Duke Vs. Cornell

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msblaw89
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Duke Vs. Cornell

Postby msblaw89 » Tue Aug 07, 2012 3:35 pm

If called off Duke's WL...would it be worth it to switch from Cornell to Duke with only days left before classes?

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loomstate
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Re: Duke Vs. Cornell

Postby loomstate » Tue Aug 07, 2012 3:37 pm

nope

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Doorkeeper
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Re: Duke Vs. Cornell

Postby Doorkeeper » Tue Aug 07, 2012 3:37 pm

If NYC biglaw, no.

If mostly anything else, maybe. What do you want to do?

Any scholarship info?

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KMaine
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Re: Duke Vs. Cornell

Postby KMaine » Tue Aug 07, 2012 3:38 pm

If you really want to, sure. Though it is a couple of spots up in the rankings, it is a peer school, so there would be little advantage (esp. if you want to work in the Northeast). It is unlikely to really help or hurt you in any way.

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msblaw89
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Re: Duke Vs. Cornell

Postby msblaw89 » Tue Aug 07, 2012 3:41 pm

Doorkeeper wrote:If NYC biglaw, no.

If mostly anything else, maybe. What do you want to do?

Any scholarship info?


Corporate law...not necessarily in NYC

de5igual
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Re: Duke Vs. Cornell

Postby de5igual » Tue Aug 07, 2012 3:45 pm

doesn't seem to be worth the hassle. where it might make sense is if you want to target a southern market (and have ties, of course).

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Doorkeeper
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Re: Duke Vs. Cornell

Postby Doorkeeper » Tue Aug 07, 2012 3:57 pm

msblaw89 wrote:
Doorkeeper wrote:If NYC biglaw, no.

If mostly anything else, maybe. What do you want to do?

Any scholarship info?


Corporate law...not necessarily in NYC

Cornell is great for NYC and ok for the rest of the Northeast. You probably won't get to Chicago/LA without ties to the region.

Duke has a bit wider of a pull outside of the Northeast, especially in the south.

Where do you want to work, ideally?

If you don't give a fuck, go to Cornell and aim for NYC, especially if you have a scholarship.

jcdjgd
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Re: Duke Vs. Cornell

Postby jcdjgd » Tue Aug 07, 2012 4:12 pm

I'd go Duke if it were me. Mostly because I like the school more, better weather, and I know a shitton of graduates who were happy with their experience, as well as the jobs they got afterward.

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twenty
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Re: Duke Vs. Cornell

Postby twenty » Tue Aug 07, 2012 4:52 pm

I'd say Duke for the weather alone. I can't think of many other places I'd rather not be than rural New York in January.

lawyerwannabe
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Re: Duke Vs. Cornell

Postby lawyerwannabe » Tue Aug 07, 2012 4:55 pm

Are you already in Ithaca? If so, I think leaving would be a poor choice. Extra hassle, extra cost of moving again, and moving in and getting ready to start 1L would be pretty hectic IMO with LARW starting next week and then classes starting on the 20th.

The weather is awesome though down here. I wore a hoodie I think three times the entire year. Other than that, I wore a t-shirt and jeans to school pretty much every day (this is not recommended if you attend Cornell).

lawyerwannabe
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Re: Duke Vs. Cornell

Postby lawyerwannabe » Tue Aug 07, 2012 4:57 pm

twentypercentmore wrote:I'd say Duke for the weather alone. I can't think of many other places I'd rather not be than rural New York in January.


Not that bad. However, navigating the icy hills of Ithaca is not fun plus the wind makes Ithaca even more unusually bitter than many places in Western NY.

mr.hands
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Re: Duke Vs. Cornell

Postby mr.hands » Tue Aug 07, 2012 5:01 pm

I think duke is unquestionably better in terms of placement outside NYC but maybe less so inside NYC. If you have any money at Cornell, I'd stay there though.
Last edited by mr.hands on Tue Aug 07, 2012 6:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Duke Vs. Cornell

Postby CanadianWolf » Tue Aug 07, 2012 6:08 pm

Need more info. Duke probably offers a better quality of life, better Southern placement &, maybe, more clerkship opportunities. Cornell is better for NYC placement, but the environment seems more stressful.

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FlightoftheEarls
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Re: Duke Vs. Cornell

Postby FlightoftheEarls » Tue Aug 07, 2012 7:06 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:Need more info. Duke probably offers a better quality of life, better Southern placement &, maybe, more clerkship opportunities. Cornell is better for NYC placement, but the environment seems more stressful.

Why do you say Cornell is better for NYC placement? Will the same firms go deeper into Cornell's class than Duke's?

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Lincoln
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Re: Duke Vs. Cornell

Postby Lincoln » Tue Aug 07, 2012 7:10 pm

FlightoftheEarls wrote:
CanadianWolf wrote:Need more info. Duke probably offers a better quality of life, better Southern placement &, maybe, more clerkship opportunities. Cornell is better for NYC placement, but the environment seems more stressful.

Why do you say Cornell is better for NYC placement? Will the same firms go deeper into Cornell's class than Duke's?


Yes.

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Bosque
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Re: Duke Vs. Cornell

Postby Bosque » Tue Aug 07, 2012 7:24 pm

Lincoln wrote:
FlightoftheEarls wrote:
CanadianWolf wrote:Need more info. Duke probably offers a better quality of life, better Southern placement &, maybe, more clerkship opportunities. Cornell is better for NYC placement, but the environment seems more stressful.

Why do you say Cornell is better for NYC placement? Will the same firms go deeper into Cornell's class than Duke's?


Yes. Image


Fixed.

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rickgrimes69
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Re: Duke Vs. Cornell

Postby rickgrimes69 » Tue Aug 07, 2012 8:49 pm

Lincoln wrote:
FlightoftheEarls wrote:
CanadianWolf wrote:Need more info. Duke probably offers a better quality of life, better Southern placement &, maybe, more clerkship opportunities. Cornell is better for NYC placement, but the environment seems more stressful.

Why do you say Cornell is better for NYC placement? Will the same firms go deeper into Cornell's class than Duke's?


Yes.


Just because more students from Cornell go to NYC doesn't mean firms will dip deeper in Cornell's class. That's got a lot to do with self-selection and Cornell's relative disadvantage at placing outside the Northeast.

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Lincoln
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Re: Duke Vs. Cornell

Postby Lincoln » Tue Aug 07, 2012 8:56 pm

rickgrimes69 wrote:
Lincoln wrote:
FlightoftheEarls wrote:
CanadianWolf wrote:Need more info. Duke probably offers a better quality of life, better Southern placement &, maybe, more clerkship opportunities. Cornell is better for NYC placement, but the environment seems more stressful.

Why do you say Cornell is better for NYC placement? Will the same firms go deeper into Cornell's class than Duke's?


Yes.


Just because more students from Cornell go to NYC doesn't mean firms will dip deeper in Cornell's class. That's got a lot to do with self-selection and Cornell's relative disadvantage at placing outside the Northeast.


Define "dip deeper", then. If at a given firm there are more students from Cornell than from Duke, and those students are ranked lower in their class than the Duke students, is that not "dip deeper"? That is the case at most large top NYC firms who do recruit from both schools. That may very well be due to the fact that many Duke students choose to go to DC or elsewhere, and most Cornell students self-select into NYC, but I don't know how else you would define it.

Edit: This is naturally a generalization, as are all statements about schools' and firms' behavior. There are certainly NYC firms that do recruit more heavily from Duke but the above generalization is certainly true for my firm and seems to be true at at least a handful of other top firms, though I naturally don't know the exact class rank of every person from Cornell and Duke who went to every firm in NYC.

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Lincoln
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Re: Duke Vs. Cornell

Postby Lincoln » Tue Aug 07, 2012 9:04 pm

Lincoln wrote:Define "dip deeper", then. If at a given firm there are more students from Cornell than from Duke, and those students are ranked lower in their class than the Duke students, is that not "dip deeper"? That is the case at most large top NYC firms who do recruit from both schools. That may very well be due to the fact that many Duke students choose to go to DC or elsewhere, and most Cornell students self-select into NYC, but I don't know how else you would define it.

Edit: This is naturally a generalization, as are all statements about schools' and firms' behavior. There are certainly NYC firms that do recruit more heavily from Duke but the above generalization is certainly true for my firm and seems to be true at at least a handful of other top firms, though I naturally don't know the exact class rank of every person from Cornell and Duke who went to every firm in NYC.


To address OP's question, I think that any benefit gained from choosing Duke at this late stage are in areas other than your chance of getting an offer at a large NYC firm. That doesn't mean there aren't benefits, or that those benefits aren't potentially important, but I think it's false to say being at Duke will get you offers from more firms or more prestigious NYC firms than the same rank at Cornell.

Edited for clarification.

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rickgrimes69
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Re: Duke Vs. Cornell

Postby rickgrimes69 » Tue Aug 07, 2012 9:18 pm

Lincoln wrote:
rickgrimes69 wrote:
Lincoln wrote:
FlightoftheEarls wrote:Why do you say Cornell is better for NYC placement? Will the same firms go deeper into Cornell's class than Duke's?


Yes.


Just because more students from Cornell go to NYC doesn't mean firms will dip deeper in Cornell's class. That's got a lot to do with self-selection and Cornell's relative disadvantage at placing outside the Northeast.


Define "dip deeper", then? If at a given firm there are more students from Cornell than from Duke, and those students are ranked lower in their class than the Duke students, is that not "dip deeper"? That is the case at most large top NYC firms who do recruit from both school. That may very well be due to the fact that many Duke students choose to go to DC or elsewhere, and most Cornell students self-select into NYC, but I don't know how else you would define it.


My point is that just because more Cornell grads place in NYC firms than Duke grads, that doesn't necessarily mean NYC firms prefer Cornell grads. Most associates and partners in the NYC firm I worked at considered them roughly equivalent. You have to remember that while Duke lacks a big home market and sends their grads everywhere, Cornell really only has NYC, so by definition more Cornell grads will target and end up there. The only tangible advantage I could see is that Cornell will have a stronger alumni presence in NYC.

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2014
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Re: Duke Vs. Cornell

Postby 2014 » Tue Aug 07, 2012 9:45 pm

Don't more NYC firms interview at Cornell which is necessarily a good thing in terms of NYC placement? While Duke gets its share too, for every firm that shows up to Cornell OCI but not Dukes that is a chance for a Cornell student to sell themselves while Duke students are mass mailing against with very slim odds. Duke places as well or better overall but that is probably in large part due to its strength in the south which OP might not be interested in or competitive for based on ties or personality.

TL;DR Cornell is safer imo unless you are sold on the south and OP has said nothing to suggest they are.

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msblaw89
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Re: Duke Vs. Cornell

Postby msblaw89 » Tue Aug 07, 2012 9:47 pm

Which for Denver market? Equivalent?

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Doorkeeper
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Re: Duke Vs. Cornell

Postby Doorkeeper » Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:51 pm

msblaw89 wrote:Which for Denver market? Equivalent?

Pretty much equivalent. I would look at who goes to Cornell and Duke OCI though and see if there are any firms with Denver offices. That being said, you're going to probably have to hustle and mass mail to get interviews.

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FlightoftheEarls
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Re: Duke Vs. Cornell

Postby FlightoftheEarls » Tue Aug 07, 2012 11:07 pm

Lincoln wrote:
FlightoftheEarls wrote:
CanadianWolf wrote:Need more info. Duke probably offers a better quality of life, better Southern placement &, maybe, more clerkship opportunities. Cornell is better for NYC placement, but the environment seems more stressful.

Why do you say Cornell is better for NYC placement? Will the same firms go deeper into Cornell's class than Duke's?


Yes.

Thank you for taking the bait, since this has been a really sweet pro-Cornell trolling point that started being thrown around like common knowledge on TLS somewhere around the time of Cornell's solid NLJ data from last year.

Now please back this up. Not with placement percentages from the NLJ charts, but with real data to demonstrate that "most large top NYC firms" actually go deeper at Cornell. In particular, please walk me through Cornell's absolutely STELLAR 3.74 Paul Weiss and 3.81 Skadden average offer GPAs to explain how the top firms are totesies going deeper in Cornell's class.

Lincoln wrote: I think it's false to say being at Duke will get you offers from more firms or more prestigious NYC firms than the same rank at Cornell.

Nobody claimed this. Actually, you claimed the exact opposite. The burden is on you here.

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Bosque
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Re: Duke Vs. Cornell

Postby Bosque » Tue Aug 07, 2012 11:26 pm

2014 wrote:Don't more NYC firms interview at Cornell which is necessarily a good thing in terms of NYC placement? While Duke gets its share too, for every firm that shows up to Cornell OCI but not Dukes that is a chance for a Cornell student to sell themselves while Duke students are mass mailing against with very slim odds. Duke places as well or better overall but that is probably in large part due to its strength in the south which OP might not be interested in or competitive for based on ties or personality.

TL;DR Cornell is safer imo unless you are sold on the south and OP has said nothing to suggest they are.


From this post I am pretty convinced you know nothing about Duke and are basing this advice entirely off of stuff you have read in other posts on this site. Duke is strong in the South, but that is HARDLY its main market. Pretty sure California, NYC, and DC all beat out any Southern location. I tried unsuccessfully to find the lists they sent us of where everyone is from our class, but here is the official data page: http://law.duke.edu/career/resources/facts Would have liked to get the raw data for you, but I am in post bar lazy mode and don't really want to expend more time.




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