Guidelines for choosing a law school

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Hutz_and_Goodman
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Guidelines for choosing a law school

Postby Hutz_and_Goodman » Wed Jul 18, 2012 10:15 am

Paul Campos has a new post with detailed guidelines for evaluating whether a given law school offer is worth accepting:

http://insidethelawschoolscam.blogspot. ... s.html?m=1

I think most people will be surprised by them, because they make it very hard to accept a T14 offer (given the scholarships the overwhelming majority receive).

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JamMasterJ
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Re: Guidelines for choosing a law school

Postby JamMasterJ » Wed Jul 18, 2012 10:23 am

According to Campos, the only reason it's ok for me to go to NYU with 62.5K is because of the LRAP.







ok

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BearState
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Re: Guidelines for choosing a law school

Postby BearState » Wed Jul 18, 2012 10:26 am

I think these rules were written by Campos' new partner, DJM.

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flem
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Re: Guidelines for choosing a law school

Postby flem » Wed Jul 18, 2012 10:38 am

Who is Campos' target audience, anyway?

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romothesavior
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Re: Guidelines for choosing a law school

Postby romothesavior » Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:26 am

Campos jumped the shark a while ago. Great message, but poor delivery and even worse logic behind the shit he says.

I hate to turn on one of the few academics who actually give a damn about this issue, but it is hard to even slog through his stuff anymore.

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top30man
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Re: Guidelines for choosing a law school

Postby top30man » Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:30 am

flem wrote:Who is Campos' target audience, anyway?

Also wondering this.

mr.hands
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Re: Guidelines for choosing a law school

Postby mr.hands » Thu Jul 19, 2012 1:27 pm

I wonder if the guideline about taking on less debt than the median salary includes accruing interest.

PolySuyGuy
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Re: Guidelines for choosing a law school

Postby PolySuyGuy » Thu Jul 19, 2012 2:05 pm

"Also be sure to ask the school how it sees its school-funded program evolving over the next three years."

that sentence made me laugh. As if the law schools will give you an answer free of omissions and spin. :roll:


/As a side not, I enjoy Campos but I feel like he isn't keeping up with the rapidly evolving world of law school and law school admissions. This isn't your grandfather's law school anymore.
Last edited by PolySuyGuy on Thu Jul 19, 2012 2:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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JamMasterJ
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Re: Guidelines for choosing a law school

Postby JamMasterJ » Thu Jul 19, 2012 2:20 pm

top30man wrote:
flem wrote:Who is Campos' target audience, anyway?

Also wondering this.

I feel like the people that would benefit from his "Dummy's Guide to Choosing whether to go to law school" would best serve a group of people that doesn't seem to exist. It seems like people are completely in the know about what is a good decision (TLSers and the like) or completely in the dark (those that pay sticker at TTTs) with very few people that fall in the middle.

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romothesavior
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Re: Guidelines for choosing a law school

Postby romothesavior » Thu Jul 19, 2012 3:49 pm

JamMasterJ wrote:
top30man wrote:
flem wrote:Who is Campos' target audience, anyway?

Also wondering this.

I feel like the people that would benefit from his "Dummy's Guide to Choosing whether to go to law school" would best serve a group of people that doesn't seem to exist. It seems like people are completely in the know about what is a good decision (TLSers and the like) or completely in the dark (those that pay sticker at TTTs) with very few people that fall in the middle.

Really? I completely disagree. I think the largest and most dangerous group is the middle group: the ones who know things are bad, but significantly underestimate how bad. They go to decent schools but at questionable cost, and assume that just because they're going in with eyes open, they'll be okay.

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JamMasterJ
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Re: Guidelines for choosing a law school

Postby JamMasterJ » Thu Jul 19, 2012 4:14 pm

romothesavior wrote:
JamMasterJ wrote:
top30man wrote:
flem wrote:Who is Campos' target audience, anyway?

Also wondering this.

I feel like the people that would benefit from his "Dummy's Guide to Choosing whether to go to law school" would best serve a group of people that doesn't seem to exist. It seems like people are completely in the know about what is a good decision (TLSers and the like) or completely in the dark (those that pay sticker at TTTs) with very few people that fall in the middle.

Really? I completely disagree. I think the largest and most dangerous group is the middle group: the ones who know things are bad, but significantly underestimate how bad. They go to decent schools but at questionable cost, and assume that just because they're going in with eyes open, they'll be okay.

I mean, I think it's a really bad group to be in, the Fordham with 15k per year group. But I guess I have run into a disproportionately low number of them in my time here, and since I don't go to school yet...

I just think that there are about 100 schools where 95% of the students are making a bad decision, which accounts for probably almost half of law students, and I think on the other end, I see a disproportionately high number of "good school/good understanding of the legal market" type people.


ETA: I would think that the TTT students are in the most dangerous group, but the ones that end up at T50s with small schollies are in the most regrettable situations because they actually could have done something to end up in a better situation, rather than the best decision being not going to school at all.

bingbang1025
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Re: Guidelines for choosing a law school

Postby bingbang1025 » Thu Jul 19, 2012 4:24 pm

I'm going to BU with $21k/yr and $10k/yr assistance from my parents. Am I making a mistake?

TLSwag
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Re: Guidelines for choosing a law school

Postby TLSwag » Thu Jul 19, 2012 4:34 pm

bingbang1025 wrote:I'm going to BU with $21k/yr and $10k/yr assistance from my parents. Am I making a mistake?


i would say no, that is pretty reasonable debt for BU but if its true you have a 3.75/163, then u are definitely making a mistake. dont waste that gpa

mr.hands
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Re: Guidelines for choosing a law school

Postby mr.hands » Thu Jul 19, 2012 5:00 pm

I feel bad for people EDing to non-T14 schools plus Georgetown. That's crippling

TLSwag
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Re: Guidelines for choosing a law school

Postby TLSwag » Thu Jul 19, 2012 5:18 pm

mr.hands wrote:I feel bad for people EDing to non-T14 schools plus Georgetown. That's crippling


subtle UT trolling

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Nova
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Re: Guidelines for choosing a law school

Postby Nova » Thu Jul 19, 2012 5:19 pm

bingbang1025 wrote:I'm going to BU with $21k/yr and $10k/yr assistance from my parents. Am I making a mistake?


Not IMO.

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JamMasterJ
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Re: Guidelines for choosing a law school

Postby JamMasterJ » Thu Jul 19, 2012 5:51 pm

TLSwag wrote:
mr.hands wrote:I feel bad for people EDing to non-T14 schools plus Georgetown. That's crippling


subtle UT trolling

15 breh

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SuperCerealBrah
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Re: Guidelines for choosing a law school

Postby SuperCerealBrah » Thu Jul 19, 2012 5:57 pm

romothesavior wrote:Campos jumped the shark a while ago. Great message, but poor delivery and even worse logic behind the shit he says.

I hate to turn on one of the few academics who actually give a damn about this issue, but it is hard to even slog through his stuff anymore.



This. Its good for an academic to take note of these issues, but Campos just reeks of attention seeking behavior. Not to mention his whole "obesity myth" thing is absolutely retarded...not completely wrong, but he is just a king of logic leaps.

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sunynp
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Re: Guidelines for choosing a law school

Postby sunynp » Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:06 pm

SuperCerealBrah wrote:
romothesavior wrote:Campos jumped the shark a while ago. Great message, but poor delivery and even worse logic behind the shit he says.

I hate to turn on one of the few academics who actually give a damn about this issue, but it is hard to even slog through his stuff anymore.



This. Its good for an academic to take note of these issues, but Campos just reeks of attention seeking behavior. Not to mention his whole "obesity myth" thing is absolutely retarded...not completely wrong, but he is just a king of logic leaps.


Maybe he is attention seeking, but i think part of it is that he is totally fed up with the endless bullshit that schools publish. Some of his stuff is repetitive for sure. But yesterday and today he called out schools --Rutgers Camden and Georgia State- for lying about the amount of debt grads have. He also pointed out how USNews reported these schools as good values, or something like that, based on the incorrect amount of debt. The schools had given the debt for one year instead of three years.

No one else is taking the lead on things like that as far as I know. Schools have been lying about numbers and getting away with it for so long, that they will continue until stopped. USNews does nothing to verify the numbers that it gets, it just seems to print them. Yet uninformed people consider USNews a reliable source.

I think he is still providing a service when he forces schools to confront their lies and misrepresentations.

I haven't read the post that this is referring to, but the other writer for the site, an Ohio State professor did say she was going to put together some kind of guidelines.

edit: yes that blog post about the guidelines, which I haven't slogged through was written by the other professor. It would be interesting to see if she can justify people going to Ohio State where she teaches.

This is her bio FWIW: --LinkRemoved--
Yes, she was a SCOTUS clerk
Last edited by sunynp on Thu Jul 19, 2012 7:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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sunynp
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Re: Guidelines for choosing a law school

Postby sunynp » Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:45 pm

I don't know, I think that is a hard-to-follow blog post, but people going to T14 schools need to be careful about debt too.

At least 50% of people should not have gone to law school at all. When I read posts here by people that have debt and no jobs, like the guy who was wondering whether he should even take the bar, or even posts by people who have jobs and are still on IBR I feel that more people should just not go to law school. The law school debt doesn't go away. You carry that burden even if you never practice law a day in your life.

I feel that people go to school assuming they are going to be fine, but they don't know what will happen. There was a post on Campos blog by the same Ohio prof about the risks of law school. I feel that the biggest risk is that you don't know how well you will do.

The curve just destroys people. Yet everyone who goes to school thinks they will be at least median. But we all know that isn't possible, some people have to be below median. Some people have to be the bottom 10%.

So maybe the NYU LRAP is the only reason it is worth it for at least some of the class. You know before school even starts that there will be people who need that LRAP, some of them are planning PI, others aren't. But there is no question that at least some of the NYU 2015 class will end up using that safety net.




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