I suppose Princeton has options, but they like to call themselves central Jersey.

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Re: Temple U in the Philadelphia job market

Postby Ende » Tue Aug 14, 2012 3:42 pm

InGoodFaith wrote:
Ende wrote:
InGoodFaith wrote:
Ende wrote:Also, keep in mind that south jersey, specifically Cherry Hill/Marlton is a great place to work. Cherry Hill has money in it, so don't be fooled into thinking you HAVE to stay in the city to work and make good living. Then again, what constitutes "a good living" can vary from one person to the next.


Don't forget Collingswood, Haddonfield, Moorestown, Voorhees...



Don't know too much about those areas in terms of jobs, quality of living, so I stuck with what I knew. Washington Twp. is also an area with money.

Besides, I'ven noticed that a lot of people aren't bringing up the "city wage tax" in Philly. Why not live in jersey, work in jersey and not have to worry about the hit on the paycheck?


Good look finding a market paying job in South Jersey... unless you snag Archer. And then I will be forever jelly.

I suppose Princeton has options, but they like to call themselves central Jersey.



I looked at some of the profiles for the staff, and I saw a lot of Rutgers-Camden grads, Seton Hall grads, Villanova grads. But if you can kick ass in an interview, I think that can sway in your favor, irregardless of where you went to school, unless those firms only stick to the more prestigious firms.

Princeton? Don't know either..

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Re: Temple U in the Philadelphia job market

Postby 20130312 » Tue Aug 14, 2012 3:48 pm

Ende wrote:irregardless of where you went to school

Ende wrote:irregardless

Ende wrote:irregardless


:x

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Re: Temple U in the Philadelphia job market

Postby top30man » Tue Aug 14, 2012 4:00 pm

InGoodFaith wrote:
Ende wrote:
InGoodFaith wrote:
Ende wrote:Also, keep in mind that south jersey, specifically Cherry Hill/Marlton is a great place to work. Cherry Hill has money in it, so don't be fooled into thinking you HAVE to stay in the city to work and make good living. Then again, what constitutes "a good living" can vary from one person to the next.


Don't forget Collingswood, Haddonfield, Moorestown, Voorhees...



Don't know too much about those areas in terms of jobs, quality of living, so I stuck with what I knew. Washington Twp. is also an area with money.

Besides, I'ven noticed that a lot of people aren't bringing up the "city wage tax" in Philly. Why not live in jersey, work in jersey and not have to worry about the hit on the paycheck?


Good look finding a market paying job in South Jersey... unless you snag Archer. And then I will be forever jelly.

I suppose Princeton has options, but they like to call themselves central Jersey.

Most Princeton big law offices are super small branch offices that don't recruit out of law school.

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Re: Temple U in the Philadelphia job market

Postby 20130312 » Tue Aug 14, 2012 4:05 pm

top30man wrote:Most Princeton big law offices are super small branch offices that don't recruit out of law school.


Good to know, thanks.

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Re: Temple U in the Philadelphia job market

Postby Aristone » Tue Aug 14, 2012 4:09 pm

As someone who currently workss at one of the large Philly firms, I can give you my general assessment. Temple/Villanova/R-C are all generally viewed in the same light as one another. I would probably give the (extremely) slight edge to Temple, but it's negligible at best. Further, the reputation of Villanova has not been dramatically tarnished by the inflating numbers scandal and I know my firm has hired the usual amount of Villanova grads.

Please don't go to Widener. Friends don't let friends go to Widener.

And ugh...Washington Twp. a place with money? I'll give you Cherry Hill (east side), Voorhees, Haddonfield, Moorestown, Medford and so forth...but Twp. isn't generally known as an area with too much money. And who wants to live in a town named Sewell anyway? Ok, I'll stop my irrational rant on that area...it does have some nice developments and decent housing prices.

In terms of job prospects in Southern New Jersey...you're looking at Archer obviously, Flaster Greenberg or perhaps a smaller office of a larger Philly-based firm (I'm looking at you, Duane Morris in Cherry Hill). You can also look for larger firms with gaming practices in Atlantic City as well. Other than that...it's small firms or bust.




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