Fordham vs. Wake Forest ($$$)

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LawyerMan
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Fordham vs. Wake Forest ($$$)

Postby LawyerMan » Thu Jul 19, 2012 9:07 pm

Hello TLS,

I was just admitted off the wait-list at Fordham, but I have a situation. I have a 20k scholarship to Wake and my parents (WF alums) have graciously offered to pay for the rest - so I could leave Wake debt-free. I have no scholarship to Fordham and I would only receive help only for living expenses, the total COA would be around 150k (!!!!!). I can't see myself living in North Carolina, and working in New York has always been my dream.

Should I risk it and go to Fordham? Or just hustle at Wake, count my blessings, and figure a way to get to NYC after graduation?

Thanks in advance for the help.

LawyerMan
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Re: Fordham vs. Wake Forest ($$$)

Postby LawyerMan » Thu Jul 19, 2012 9:45 pm

Bump, anyone??

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JD Janitor
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Re: Fordham vs. Wake Forest ($$$)

Postby JD Janitor » Thu Jul 19, 2012 9:57 pm

Explain to your parents that, although wake is a great NC school, Fordham is much more inline with your interests. Give them all the stats. Inform them. And thenask them to help support your future at Fordham.

LawyerMan
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Re: Fordham vs. Wake Forest ($$$)

Postby LawyerMan » Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:24 pm

JD Janitor wrote:Explain to your parents that, although wake is a great NC school, Fordham is much more inline with your interests. Give them all the stats. Inform them. And thenask them to help support your future at Fordham.


Unfortunately, they aren't changing their mind.

Hutz_and_Goodman
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Re: Fordham vs. Wake Forest ($$$)

Postby Hutz_and_Goodman » Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:30 pm

LawyerMan wrote:
JD Janitor wrote:Explain to your parents that, although wake is a great NC school, Fordham is much more inline with your interests. Give them all the stats. Inform them. And thenask them to help support your future at Fordham.


Unfortunately, they aren't changing their mind.


If the bottom line choice is wake forest for free or Fordham at sticker, then it's not even close. Fordham is nowhere near worth that cost. Wfu is risky if you don't get at least top 20% (assuming you want big law) but not having the debt is huge.

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Nova
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Re: Fordham vs. Wake Forest ($$$)

Postby Nova » Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:36 pm

Since you dont want to live in NC, dont go to Wake. Dont go to Fordham at sticker either.

:|

Wake is your better option, but you cant expect NYC.

LawyerMan
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Re: Fordham vs. Wake Forest ($$$)

Postby LawyerMan » Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:38 pm

Do students with high grades at Wake have any reach up to New York? The school said only 40 percent of the students stay in-state after graduation - or is this more an effect of a large OOS population heading back home?

CanadianWolf
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Re: Fordham vs. Wake Forest ($$$)

Postby CanadianWolf » Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:40 pm

Based on these two options, WFU is the better choice. Hopefully, you'll do extremely well during your first year & be able to create other options.

LawyerMan
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Re: Fordham vs. Wake Forest ($$$)

Postby LawyerMan » Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:43 pm

Also, I don't know if this adds anything to the conversation but I'm not really interested in biglaw. I have no delusions of grandeur, small or mid-sized firm would work for me.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Fordham vs. Wake Forest ($$$)

Postby CanadianWolf » Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:45 pm

WFU can accomodate those goals--just not in NYC.

Hutz_and_Goodman
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Re: Fordham vs. Wake Forest ($$$)

Postby Hutz_and_Goodman » Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:48 pm

Given the information here, you shouldn't even think about Fordham. The question is WFU for free/waiting a year to retake and reapply/not go to law school. Law school will cost your parents upwards of 100k (even if it's free to you), and if you land in the bottom half of your class you have a good possibility of being unemployed at graduation. If you are happy with a small/mid sized firm, that is easier to get than big law, but there are a lot of graduates from schools ranked 20-50 who would take any firm job and can't find one. Basically, there is a non-trivial possibility that by graduation your parents will have gone from loving Wake to cursing it; however, if you do well in law school it will be the absolute best scenario for you because you will have no debt.

boom_cs
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Re: Fordham vs. Wake Forest ($$$)

Postby boom_cs » Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:17 am

I do not think that Wake reaches back to NYC very much unless you have some connections there and/or you have very good grades.

Also 40% staying in state at Wake is caused by a lot of OOS heading back home after law school

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Robespierre
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Re: Fordham vs. Wake Forest ($$$)

Postby Robespierre » Fri Jul 20, 2012 11:37 am

Taking on 150K debt for Fordham is extremely risky. The upside is working in NYC at a well-paying job. But look at the downside: If you graduate into unemployment or underemployment, you won't be able to make the payments of ~2K/month, and that could literally ruin your life.

Wake is highly unlikely to get you your dream of working in NYC. But the lack of any debt makes it a very safe choice. And whatever you earn, you can keep rather than handing it over to the debt collector.

Are you a riverboat gambler, or not?

P.S., Cardozo and Brooklyn are handing out big scholarships to anyone with the numbers to get into Fordham ... so why not one of those schools? You say your parents can cover COL; that would leave you with minimal debt and a degree that gives you a fighting chance for an NYC job.

Hutz_and_Goodman
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Re: Fordham vs. Wake Forest ($$$)

Postby Hutz_and_Goodman » Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:51 pm

Robespierre wrote:Taking on 150K debt for Fordham is extremely risky. The upside is working in NYC at a well-paying job. But look at the downside: If you graduate into unemployment or underemployment, you won't be able to make the payments of ~2K/month, and that could literally ruin your life.

Wake is highly unlikely to get you your dream of working in NYC. But the lack of any debt makes it a very safe choice. And whatever you earn, you can keep rather than handing it over to the debt collector.

Are you a riverboat gambler, or not?

P.S., Cardozo and Brooklyn are handing out big scholarships to anyone with the numbers to get into Fordham ... so why not one of those schools? You say your parents can cover COL; that would leave you with minimal debt and a degree that gives you a fighting chance for an NYC job.


I agree with this: Dozo or Brooklyn free might be the best option. The riverboat gambler thing is clever, but also keep in mind if you go to a casino and score big you can cash out and leave. If you take an offer like Fordham the best case scenario is that it takes you 6-7 years (three in law school, and three to four years of working big law) before you can can cash out, and this is assuming you 1) do well in law school 2) get big law 3) keep the job for three to four years 4) live modestly to pay back loans. That's a lot of conditions to hit as opposed to 1) attend law school for free 2) graduate no debt 3) hopefully get big law or solid job 4) if not, get less prestigious legal job or leave the profession and do something else. Basically, Fordham is a gamble where if you win you won't be able to cash out for about 2/3-3/4 of a decade, and if you lose you will be really, really screwed.

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moandersen
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Re: Fordham vs. Wake Forest ($$$)

Postby moandersen » Fri Jul 20, 2012 3:11 pm

If those are your only two options and you are dead set on going to law school this fall, then Wake is the better choice simply because you will be debt free. There are a couple from Wake summering at NYC V10s, so if you do well you can get NYC. But you mentioned that you arent really interested in biglaw and I have no idea how Wake places (if at all) into NYC midlaw, especially without any connections. Who knows, maybe you will like NC (assuming you are OOS).

LawyerMan
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Re: Fordham vs. Wake Forest ($$$)

Postby LawyerMan » Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:46 pm

Sorry if this is a really ignorant question, but:

Is it not possible to just move to New York, take the bar, and go find a job on my own? Like how most people find jobs after college? I realize biglaw exclusively recruits, but for everyone else? WF isn't a top school, but it has some name recognition. Maybe try and get up there during the summers? Thanks again

LawyerMan
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Re: Fordham vs. Wake Forest ($$$)

Postby LawyerMan » Sat Jul 21, 2012 10:24 pm

bump

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top30man
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Re: Fordham vs. Wake Forest ($$$)

Postby top30man » Sat Jul 21, 2012 10:50 pm

Robespierre wrote:Taking on 150K debt for Fordham is extremely risky. The upside is working in NYC at a well-paying job. But look at the downside: If you graduate into unemployment or underemployment, you won't be able to make the payments of ~2K/month, and that could literally ruin your life.

Wake is highly unlikely to get you your dream of working in NYC. But the lack of any debt makes it a very safe choice. And whatever you earn, you can keep rather than handing it over to the debt collector.

Are you a riverboat gambler, or not?

P.S., Cardozo and Brooklyn are handing out big scholarships to anyone with the numbers to get into Fordham ... so why not one of those schools? You say your parents can cover COL; that would leave you with minimal debt and a degree that gives you a fighting chance for an NYC job.

I feel like dozo would be a good choice especially since Op is not interested in big law. Obviously it's late for that but op could reapply next cycle.

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moonman157
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Re: Fordham vs. Wake Forest ($$$)

Postby moonman157 » Sat Jul 21, 2012 11:14 pm

This is a Paul Campos moment

LawyerMan
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Re: Fordham vs. Wake Forest ($$$)

Postby LawyerMan » Sat Jul 21, 2012 11:41 pm

moonman157 wrote:This is a Paul Campos moment


What?

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Teflon_Jeff
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Re: Fordham vs. Wake Forest ($$$)

Postby Teflon_Jeff » Sun Jul 22, 2012 10:58 am

This is definitely WF, not even close.

They placed 5.8% of grads into NYC, so if you hustle and get good grades, you have a decent shot. More importantly, with no debt, you'll be okay no matter what.

If you can get an NYC full-ride, take it (BLS or Dozo) but Fordham at sticker is not a good idea.

RodneyBoonfield
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Re: Fordham vs. Wake Forest ($$$)

Postby RodneyBoonfield » Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:39 am

Hutz_and_Goodman wrote: The question is WFU for free/waiting a year to retake and reapply/not go to law school.

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JCFindley
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Re: Fordham vs. Wake Forest ($$$)

Postby JCFindley » Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:54 am

LawyerMan wrote:Sorry if this is a really ignorant question, but:

Is it not possible to just move to New York, take the bar, and go find a job on my own? Like how most people find jobs after college? I realize biglaw exclusively recruits, but for everyone else? WF isn't a top school, but it has some name recognition. Maybe try and get up there during the summers? Thanks again


It can be done. ANYTHING is possible. Probable? Not so much but it can be done.

The thing is, being debt free opens up a LOT of options and you can play with "possible" vs worrying about servicing 150K+ worth of debt and having to go with probable. You could always get a job in NC out of WF, learn the business then move to NYC, take the bar and hang your own shingle. (Assumes you are young and have time.)

Have you ever lived in NYC or do you just think you would like it from visiting?

LawyerMan
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Re: Fordham vs. Wake Forest ($$$)

Postby LawyerMan » Sun Jul 22, 2012 3:35 pm

JCFindley wrote:
LawyerMan wrote:Sorry if this is a really ignorant question, but:

Is it not possible to just move to New York, take the bar, and go find a job on my own? Like how most people find jobs after college? I realize biglaw exclusively recruits, but for everyone else? WF isn't a top school, but it has some name recognition. Maybe try and get up there during the summers? Thanks again


It can be done. ANYTHING is possible. Probable? Not so much but it can be done.

The thing is, being debt free opens up a LOT of options and you can play with "possible" vs worrying about servicing 150K+ worth of debt and having to go with probable. You could always get a job in NC out of WF, learn the business then move to NYC, take the bar and hang your own shingle. (Assumes you are young and have time.)

Have you ever lived in NYC or do you just think you would like it from visiting?


My Dad lived and worked up there when I was growing up, so I have spent a lot of time there.

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JCFindley
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Re: Fordham vs. Wake Forest ($$$)

Postby JCFindley » Sun Jul 22, 2012 8:01 pm

LawyerMan wrote:
JCFindley wrote:
LawyerMan wrote:Sorry if this is a really ignorant question, but:

Is it not possible to just move to New York, take the bar, and go find a job on my own? Like how most people find jobs after college? I realize biglaw exclusively recruits, but for everyone else? WF isn't a top school, but it has some name recognition. Maybe try and get up there during the summers? Thanks again


It can be done. ANYTHING is possible. Probable? Not so much but it can be done.

The thing is, being debt free opens up a LOT of options and you can play with "possible" vs worrying about servicing 150K+ worth of debt and having to go with probable. You could always get a job in NC out of WF, learn the business then move to NYC, take the bar and hang your own shingle. (Assumes you are young and have time.)

Have you ever lived in NYC or do you just think you would like it from visiting?


My Dad lived and worked up there when I was growing up, so I have spent a lot of time there.


Cool beans, so long as you know what you are getting into.

I am about as big a Fordham fan as you get but if it were me I would do Wake for free and see what happens from there.




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