Class sizes and medians (c/o 2015) Forum

[3ThrowAway99]

If you have info on class size for your school (class of 2014 to class of 2015 change) or the change in median (class of 2014 to class of 2015) post in this thread. I've been told that Wake Forest kept its medians of the past, but since the wording on this is vague (not specific to class of 2012) i'm guessing there may have been some drop.

***IF YOU WOULD PREFER NOT TO POST NUMBERS IN THIS THREAD FEEL FREE TO PM THEM TO ME INSTEAD***


Total students enrolled
class of 2015/2014


Wake Forest 126/185 (-59)
Vanderbilt 173/193 (-20)
U. Minnesota ~220/245 (~-25)
UC Davis 191/192 (-1)
Hamline ~134/~200 (~-66)
St. Thomas ~150/~150 (no change)
Walter Mitchell 260/309 (-49)
Arizona St. 152/171 (-19)
U. Arizona 125/158 (-33)
U. Texas 300/375 (-75)
UC Hastings 317/414 (-97)
Penn State 170/220 (-50)
WUSTL 203/242 (-39)
UGA 189/225 (-36)
George Mason 147/186 (-39)
George Washington 400/474 (-74)
Valapraiso 163/218 (-55)
Notre Dame 178/183 (-5)
William & Mary 196/217 (-21)
NYU 453/450 (+3)
Seattle University 287/322 (-35)
Case Western 160/195 (-35)
Cooley law school reportedly down several hundred (not included in overall figure)
UVA 358/357 (+1)
U. Kansas 141/141 (0)
Indiana 202/240 (-38)
U. Alabama 155/165 (-10)
USC 188/199 (-11)
Nebraska 136/128 (+8)
Gonzaga smaller class size
University of Houston 216/252 (-48)
Loyola Chicago 283/274 (+9)
BU 211/242 (-31)
CU 153/164 (-11)
Yale 203/205 (-2)
SUNY Buffalo 205/185 (+30)
Wayne state 148/181 (-33)
Michigan St. 298/307 (-9)
U. Michigan 345/359 (-14)
Rutgers-Newark 226/224 (+2)
BC 246/268(-22)
St. Johns 270/293(-23)
U. Chicago 184/195(-11)
Yale 203/205(-2)
Columbia 368/397(-29)
U. Conn 151/181(-30)
Albany 202/233(-31)
UNC 241/248(-7)
Oregon 147/183(-36)
Gonzaga 132/176(-44)
Syracuse 245/255(-10)
Marquette 226/213(+13)
Willamette 136/141(-5)
Vermont 172/151(+21)
Louisville 140/148(+8)
Temple 253/270(-13)
USD 247/300(-53)
Fordham 433/479(-46)
Nova S.eastern 380/354(+26)
Pitt 212/230(-18)
Hawaii 86/116(-30)
Seton Hall 206/266(-60)
Florida State: 187/200 (-13)
Stetson 300/344 (-44)
Oklahoma City 177/201 (-24)
Santa Clara 243/287 (-44)
UCLA 309/320 (-11)
LSU ~200/236(-36)
Duke 208/211 (-3)
New England Law 452/385(+67)

OVERALL (~1,477 fewer students at the above 69 schools).

Medians (LSAT-with change in parentheses; GPA-with change in parentheses)

Wake Forest (#44): 163(0), 3.66(+.06)*** props to WFU for recruiting a smaller class and improving its stats in this law school market.
Vandy (#16): 169 (0), 3.7 (-.03)
UC Davis (#29): 163 (-1), 3.6 (-.03)
University of Georgia (#34): 164 (-1), 3.67 (+.08)
George Mason (#39): 163 (-1), 3.7 (-.02)
U Alabama 165 (0), 3.83 (0)
William & Mary 164 (-1), 3.74 (+.01)
Virginia (#7): 170 (0), 3.87 (+.01)
U. Kansas 157 (0), 3.51 (0)
Indiana U. 164 (-2), 3.8
USC (#18): 167 (0), 3.73 (+.04),
Nebraska (#89): 158 (+1), 3.64 (+.13)
Gonzaga (#113): 155 (0), 3.27 (-.06)
University of Houston 161 (0), 3.47 (+.05)
Berkeley 167 (0), 3.81 (+.02)
CU 164 (0), 3.67 (+.03)
SUNY Buffalo 156 (-1), 3.51 (-.06)
Cornell 167 (-1), 3.68 (+.05)
Wayne State 156 (-1), 3.38 (-.01)
WUSTL 166 (-2), 3.68 (-.02)
UCLA 168, 3.78
BU 166(-1), 3.75(+.03)
BC 164(-1), 3.61(-.05)
Michigan State 157(0), 3.54(0)
Yale 173, 3.9
Columbia 172, 3.71
Charleston 152(0), 3.21(+.08)
UConn 159(0), 3.45(0)
Albany 152(-1), 3.31(0)
UNC 162(-1), 3.5(-.01)
Oregon 158(-1), 3.33(-.06)
Gonzaga 155(0), 3.27(-.06)
Kentucky 158(-1), 3.51(-.06)
Syracuse 153(-2), 3.28(-.08)
Florida 162(0), 3.59(-.05)
Drake 155(-1), 3.30(-.1)
Marquette 155(0), 3.4(+.05)
Willamette 153(-2), 3.18(+.03)
Vermont 153(-1), 3.22(-.04)
Louisville 156(0), 3.44(+.02)
Temple 161(+1), 3.42(+.03)
San Diego 160(0), 3.5(+.07)
Nova S.eastern 150(0), 3.14(-.08)
Hofstra 157(-2), 3.27(-.05)
Seton Hall 158(-1), 3.5(no change)
UCLA (#15): 168 (0), 3.78 (0),
UC Davis (#29): 163 (-1), 3.6 (-.03)
UC Hastings (#44): 162 (0), 3.59 (-.01)
New England law 149(-3), 3.06(-.13)

PLEASE OP, alphabetize this list, or merge it with the thread containing the same (but more complete) information that is ordered by ranking and much easier to read.

This is potentially useful information, but the lack of organization severely compromises its usefulness IMO.

[Kurst]

PLEASE OP, alphabetize this list, or merge it with the thread containing the same (but more complete) information that is ordered by ranking and much easier to read.

This is potentially useful information, but the lack of organization severely compromises its usefulness IMO.

Agreed, this is a jumbled mess. I tried to organize it better here: http://top-law-schools.com/forums/viewt ... 5#p6028584

[North]

PLEASE OP, alphabetize this list, or merge it with the thread containing the same (but more complete) information that is ordered by ranking and much easier to read.

This is potentially useful information, but the lack of organization severely compromises its usefulness IMO.

This was (rightly) suggested many pages ago. OP's response was something along the lines of "Go make your own thread if you don't like how I'm doing mine, you fucking beggar-tryna be-chooser proles."

[florida1949]

MAJOR drop in October lsat takers. A drop of 16.4% from the prior year.

October 2011 45,169
October 2012 37,780

http://www.lsac.org/lsacresources/data/ ... stered.asp

AWWWW YEAH

[ajr]

MAJOR drop in October lsat takers. A drop of 16.4% from the prior year.

October 2011 45,169
October 2012 37,780

http://www.lsac.org/lsacresources/data/ ... stered.asp

AWWWW YEAH

Well done, TLS, in successfully discouraging people from going to law school. Oh wait, but TLS encourages people to take the LSAT over and over again. Sorry.

[NoodleyOne]

MAJOR drop in October lsat takers. A drop of 16.4% from the prior year.

October 2011 45,169
October 2012 37,780

http://www.lsac.org/lsacresources/data/ ... stered.asp

AWWWW YEAH

Well done, TLS, in successfully discouraging people from going to law school. Oh wait, but TLS encourages people to take the LSAT over and over again. Sorry.

If you're stupid enough to go to law school, you may as well give yourself as good a shot as possible.

[DoctorShawHi]

Illinois dean is taking questions either in this forum or the admissions one

didnt seem to last long.

[hung jury]

Mean drop from 2011 to 2012 was about 0.65 LSAT points from the looks of it:

http://www.thefacultylounge.org/2012/11 ... ctors.html

[hume85]

PLEASE OP, alphabetize this list, or merge it with the thread containing the same (but more complete) information that is ordered by ranking and much easier to read.

This is potentially useful information, but the lack of organization severely compromises its usefulness IMO.

This was (rightly) suggested many pages ago. OP's response was something along the lines of "Go make your own thread if you don't like how I'm doing mine, you fucking beggar-tryna be-chooser proles."

[sinfiery]

Anyone know when schools have to release medians by? (Looking at you, H and S)

[LSATSCORES2012]

Anyone know when schools have to release medians by? (Looking at you, H and S)

Stanford's new medians are 170/3.86.

[sinfiery]

Anyone know when schools have to release medians by? (Looking at you, H and S)

Stanford's new medians are 170/3.86.

Thank you.

GPA increased

[2014]

Anyone know when schools have to release medians by? (Looking at you, H and S)

Stanford's new medians are 170/3.86.

Chicago has better medians than Stanford still, proposing new tiers "HYChi" "SCN"

[twenty]

I thought Stanford's median GPA was 3.88 last year?

Oh well. Thanks for the update. :)

[sinfiery]

I thought Stanford's median GPA was 3.88 last year?

Oh well. Thanks for the update.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... nUnc#gid=0

This shows 3.85. But also shows 3.85 for this year too so I dunno.

[LSATSCORES2012]

I thought Stanford's median GPA was 3.88 last year?

Oh well. Thanks for the update.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... nUnc#gid=0

This shows 3.85. But also shows 3.85 for this year too so I dunno.

I'm the one who put 3.85 in there... but it must have been 3.86 because I remember it was either 3.85 or 3.86 and it was an increase from last year.

At least that's what they said when I called, IIRC.

[sinfiery]

I thought Stanford's median GPA was 3.88 last year?

Oh well. Thanks for the update.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... nUnc#gid=0

This shows 3.85. But also shows 3.85 for this year too so I dunno.

I'm the one who put 3.85 in there... but it must have been 3.86 because I remember it was either 3.85 or 3.86 and it was an increase from last year.

At least that's what they said when I called, IIRC.

I tried googling but I couldn't find any info on it

Also the H 2014 median on the docs is 3.85 but googling has shown 3.89? i think. Confusing still.

edit: http://www.admissionsdean.com/law_schoo ... admissions

[LSATSCORES2012]

I thought Stanford's median GPA was 3.88 last year?

Oh well. Thanks for the update.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... nUnc#gid=0

This shows 3.85. But also shows 3.85 for this year too so I dunno.

I'm the one who put 3.85 in there... but it must have been 3.86 because I remember it was either 3.85 or 3.86 and it was an increase from last year.

At least that's what they said when I called, IIRC.

I tried googling but I couldn't find any info on it

Also the H 2014 median on the docs is 3.85 but googling has shown 3.89? i think. Confusing still.

edit: http://www.admissionsdean.com/law_schoo ... admissions

Yea, LSAC agrees with you: https://officialguide.lsac.org/release/ ... fault.aspx

If you see anything else wrong, feel free to change it - the document is publicly editable (though I'm thinking about changing that because people keep, presumably accidentally, messing up the order.)

[otnemem]

Class size over the years
Note that for a given year, say 2010-2011, the JD awarded number is for the spring of the earlier year (2010). (I think)

So going forward, class sizes should look something like this;

JDs awarded
2007: 43,518
2008: 43,588
2009: 44,004
2010: 44,258
2011: 44,495
2012: ~46,500*
2013: ~47,200*
2014: ~43,800*
2015: ~40,300*#

* assuming 10% attrition
# assuming 8% decrease in C/O 2015 entering size from C/O 2014

[Wakelaw15]

Class size over the years
Note that for a given year, say 2010-2011, the JD awarded number is for the spring of the earlier year (2010).

JDs awarded
2007: 43,518
2008: 43,588
2009: 44,004
2010: 44,258
2011: 44,495
2012: ~46,500*
2013: ~47,200*
2014: ~43,800*
2015: ~40,300*#

* assuming 10% attrition
# assuming 8% decrease in C/O 2015 entering size from C/O 2014

I wonder how the law market will deal with the fact that the # of graduates is down (though only about 15% from the peak of this year's graduating class), but there is a disproportionate number of graduates from really shitty schools. (there are some schools waaaaay down on the list, like Charlotte School of Law, where the enrollment is up).

[otnemem]

I wonder how the law market will deal with the fact that the # of graduates is down (though only about 15% from the peak of this year's graduating class), but there is a disproportionate number of graduates from really shitty schools. (there are some schools waaaaay down on the list, like Charlotte School of Law, where the enrollment is up).

Don't worry, there will still be many more graduates than full time JD required positions.

[3ThrowAway99]

Organize this effing shit OP (the OP post). Alphabetize, or don't bother going to law school.

[altoid99]

I just don't understand how some schools have yet to release class profiles for the fall 2012 entering class already. After the scandals at Villanova and Illinois you'd think schools would be more open about their numbers. Sigh

[2014]

I just don't understand how some schools have yet to release class profiles for the fall 2012 entering class already. After the scandals at Villanova and Illinois you'd think schools would be more open about their numbers. Sigh

Why give out the info a second early and risk someone going on a fact checking crusade against you? Better to keep that shit on lock down, double check it, and release it only when you have to.

I personally would be transparent, but I can see the above being the logic followed.

[altoid99]

I just don't understand how some schools have yet to release class profiles for the fall 2012 entering class already. After the scandals at Villanova and Illinois you'd think schools would be more open about their numbers. Sigh

Why give out the info a second early and risk someone going on a fact checking crusade against you? Better to keep that shit on lock down, double check it, and release it only when you have to.

I personally would be transparent, but I can see the above being the logic followed.

I understand that, but when you're one of only a handful of schools to not have released numbers I think it looks suspect as opposed to being careful.