W&L on the rise???

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Tigerrr
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W&L on the rise???

Postby Tigerrr » Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:13 pm

Long time lurker first time poster

ITE is W&L still a decent choice...does it give one a relatively decent change at landing biglaw...(not talking in relation to t-14..but more so to its peers) I have heard it has decent reach to DC

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Nova
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Re: W&L on the rise???

Postby Nova » Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:20 pm

W&Ls placement is not that good and lags behind many peers.

W&L c/o 2011 wrote:55% of graduates were known to be employed in long-term, full-time legal jobs. This figure includes no school-funded jobs..
65.9% graduates were employed in long-term jobs.
75.2% graduates were employed in full-time jobs.
9.3% of graduates were employed in school-funded jobs.
11+: 21.2%
50+: 15%
251+: 10.1%
501+: 7%


--LinkRemoved--

jarofsoup
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Re: W&L on the rise???

Postby jarofsoup » Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:24 pm

--LinkRemoved--

I am not sure that it is a great choice in spite of its rank. I am skeptical of mid-20-50 schools that are located in the boonies.

CanadianWolf
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Re: W&L on the rise???

Postby CanadianWolf » Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:26 pm

Without any research, my off the cuff response would be "no".

Tigerrr
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Re: W&L on the rise???

Postby Tigerrr » Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:35 pm

Nova wrote:W&Ls placement is not that good and lags behind many peers.

W&L c/o 2011 wrote:55% of graduates were known to be employed in long-term, full-time legal jobs. This figure includes no school-funded jobs..
65.9% graduates were employed in long-term jobs.
75.2% graduates were employed in full-time jobs.
9.3% of graduates were employed in school-funded jobs.
11+: 21.2%
50+: 15%
251+: 10.1%
501+: 7%


--LinkRemoved--



I have seen this and while not disagreeing with the facts...could it be that this class was an anomaly of sorts...if you go back just one year to 2010 employment was a full 10% higher and even though 2009 was near the start of the downfall those employment numbers were in 80%..so could it be a blip on the radar or are these employment numbers here to stay you think?

jarofsoup
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Re: W&L on the rise???

Postby jarofsoup » Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:37 pm

Tigerrr wrote:
Nova wrote:W&Ls placement is not that good and lags behind many peers.

W&L c/o 2011 wrote:55% of graduates were known to be employed in long-term, full-time legal jobs. This figure includes no school-funded jobs..
65.9% graduates were employed in long-term jobs.
75.2% graduates were employed in full-time jobs.
9.3% of graduates were employed in school-funded jobs.
11+: 21.2%
50+: 15%
251+: 10.1%
501+: 7%


--LinkRemoved--



I have seen this and while not disagreeing with the facts...could it be that this class was an anomaly of sorts...if you go back just one year to 2010 employment was a full 10% higher and even though 2009 was near the start of the downfall those employment numbers were in 80%..so could it be a blip on the radar or are these employment numbers here to stay you think?



Since the reporting standards required by the ABA have changed in the last year to be more transparent I think it may be a reflection of this.

Are you weighing admission offers?

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glitter178
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Re: W&L on the rise???

Postby glitter178 » Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:38 pm

jesus h., man. no.

Tigerrr
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Re: W&L on the rise???

Postby Tigerrr » Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:42 pm

jarofsoup wrote:
Tigerrr wrote:
Nova wrote:W&Ls placement is not that good and lags behind many peers.

W&L c/o 2011 wrote:55% of graduates were known to be employed in long-term, full-time legal jobs. This figure includes no school-funded jobs..
65.9% graduates were employed in long-term jobs.
75.2% graduates were employed in full-time jobs.
9.3% of graduates were employed in school-funded jobs.
11+: 21.2%
50+: 15%
251+: 10.1%
501+: 7%


--LinkRemoved--



I have seen this and while not disagreeing with the facts...could it be that this class was an anomaly of sorts...if you go back just one year to 2010 employment was a full 10% higher and even though 2009 was near the start of the downfall those employment numbers were in 80%..so could it be a blip on the radar or are these employment numbers here to stay you think?



Since the reporting standards required by the ABA have changed in the last year to be more transparent I think it may be a reflection of this.

Are you weighing admission offers?




Getting ready to apply this cycle... so just weighing options and getting info...through my current job I have met a few W&L alums and talked with them some so thats why they peaked my interest

Tigerrr
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Re: W&L on the rise???

Postby Tigerrr » Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:53 pm

also I have heard that W&L alums are extremely loyal and will great to great lengths to help out other alums...so i think i would have a leg up already knowing a few
Last edited by Tigerrr on Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Aberzombie1892
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Re: W&L on the rise???

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:56 pm

It's good for small VA law.

FlanSolo
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Re: W&L on the rise???

Postby FlanSolo » Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:01 pm

Tigerrr wrote:also I have that W&L alums are extremely loyal and will great to great lengths to help out other alums...so i think i would have a leg up already knowing a few


Maybe, but it's my impression that school loyalty will not make up for inadequate credentials. So, given that few W&L grads are getting jobs in Biglaw, your credentials will still need to be top-notch. Also, loyalty is not really going to get you anywhere in an OCI context, where a firm comes and interviews a bunch of kids from your school.

There may be some loyalty bonus in the context of small boutiques though. The bottom line is that if you're looking for biglaw, you want to go to a school that sends a lot of kids to biglaw.

Tigerrr
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Re: W&L on the rise???

Postby Tigerrr » Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:16 pm

FlanSolo wrote:
Tigerrr wrote:also I have that W&L alums are extremely loyal and will great to great lengths to help out other alums...so i think i would have a leg up already knowing a few


Maybe, but it's my impression that school loyalty will not make up for inadequate credentials. So, given that few W&L grads are getting jobs in Biglaw, your credentials will still need to be top-notch. Also, loyalty is not really going to get you anywhere in an OCI context, where a firm comes and interviews a bunch of kids from your school.

There may be some loyalty bonus in the context of small boutiques though. The bottom line is that if you're looking for biglaw, you want to go to a school that sends a lot of kids to biglaw.


Thanks...that was well said ...I definately understand that coming from W&L I would have to be int top 20-25% for Biglaw which is hard to do

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rinkrat19
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Re: W&L on the rise???

Postby rinkrat19 » Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:18 pm

Tigerrr wrote:
FlanSolo wrote:
Tigerrr wrote:also I have that W&L alums are extremely loyal and will great to great lengths to help out other alums...so i think i would have a leg up already knowing a few


Maybe, but it's my impression that school loyalty will not make up for inadequate credentials. So, given that few W&L grads are getting jobs in Biglaw, your credentials will still need to be top-notch. Also, loyalty is not really going to get you anywhere in an OCI context, where a firm comes and interviews a bunch of kids from your school.

There may be some loyalty bonus in the context of small boutiques though. The bottom line is that if you're looking for biglaw, you want to go to a school that sends a lot of kids to biglaw.


Thanks...that was well said ...I definately understand that coming from W&L I would have to be int top 20-25% for Biglaw which is hard to do
More like top 10-15%
http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... slreturn=1

Tigerrr
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Re: W&L on the rise???

Postby Tigerrr » Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:25 pm

rinkrat19 wrote:
Tigerrr wrote:
FlanSolo wrote:
Tigerrr wrote:also I have that W&L alums are extremely loyal and will great to great lengths to help out other alums...so i think i would have a leg up already knowing a few


Maybe, but it's my impression that school loyalty will not make up for inadequate credentials. So, given that few W&L grads are getting jobs in Biglaw, your credentials will still need to be top-notch. Also, loyalty is not really going to get you anywhere in an OCI context, where a firm comes and interviews a bunch of kids from your school.

There may be some loyalty bonus in the context of small boutiques though. The bottom line is that if you're looking for biglaw, you want to go to a school that sends a lot of kids to biglaw.


Thanks...that was well said ...I definately understand that coming from W&L I would have to be int top 20-25% for Biglaw which is hard to do
More like top 10-15%
http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... slreturn=1


Thanks for that...I had not come accross this website yet

JetsFan1990
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Re: W&L on the rise???

Postby JetsFan1990 » Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:27 pm

Yeah, I agree with the general consensus in this thread. I'm not sure why W&L jumped in the rankings (along with Emory), but IMO neither of those schools' employment statistics justifies the rank.

FlanSolo
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Re: W&L on the rise???

Postby FlanSolo » Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:39 pm

JetsFan1990 wrote:Yeah, I agree with the general consensus in this thread. I'm not sure why W&L jumped in the rankings (along with Emory), but IMO neither of those schools' employment statistics justifies the rank.


I think the main thing to keep in mind about USNews rankings is that people's perceptions are generally solidified such that moves in the rankings really don't change anything, at least in the short term. Firms base their hiring off the economy and historical perceptions of schools (i.e., how many kids they tend to take from a given school), not how effectively a school is able to game the ranking system (see: WUSTL employment stats). It's possible that sustained positive attention may, over time, push a firm to reevaluate a school, but the sort of ordinary fluctuations don't really matter at all.

Outside the T14, by far the most important thing to look at is the percentage of grads getting jobs. And I don't think it's any coincidence that the schools that do this with a modicum of success tend to be located in major markets, not backwaters.

Jester
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Re: W&L on the rise???

Postby Jester » Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:45 pm

You may want to look at rankings like this done by third parties listing biglaw percentages, rather than comparing what the schools put out:

http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... slreturn=1

theintern
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Re: W&L on the rise???

Postby theintern » Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:53 pm

You're assuming that the entire class is applying for biglaw positions AND that biglaw is only recruiting from the top of the class, no exceptions. This is a terrible statistic, especially when employed to pass judgment on schools located in regions where these firms are few and far between.

CanadianWolf
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Re: W&L on the rise???

Postby CanadianWolf » Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:57 pm

In the recent past, Wash & Lee has done well in placing students in state court clerkships.

JetsFan1990
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Re: W&L on the rise???

Postby JetsFan1990 » Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:58 pm

theintern wrote:You're assuming that the entire class is applying for biglaw positions AND that biglaw is only recruiting from the top of the class, no exceptions. This is a terrible statistic, especially when employed to pass judgment on schools located in regions where these firms are few and far between.


Good luck paying off those loans without working BigLaw.

Also agree that the most important thing to look at when choosing a school is employment statistics, not rank.

Tigerrr
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Re: W&L on the rise???

Postby Tigerrr » Mon Jul 16, 2012 5:11 pm

theintern wrote:You're assuming that the entire class is applying for biglaw positions AND that biglaw is only recruiting from the top of the class, no exceptions. This is a terrible statistic, especially when employed to pass judgment on schools located in regions where these firms are few and far between.


following up a little on this point a little...someone once told me that these employment stats can sometimes not tell the whole story and it assumes that the entire class is applying for biglaw...where as with a school with like W&L who places reasnable in Clerckships you may have a good chunk of students attending to go into clerking...or a lot of the classes are made up of people from the virginia area who are vying for Virginia and surrounding areas jobs that aren't Biglaw...I personally know a good amount of people going to law school at T-14 and very good regional schools and I would say about 75-80% of them have told me that they dont want to go into Biglaw when they graduate (could they just be saying that and planning to do the opposite...sure) but I take it for what it is..so its possible that only 50% of a certain class even goes after the biglaw jobs in the first place...and I tend to believe in this a little becasue I know a person on the hiring committee of a v40 firm and he told me that their cutoff for W&L is really the top 35% not the 10-15% that certain numbers would suggest.


anyone agree with this?

rad lulz
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Re: W&L on the rise???

Postby rad lulz » Mon Jul 16, 2012 5:12 pm

A rise in rankings will bring employers on DROVES from as far away as land of the mighty Zambezi.

Tigerrr
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Re: W&L on the rise???

Postby Tigerrr » Mon Jul 16, 2012 5:16 pm

rad lulz wrote:A rise in rankings will bring employers on DROVES from as far away as land of the mighty Zambezi.


Was that really neccessary...almost everyone in this thread has disagreed with my question, yet they were able to respond in a way that adds value and substance to this discussion...the only purpose your response served is for you to be a jerk...if you want to tell me that a rise in the rankings really doesnt effect hiring as someone else pointed out before you then just say that

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romothesavior
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Re: W&L on the rise???

Postby romothesavior » Mon Jul 16, 2012 5:19 pm

If you are looking for a school on the rise, might I recommend Arizona State University, a school where employers are heading to OCI in DROVES?

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PaulKriske
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Re: W&L on the rise???

Postby PaulKriske » Mon Jul 16, 2012 5:19 pm

romothesavior wrote:If you are looking for a school on the rise, might I recommend Arizona State University, a school where employers are heading to OCI in DROVES?


i've heard that, too.




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