NYU (presumably sticker) vs Duke (1/3 scholarship) Forum

[vvman2000]

Hey Everyone,

Long time lurker looking for some help.

Just got off the waitlist at NYU, and need to make a decision quickly. I don't have financial aid info yet, but since it's so late in the game, I'm assuming there won't be much. I deposited at Duke several months ago after they gave me a 1/3rd tuition scholarship.

I'm looking to go into public service / government / congressional stuff after law school, so I'm obviously thrilled at getting into NYU! But considering my career plans, cost is a huge consideration...LRAP appears to be somewhat better at NYU but I'm not sure I should make a decision based on that. NYU is a big name for public interest, but is there a huge difference between the two schools when it comes to careers in government / legislative stuff?

If I manage to get a similar amount of money at NYU, I'm pretty sure I would take it. I guess the big question for me is: is NYU worth it at sticker vs a good size scholarship at Duke?

Thanks a lot!!

[booboo]

What is a 1/3 scholarship to Duke? 45k? 60k?

I'd say that if you're legitimately interested in PI and would like a decent fallback chance at NYC BigLaw, NYU is the way to go. NYU really does have unparalleled resources when it comes to PI stuff. I don't know if you would get a leg up in actual hiring practices, but being at NYU could expose you to more opportunities to a lot of PI. NYU takes its PI slant very seriously, and you can tell that the office is well organized, probably beyond that of any other T14.

[Yukos]

At the very least, tell Duke about the NYU offer and try to negotiate. Then take that offer back to NYU.

As a 0L I can't offer much perspective on Duke vs. NYU for PI though.

[BruceWayne]

Public interest (excluding DOJ/SEC) is about having a demonstrated interest (through internships, clinics, probono, coursework etc.) and connecting with people in the PI community you are interested in working in. Thus you should look at the physical location of the PI jobs you are interested in working in. If one school allows you to be in the same area as where you want to work then go there (or if one of the schools is particularly strong in the region you want to work i.e Duke if you want to work in the Southeast or I assume NYU if you want to work in say Delaware or Boston). If not then go to Duke.

If you're talking about DOJ etc. they care about grade, grades, and whether you go to HYS. That means go to the cheaper school--Duke.

[mr.hands]

Barring a similar amount from NYU, go with Duke

[rickgrimes69]

Had this exact choice; Duke all the way. 1/3 scholly plus lower COL equals about $80,000 in savings over NYU. NYU's a great school but I don't feel like it's employment prospects are $80,000 better. Plus, paying $270,000 for any school outside of HYS is insane ITE. That being said, I've got Minneapolis as a backup market, so if you're NYC or bust you may want to roll the dice at NYU.

[NedStark12]

.

[top30man]

Had this exact choice; Duke all the way. 1/3 scholly plus lower COL equals about $80,000 in savings over NYU. NYU's a great school but I don't feel like it's employment prospects are $80,000 better. Plus, paying $270,000 for any school outside of HYS is insane ITE. That being said, I've got Minneapolis as a backup market, so if you're NYC or bust you may want to roll the dice at NYU.

Agreed. Though NYU would not be a bad call.

[chasgoose]

Public interest (excluding DOJ/SEC) is about having a demonstrated interest (through internships, clinics, probono, coursework etc.) and connecting with people in the PI community you are interested in working in. Thus you should look at the physical location of the PI jobs you are interested in working in. If one school allows you to be in the same area as where you want to work then go there (or if one of the schools is particularly strong in the region you want to work i.e Duke if you want to work in the Southeast or I assume NYU if you want to work in say Delaware or Boston). If not then go to Duke.

If you're talking about DOJ etc. they care about grade, grades, and whether you go to HYS. That means go to the cheaper school--Duke.

This is totally correct. I would say that if OP wants to do non-DOJ PI, and doesn't really care about location that probably does tip the scales a bit in NYU's favor. Not only are there far more PI opportunities in the greater NYC area than there are in the Research Triangle, but NYU goes to great lengths to make sure it's students are given ample opportunities to connect with the PI community. It got to the point where I felt bombarded with PI networking opportunities.

[noleknight16]

I like Duke a lot so Duke is my vote

[handsonthewheel]

If you are 100% set on public interest, you will be relying on the schools LRAP anyhow, or the government's forgiveness and loan payment reduction.

So, if you are absolutely sure about that, then your loan load really doesn't matter and you'd be best served by going to the school that gives you the best chances.

[CanadianWolf]

Based on the limited information shared by the OP, Duke is the safer & better choice, in my opinion.

[vvman2000]

thanks for all the responses guys. to get more info out there, duke is offering 54k, and nyu is offering nothing at all. i'll try to negotiate but i dont know how far that would go. i'm absolutely committed to public service, which makes this tough - the scholarship matters, but nyu's resources do too.

what makes this slightly more complicated is that my public service interests revolve more around capitol hill and government. does either school have an advantage when it comes to DC / political jobs? can't quite figure that out.

thanks again for all of your input!!

[NedStark12]

thanks for all the responses guys. to get more info out there, duke is offering 54k, and nyu is offering nothing at all. i'll try to negotiate but i dont know how far that would go. i'm absolutely committed to public service, which makes this tough - the scholarship matters, but nyu's resources do too.

what makes this slightly more complicated is that my public service interests revolve more around capitol hill and government. does either school have an advantage when it comes to DC / political jobs? can't quite figure that out.

thanks again for all of your input!!

Obviously both schools have national placement, and someone correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the consensus: NYU feeds more into NY, Duke feeds more into DC? Could it be due to geographical location? Self-selection?

[rickgrimes69]

I'd argue that Duke has a bit more national placement but largely due to self-selection. NYC is the target market for a majority of grads coming out of NYU, whereas relatively few Duke grads are targeting NC (IIRC about 20% stay in NC). That takes out a big chunk of the class, and combined with Duke's tiny class size, means there won't be much competition from fellow grads for other regions.

[bdubs]

what makes this slightly more complicated is that my public service interests revolve more around capitol hill and government. does either school have an advantage when it comes to DC / political jobs? can't quite figure that out.

What kind of "public service" are you interested in?

Duke probably places a larger % of its class in DC. I would take Duke if you're looking for something that it is about showing dedication to a cause.

If you're looking for something which is highly competitive (DOJ, White House OLC, etc...) then NYU will give you a slight edge. You should be prepared for disappointment, however, because 80% of the class doesn't even get considered for these jobs at either school. You need to consider your back up plan if your goals fall into this category.

[JamMasterJ]

I would not pay 195K for Duke. If you have to go into that level of debt, I'd rather rely on NYUs job prospects and LRAP. If the difference were greater, or if it was 100K debt vs 175K debt, I'd lean the other way, but since you'd be going into a shit-ton of debt either way, I'd go NYU.

[detljgh]

Public interest (excluding DOJ/SEC) is about having a demonstrated interest (through internships, clinics, probono, coursework etc.) and connecting with people in the PI community you are interested in working in. Thus you should look at the physical location of the PI jobs you are interested in working in. If one school allows you to be in the same area as where you want to work then go there (or if one of the schools is particularly strong in the region you want to work i.e Duke if you want to work in the Southeast or I assume NYU if you want to work in say Delaware or Boston). If not then go to Duke.

If you're talking about DOJ etc. they care about grade, grades, and whether you go to HYS. That means go to the cheaper school--Duke.

The last part is not correct. I did SLIP in ATR and the class was quite diverse. There was a duke student, a UVA student, 3 or 4 Michigan students, one from Georgetown, and someone from a lower tier 3. HYS sent one student combined to ATR I believe. Public interest and interest in the subject matter are important.

[mr.hands]

I would not pay 195K for Duke. If you have to go into that level of debt, I'd rather rely on NYUs job prospects and LRAP. If the difference were greater, or if it was 100K debt vs 175K debt, I'd lean the other way, but since you'd be going into a shit-ton of debt either way, I'd go NYU.

Duke NLJ numbers are higher than NYU's. NYU has an edge in top vault firms but that's not really an issue if paying off debt is the goal, since you'll most likey be making market pay if you land biglaw.

Also, you aren't accounting for the enormous COL difference.

[rickgrimes69]

I would not pay 195K for Duke. If you have to go into that level of debt, I'd rather rely on NYUs job prospects and LRAP. If the difference were greater, or if it was 100K debt vs 175K debt, I'd lean the other way, but since you'd be going into a shit-ton of debt either way, I'd go NYU.

That might make sense if NYU's large firm placement was in any way demonstrably better than Duke's, but it really isn't. We're talking about very small margins here (Duke actually placed slightly better into firms of 100+, 45% vs 43.2% for C/O 2011). NYU places better in PI to be sure, but Duke has a slight edge for clerkships, and it doesn't sound like OP is certain with what he wants to do. I don't think there's really any way the numbers justify the extra $80k for NYU.

[JamMasterJ]

I would not pay 195K for Duke. If you have to go into that level of debt, I'd rather rely on NYUs job prospects and LRAP. If the difference were greater, or if it was 100K debt vs 175K debt, I'd lean the other way, but since you'd be going into a shit-ton of debt either way, I'd go NYU.

Duke NLJ numbers are higher than NYU's. NYU has an edge in top vault firms but that's not really an issue if paying off debt is the goal, since you'll most likey be making market pay if you land biglaw.

Also, you aren't accounting for the enormous COL difference.

1/3rd ride is about 47K. I accounted for about a 10K difference in COL. As far as placement into desirable jobs goes, it's really not that close. I mean, Duke's not bad, but there's a appreciable enough difference that when you're talking basically 200K in debt or more from either school, it's worth going with NYU

[lawyerwannabe]

Duke's COA is about $210k and NYU's COA is about $234k.

So with the scholarship of $54k mentioned by OP, Duke is $156k. That is $78k less than NYU. Taking interest into consideration, it could be much more.

While NYU is may have slightly better placement then Duke, the financial aspect of the decision makes the choice much easier IMO.

But if OP is truly interested in PI, then NYU's LARP is very attractive and the money differential is pretty much a non-issue. I just hope OP does not go into either school thinking a DC/Capitol Hill PI job is even close to a given. Those are often times are to get than BigLaw.

[mr.hands]

I would not pay 195K for Duke. If you have to go into that level of debt, I'd rather rely on NYUs job prospects and LRAP. If the difference were greater, or if it was 100K debt vs 175K debt, I'd lean the other way, but since you'd be going into a shit-ton of debt either way, I'd go NYU.

Duke NLJ numbers are higher than NYU's. NYU has an edge in top vault firms but that's not really an issue if paying off debt is the goal, since you'll most likey be making market pay if you land biglaw.

Also, you aren't accounting for the enormous COL difference.

1/3rd ride is about 47K. I accounted for about a 10K difference in COL. As far as placement into desirable jobs goes, it's really not that close. I mean, Duke's not bad, but there's a appreciable enough difference that when you're talking basically 200K in debt or more from either school, it's worth going with NYU

It's not really that close?!?! Are you kidding? Duke has better NLJ numbers and a higher percentage placing into federal clerkships. NYU employs more of its students in school funded "fellowships."

Again, NYU places a higher number in V10 firms but it's ludicrous to say that aren't that close.

Don't confuse rankings w/ placement.

(also lol at a 10k COL difference between duke and NYU)

[JamMasterJ]

Duke's COA is about $210k and NYU's COA is about $234k.

So with the scholarship of $54k mentioned by OP, Duke is $156k. That is $78k less than NYU. Taking interest into consideration, it could be much more.

While NYU is may have slightly better placement then Duke, the financial aspect of the decision makes the choice much easier IMO.

But if OP is truly interested in PI, then NYU's LARP is very attractive and the money differential is pretty much a non-issue. I just hope OP does not go into either school thinking a DC/Capitol Hill PI job is even close to a given. Those are often times are to get than BigLaw.

Lawschooltransparency has a different COA number for the CO 2015. My bad.

[JamMasterJ]

I would not pay 195K for Duke. If you have to go into that level of debt, I'd rather rely on NYUs job prospects and LRAP. If the difference were greater, or if it was 100K debt vs 175K debt, I'd lean the other way, but since you'd be going into a shit-ton of debt either way, I'd go NYU.

Duke NLJ numbers are higher than NYU's. NYU has an edge in top vault firms but that's not really an issue if paying off debt is the goal, since you'll most likey be making market pay if you land biglaw.

Also, you aren't accounting for the enormous COL difference.

1/3rd ride is about 47K. I accounted for about a 10K difference in COL. As far as placement into desirable jobs goes, it's really not that close. I mean, Duke's not bad, but there's a appreciable enough difference that when you're talking basically 200K in debt or more from either school, it's worth going with NYU

It's not really that close?!?! Are you kidding? Duke has better NLJ numbers and a higher percentage placing into federal clerkships. NYU employs more of its students in school funded "fellowships."

Again, NYU places a higher number in V10 firms but it's ludicrous to say that aren't that close.

Don't confuse rankings w/ placement.

(also lol at a 10k COL difference between duke and NYU)

79% of NYU's class got Fed Clerkship, PI, Govt, and firms over 100 attorneys.
64.8% of Duke's class got those same jobs.
About 7% more of NYU's class got school-funded jobs, so if you subtract that number from the difference, you still come out over 7% ahead. When we're talking over 175K in debt from either school, and the fact that we don't know how to categorize school-funded positions and don't know which category those jobs are counted in, it's pretty easy to see that there's an appreciable difference.