T3 and t4 schools

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North
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Re: T3 and t4 schools

Postby North » Sun Aug 12, 2012 1:25 am

bigvinny wrote:You WILL find a job if you are passionate enough and work hard enough in law school. Don't let the elitists on this forum convince you otherwise. Follow your dreams!

Passion doesn't service $200,000 worth of non-dischargeable debt.

bigvinny
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Re: T3 and t4 schools

Postby bigvinny » Sun Aug 12, 2012 1:28 am

North wrote:
bigvinny wrote:You WILL find a job if you are passionate enough and work hard enough in law school. Don't let the elitists on this forum convince you otherwise. Follow your dreams!

Passion doesn't service $200,000 in debt.


Why are you following me from forum to forum, bashing my advice, which is YOUR opinion based on YOUR experiences? Or even more likely, you're just repeating what you're reading here and not actually thinking for yourself.

You're telling me that passion and hard work won't get someone a job? What? That's what this country was founded on. I graduated from a T3 school years ago and I work for a flourishing practice. I know many other lawyers in the same position.

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North
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Re: T3 and t4 schools

Postby North » Sun Aug 12, 2012 1:39 am

bigvinny wrote:
North wrote:
bigvinny wrote:You WILL find a job if you are passionate enough and work hard enough in law school. Don't let the elitists on this forum convince you otherwise. Follow your dreams!

Passion doesn't service $200,000 in debt.


Why are you following me from forum to forum, bashing my advice, which is YOUR opinion based on YOUR experiences? Or even more likely, you're just repeating what you're reading here and not actually thinking for yourself.

You're telling me that passion and hard work won't get someone a job? What? That's what this country was founded on. I graduated from a T3 school years ago and I work for a flourishing practice. I know many other lawyers in the same position.

I'm following you to make sure that none of the posters you're trying to advise have the opportunity to read the things you write without knowing that you, in nearly every case so far, are giving objectively terrible, life-ruining advice.

"Passion" does not make legal employment more likely. Do you think the 81.2% (LinkRemoved) of Golden Gate JD's (a school you suggested to somebody in one of your posts) who can't get a legal job just aren't passionate enough? GTFO.

ETA: Out of curiosity, what year did you graduate from your TTT?

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top30man
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Re: T3 and t4 schools

Postby top30man » Sun Aug 12, 2012 2:13 am

Anecdotes do not equal the average outcome.

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romothesavior
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Re: T3 and t4 schools

Postby romothesavior » Sun Aug 12, 2012 5:59 am

bigvinny wrote:You WILL find a job if you are passionate enough and work hard enough in law school. Don't let the elitists on this forum convince you otherwise. Follow your dreams!

Yeah I think I'll listen to Reasonable Man, a fairly accomplished lawyer with a T4 degree, who is actually honest about the job prospects of his former school, and will openly admit he is an extreme outlier.

Hard work is a necessary, but nowhere near sufficient factor to succeeding from a low tier school. It takes a lot of dumb luck. It is a fool's game to spin the big roulette wheel that is a T3/T4 school and spend a bunch of non-dischargeable loan money in the process.

Pretty sure you're a troll though.

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rickgrimes69
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Re: T3 and t4 schools

Postby rickgrimes69 » Sun Aug 12, 2012 10:23 am

bigvinny wrote:You WILL find a job if you are passionate enough and work hard enough in law school. Don't let the elitists on this forum convince you otherwise. Follow your dreams!


Trolololol

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reasonable_man
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Re: T3 and t4 schools

Postby reasonable_man » Wed Aug 15, 2012 11:45 pm

romothesavior wrote:
bigvinny wrote:You WILL find a job if you are passionate enough and work hard enough in law school. Don't let the elitists on this forum convince you otherwise. Follow your dreams!

Yeah I think I'll listen to Reasonable Man, a fairly accomplished lawyer with a T4 degree, who is actually honest about the job prospects of his former school, and will openly admit he is an extreme outlier.

Hard work is a necessary, but nowhere near sufficient factor to succeeding from a low tier school. It takes a lot of dumb luck. It is a fool's game to spin the big roulette wheel that is a T3/T4 school and spend a bunch of non-dischargeable loan money in the process.

Pretty sure you're a troll though.



Well said. And as an aside, I entered LS in the summer/fall of 2005 (2 years before the market tanked). While I'm very happy with the way things have worked out, if the economy had been as it is now, back then, I'm pretty sure I would not have made the decision to attend my TTT LS.

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SuperCerealBrah
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Re: T3 and t4 schools

Postby SuperCerealBrah » Thu Aug 16, 2012 12:44 am

romothesavior wrote:
bigvinny wrote:You WILL find a job if you are passionate enough and work hard enough in law school. Don't let the elitists on this forum convince you otherwise. Follow your dreams!

Yeah I think I'll listen to Reasonable Man, a fairly accomplished lawyer with a T4 degree, who is actually honest about the job prospects of his former school, and will openly admit he is an extreme outlier.

Hard work is a necessary, but nowhere near sufficient factor to succeeding from a low tier school. It takes a lot of dumb luck. It is a fool's game to spin the big roulette wheel that is a T3/T4 school and spend a bunch of non-dischargeable loan money in the process.

Pretty sure you're a troll though.



I just do not buy the bolded. I do think there is some luck involved and I do think there are people who work their butts off to still end up on the short end of the stick at least initially. However, as a general rule, no. Employers do not just randomly pull names out of a hat. The problem with many analogies made on this site, is people act like hiring decisions are made this way (i.e. as if an employer just puts all the law grads names in a hat and just randomly pulls one out). That is how a lottery works and hiring is not a lottery system. There may be some truth to this in the way biglaw hires/functions. However, to even get an interview for biglaw you still have to manage to get in the top of your class. And, yes I do believe grades can have an aspect of luck to them. However, I do not think it is a lot of dumb luck. Just because you are "working hard" does not mean you are working smart.

The fact I spent years developing good contacts and networking with other attorneys was not dumb luck. All the coffee meetings and diligence in keeping up with those contacts over those years was not dumb luck. Like I said, being in the right spot at the right time is important, but the likelihood of you being in that spot is higher when you actually are smart and diligent in doing these things. Spraying as many firms as you can find with open positions near graduation I suppose can be a lot of dumb luck. But, this is just not an effective way of finding employment anyway. Of course it will be hard to obtain employment when you are just a resume amongst hundreds. This isn't unique to law either. The most people I know with the best jobs obtained those positions by who they know and how well they managed contacts over a number of years. It does not happen overnight. These are important skills for when you are practicing as well. The average law student just does not get that and trying to analogize this whole endeavor as a lottery system as many on here often do is psychologically setting yourself up for failure before you even begin. Talk about a depressing way to live your life, not to mention a defeatist attitude that is almost certain to result in failure.

And yea, yea I get it debt, etc. I am only discussing the luck comment though, not the wisdom of dropping out when you are at the bottom and looking and massive amounts of debt.

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Borhas
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Re: T3 and t4 schools

Postby Borhas » Thu Aug 16, 2012 12:53 am

I wonder if a reasonable men would have hotter wives or newer apartments if they went T14 schools or if they'd basically end up the same place.

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reasonable_man
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Re: T3 and t4 schools

Postby reasonable_man » Thu Aug 16, 2012 8:13 am

Borhas wrote:I wonder if a reasonable men would have hotter wives or newer apartments if they went T14 schools or if they'd basically end up the same place.


A newer apartment; maybe...

kenji
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Re: T3 and t4 schools

Postby kenji » Fri Aug 17, 2012 1:09 am

TLS so elitist

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rickgrimes69
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Re: T3 and t4 schools

Postby rickgrimes69 » Fri Aug 17, 2012 8:03 am

kenji wrote:TLS so elitist


I missed you.

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romothesavior
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Re: T3 and t4 schools

Postby romothesavior » Fri Aug 17, 2012 8:54 am

kenji wrote:TLS so elitist

lulz




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