Higher Ranking is not always better

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josemnz83
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Higher Ranking is not always better

Postby josemnz83 » Sun Aug 05, 2012 12:58 pm

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Last edited by josemnz83 on Sun Aug 05, 2012 8:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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smaug_
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Re: Higher Ranking is not always better

Postby smaug_ » Sun Aug 05, 2012 1:02 pm

Why do you want a law degree?

ambiTTTTion
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Re: Higher Ranking is not always better

Postby ambiTTTTion » Sun Aug 05, 2012 1:13 pm

UH and its not even close.

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Richie Tenenbaum
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Re: Higher Ranking is not always better

Postby Richie Tenenbaum » Sun Aug 05, 2012 1:22 pm

1) Job prospects are better at UH, as compared to St. Mary's. Wall Street Journal is just wrong and most likely operating off the schools' self-reported data, which can be highly misleading.

2) If you want a biglaw job, none of these schools should be options. (Well, UH might not be the worst option if you had a significant to full ride.)

3) If you don't want biglaw, what do you want? Realize legal world has a bidmodal distribution when it comes to salaries. (You got biglaw at 160K and most other things between 40-60K, with a spattering of stuff in between.)

4) Top 25% will not get you biglaw from any of these schools. UH gives you the best shot, and then it's probably around top 10% to be competitive? Others should chime in and give more info about this though. Keep in mind that you run a significant risk at all of these schools of 1) not finding a legal job at all or 2) not finding a legal job better than the job you would be leaving.

Why are you going to law school? What's your LSAT score? Have you considered retaking? UH is currently the best option you have, but you could drastically improve your options (either by scholarship money or increased job opportunities by going to UT or a T14).

josemnz83
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Re: Higher Ranking is not always better

Postby josemnz83 » Sun Aug 05, 2012 1:24 pm

I want to get law degree to practice immigration law. I could keep my job and do law part time basis. I also get 3 months off during the summer from my full time job so I could supplement my income practicing immigration law. Once I establish a reputation I could do it full time.

UH does have a good immigration law reputation so that is a + for the school.

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kalvano
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Re: Higher Ranking is not always better

Postby kalvano » Sun Aug 05, 2012 2:02 pm

josemnz83 wrote:I could keep my job and do law part time basis.



This should turn out well.

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hookem7
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Re: Higher Ranking is not always better

Postby hookem7 » Sun Aug 05, 2012 2:19 pm

If you want to keep your job, I'm presuming you would need to stay in whatever city you live in right now?

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Richie Tenenbaum
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Re: Higher Ranking is not always better

Postby Richie Tenenbaum » Sun Aug 05, 2012 2:41 pm

josemnz83 wrote:I want to get law degree to practice immigration law. I could keep my job and do law part time basis. I also get 3 months off during the summer from my full time job so I could supplement my income practicing immigration law. Once I establish a reputation I could do it full time.

UH does have a good immigration law reputation so that is a + for the school.


What do you mean by "practice immigration law"? Hang up your own shingle? If so, that's very hard to do straight out of law school, and it will require a lot of money for start up (plus expect to be in the red for at least the first year or two or three, just like you would with other businesses). Trying to do this part time does not seem realistic at all. You will not build a book of business by only being open 3 months of the year.

If you mean you will work for a small immigration firm, that is most likely not an option either part time. Most legal jobs are full time jobs--finding a part-time one is going to be extremely difficulty. (Unless you aspire to be doing doc review work, that can be by contract but I don't know anyone who actually aspires for that.)

I would think more about why you think it's necessary for you to go to law school. It might not be.

josemnz83
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Re: Higher Ranking is not always better

Postby josemnz83 » Sun Aug 05, 2012 2:57 pm

First of all thanks for the replies. I appreciate everyone's point of view when respectful. I consider myself to be intelligent and is why am weighing all of my options. I will be taking the LSAT this October. I'm about to take a PT by the way :mrgreen:

The reason I want to go to law school is so that I can practice immigration law. I work in education (hence the 3 months off each year). I love my job but want something more intellectually challenging. If I were to go to St. Mary's (in San Antonio), I would seek employment there first. I have a great resume and in fact just turned down 6 job offers for teacher specialist positions (about 60k also) so I'm confident I could get a job in the SA school district.

I could study part time in their evening program. If I stay here in Houston, I would do the same thing, except that I would continue living with my girlfriend.

PLEASE NOTE THAT ALL OF THESE ARE BACK UP PLANS. OF COURSE I'M GOING TO GO TO LAW SCHOOL AND WORK MY ASS OFF AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE. Every law school applicant thinks/believes this before matriculating into law school. However only 25% of students are able to be at the top. I want to have a back up strategy in case I don't get a job at a firm.

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BallHog
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Re: Higher Ranking is not always better

Postby BallHog » Sun Aug 05, 2012 3:59 pm

josemnz83 wrote:However only 25% of students are able to be at the top.

You shouldn't think of it like that. 25% of the incoming class will be at the top. At orientation, no one has earned that spot. You gotta go get it and want it more than the rest!

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vpintz
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Re: Higher Ranking is not always better

Postby vpintz » Sun Aug 05, 2012 4:50 pm

BallHog wrote:
josemnz83 wrote:However only 25% of students are able to be at the top.

You shouldn't think of it like that. 25% of the incoming class will be at the top. At orientation, no one has earned that spot. You gotta go get it and want it more than the rest!

lol just lol

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sambeber
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Re: Higher Ranking is not always better

Postby sambeber » Sun Aug 05, 2012 5:00 pm

vpintz wrote:
BallHog wrote:
josemnz83 wrote:However only 25% of students are able to be at the top.

You shouldn't think of it like that. 25% of the incoming class will be at the top. At orientation, no one has earned that spot. You gotta go get it and want it more than the rest!

lol just lol


Seriously. "You gotta ... want it more than the rest!" Is that a joke? Ballhog -- YOU shouldn't think of it like that.

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BallHog
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Re: Higher Ranking is not always better

Postby BallHog » Sun Aug 05, 2012 5:09 pm

Basically my point was top 25% is there for the taking and no one has an innate right to it, so to cast doubt in your own ability to achieve that ranking is shooting yourself in the foot.


Simple motivational words... guess i'll go crawl into my hole again...

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vpintz
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Re: Higher Ranking is not always better

Postby vpintz » Sun Aug 05, 2012 5:20 pm

BallHog wrote:Basically my point was top 25% is there for the taking and no one has an innate right to it, so to cast doubt in your own ability to achieve that ranking is shooting yourself in the foot.


Simple motivational words... guess i'll go crawl into my hole again...

again...lol just lol

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BallHog
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Re: Higher Ranking is not always better

Postby BallHog » Sun Aug 05, 2012 5:26 pm

vpintz wrote:
BallHog wrote:Basically my point was top 25% is there for the taking and no one has an innate right to it, so to cast doubt in your own ability to achieve that ranking is shooting yourself in the foot.


Simple motivational words... guess i'll go crawl into my hole again...

again...lol just lol


Alright, care to explain?

josemnz83
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Re: Higher Ranking is not always better

Postby josemnz83 » Sun Aug 05, 2012 5:37 pm

I'm in the middle of taking PT 56. Just checked in to see how conversation was going :mrgreen:

I agree Ballhog that one should aim to achieve greatness but one should also have a backup plan. Fact is that most of us go into law school so that we can get a job upon graduation and statistics show that such prospects are low for both T1 and T4 schools. They also show that there are some T4 schools who have (for a myriad of reasons: location, less competitiion, etc) better overall prospects than some T1 schools.

See Wall Street Journal Article below:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 58142.html

timbs4339
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Re: Higher Ranking is not always better

Postby timbs4339 » Sun Aug 05, 2012 5:50 pm

You should not go to law school to hope to practice part-time. Clients and matters do not go away after three months and may demand time during the workday during the school year. You are doing both clients and your kids a huge disservice.

ambiTTTTion
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Re: Higher Ranking is not always better

Postby ambiTTTTion » Sun Aug 05, 2012 5:53 pm

josemnz83 wrote:I'm in the middle of taking PT 56. Just checked in to see how conversation was going :mrgreen:

I agree Ballhog that one should aim to achieve greatness but one should also have a backup plan. Fact is that most of us go into law school so that we can get a job upon graduation and statistics show that such prospects are low for both T1 and T4 schools. They also show that there are some T4 schools who have (for a myriad of reasons: location, less competitiion, etc) better overall prospects than some T1 schools.

See Wall Street Journal Article below:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 58142.html


By using your logic and that of the WSJ article, do you think that St. Mary's has "better overall prospects" than UT? I hope you see the issue of using these statistics that someone in this thread has already pointed out are likely self-reported by the schools and thus very unreliable.

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kalvano
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Re: Higher Ranking is not always better

Postby kalvano » Sun Aug 05, 2012 5:56 pm

Flame. No one in their right mind thinks you can be a part-time lawyer. And no teacher thinks they can adequately teach on a full-time basis and give the kids the attention they require AND commit to night school.

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Mce252
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Re: Higher Ranking is not always better

Postby Mce252 » Sun Aug 05, 2012 6:04 pm

I'm a full time student at South Texas. I'm near the top of my class and have been able to secure big law interviews. I don't know how the rest of the class fares, but I know the employment statistics overall are not pretty.

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Nova
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Re: Higher Ranking is not always better

Postby Nova » Sun Aug 05, 2012 6:11 pm

ambiTTTTion wrote:
josemnz83 wrote:I'm in the middle of taking PT 56. Just checked in to see how conversation was going :mrgreen:

I agree Ballhog that one should aim to achieve greatness but one should also have a backup plan. Fact is that most of us go into law school so that we can get a job upon graduation and statistics show that such prospects are low for both T1 and T4 schools. They also show that there are some T4 schools who have (for a myriad of reasons: location, less competitiion, etc) better overall prospects than some T1 schools.

See Wall Street Journal Article below:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 58142.html


By using your logic and that of the WSJ article, do you think that St. Mary's has "better overall prospects" than UT? I hope you see the issue of using these statistics that someone in this thread has already pointed out are likely self-reported by the schools and thus very unreliable.


Obviously the calibar of jobs available to UT grads are in a different leauge than StM grads. The numbers given in the article are not unreliable though. They are the same as the data on LST.

LST; StM wrote:•78.3% of graduates were known to be employed in long-term, full-time legal jobs. This figure includes no school-funded jobs..
•88% graduates were employed in long-term jobs.
•88.4% graduates were employed in full-time jobs.

josemnz83
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Re: Higher Ranking is not always better

Postby josemnz83 » Sun Aug 05, 2012 7:21 pm

I actually know plenty of UT and SMU grads who are unemployed. The statistics presented in the WSJ, as Nova points out, are not any more unreliable than those on T1 school websites.

As for been able to go to law school part time and teaching: its certainly doable. There are other professionals with even more demanding careers who attend school part time.

Anyway I just finished taking PT 56 and scored a 163!!!!!! :mrgreen: This is the highest score for me thus far!

timbs4339
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Re: Higher Ranking is not always better

Postby timbs4339 » Sun Aug 05, 2012 8:20 pm

josemnz83 wrote:I actually know plenty of UT and SMU grads who are unemployed. The statistics presented in the WSJ, as Nova points out, are not any more unreliable than those on T1 school websites.

As for been able to go to law school part time and teaching: its certainly doable. There are other professionals with even more demanding careers who attend school part time.

Anyway I just finished taking PT 56 and scored a 163!!!!!! :mrgreen: This is the highest score for me thus far!


Going to school and working is one thing. One can always come before the other. If you blow off class to stay at work it only hurts you.

But working two jobs at once, where both could require you to devote your full time to a group of people is a different story. Client matters are not going to neatly arrange themselves around your work schedule. If you work as a legal researcher part-time that might be the way to do it, but you cannot represent clients.

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LaMuSayonga
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Re: Higher Ranking is not always better

Postby LaMuSayonga » Sun Aug 05, 2012 8:44 pm

timbs4339 wrote:
josemnz83 wrote:I actually know plenty of UT and SMU grads who are unemployed. The statistics presented in the WSJ, as Nova points out, are not any more unreliable than those on T1 school websites.

As for been able to go to law school part time and teaching: its certainly doable. There are other professionals with even more demanding careers who attend school part time.

Anyway I just finished taking PT 56 and scored a 163!!!!!! :mrgreen: This is the highest score for me thus far!


Going to school and working is one thing. One can always come before the other. If you blow off class to stay at work it only hurts you.

But working two jobs at once, where both could require you to devote your full time to a group of people is a different story. Client matters are not going to neatly arrange themselves around your work schedule. If you work as a legal researcher part-time that might be the way to do it, but you cannot represent clients.


From what I can tell, OP plans on teaching while enrolling as a part-time student, not teaching and practicing law at the same time. I assume he will choose either law or education for a full-time career after law school, not working in both fields simultaneously. Or maybe my RC skills are garbage and I'm completely misunderstanding OP's intentions.

OP, if I were you, I would choose UH. St. Mary's does have pretty good job stats for a T4, but I get the sense that much better job options are available to UH grads (at least those at or near the top of the class). Then again, I'm not exactly familiar with the market for immigration lawyers. If your grades aren't stellar after your first year, you can always drop out and resume your education career full-time.

timbs4339
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Re: Higher Ranking is not always better

Postby timbs4339 » Sun Aug 05, 2012 9:18 pm

LaMuSayonga wrote:
timbs4339 wrote:
josemnz83 wrote:I actually know plenty of UT and SMU grads who are unemployed. The statistics presented in the WSJ, as Nova points out, are not any more unreliable than those on T1 school websites.

As for been able to go to law school part time and teaching: its certainly doable. There are other professionals with even more demanding careers who attend school part time.

Anyway I just finished taking PT 56 and scored a 163!!!!!! :mrgreen: This is the highest score for me thus far!


Going to school and working is one thing. One can always come before the other. If you blow off class to stay at work it only hurts you.

But working two jobs at once, where both could require you to devote your full time to a group of people is a different story. Client matters are not going to neatly arrange themselves around your work schedule. If you work as a legal researcher part-time that might be the way to do it, but you cannot represent clients.


From what I can tell, OP plans on teaching while enrolling as a part-time student, not teaching and practicing law at the same time. I assume he will choose either law or education for a full-time career after law school, not working in both fields simultaneously. Or maybe my RC skills are garbage and I'm completely misunderstanding OP's intentions.

OP, if I were you, I would choose UH. St. Mary's does have pretty good job stats for a T4, but I get the sense that much better job options are available to UH grads (at least those at or near the top of the class). Then again, I'm not exactly familiar with the market for immigration lawyers. If your grades aren't stellar after your first year, you can always drop out and resume your education career full-time.


OP wrote:I want to get law degree to practice immigration law. I could keep my job and do law part time basis. I also get 3 months off during the summer from my full time job so I could supplement my income practicing immigration law. Once I establish a reputation I could do it full time.

UH does have a good immigration law reputation so that is a + for the school.




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