Duke v. NYU for things other than NYC BigLaw

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

What should I do?

Stay at Duke regardless
19
41%
Stay at Duke if they give me $30k more, otherwise go to NYU
6
13%
Stay at Duke if they give me $60k more, otherwise go to NYU
10
22%
Stay at Duke if they give me $100k more, otherwise go to NYU
3
7%
Go to NYU regardless
8
17%
 
Total votes: 46

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DaleCooper
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Duke v. NYU for things other than NYC BigLaw

Postby DaleCooper » Wed Jul 11, 2012 7:44 pm

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Last edited by DaleCooper on Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Grazzhoppa
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Re: Duke v. NYU for things other than NYC BigLaw

Postby Grazzhoppa » Wed Jul 11, 2012 8:49 pm

stay at Duke.

TMC116
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Re: Duke v. NYU for things other than NYC BigLaw

Postby TMC116 » Wed Jul 11, 2012 8:59 pm

Grazzhoppa wrote:stay at Duke.


+1

They aren't going to increase your scholarship anywhere near 60k. Duke's NLJ placement is virtually identical to NYU's (i think duke's NLJ numbers were slightly higher for 2011), they place over 11% into federal clerkships, and it's a lot cheaper.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Duke v. NYU for things other than NYC BigLaw

Postby CanadianWolf » Wed Jul 11, 2012 9:28 pm

Sorry, but I didn't understand OP's original post in this thread. OP: Are you a JD or LLM student ? (You wrote that you're a student in the JD/LLM International Comparative Law.)

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Doorkeeper
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Re: Duke v. NYU for things other than NYC BigLaw

Postby Doorkeeper » Wed Jul 11, 2012 9:45 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:Sorry, but I didn't understand OP's original post in this thread. OP: Are you a JD or LLM student ? (You wrote that you're a student in the JD/LLM International Comparative Law.)

I assume OP has started at Duke in the program.

For International law and national security stuff, NYU definitely has the edge. I don't think 5k at Duke is enough to really change that unless you have connections at Duke Law specifically in the faculty or administration. You already have ties to NC so you don't need to worry about staying at Duke if you want to go to Charlotte in the end.

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DaleCooper
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Re: Duke v. NYU for things other than NYC BigLaw

Postby DaleCooper » Wed Jul 11, 2012 11:53 pm

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Last edited by DaleCooper on Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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2014
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Re: Duke v. NYU for things other than NYC BigLaw

Postby 2014 » Thu Jul 12, 2012 3:15 am

How much money are you out if you bail?

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Bosque
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Re: Duke v. NYU for things other than NYC BigLaw

Postby Bosque » Thu Jul 12, 2012 3:24 am

DaleCooper wrote:
CanadianWolf wrote:Sorry, but I didn't understand OP's original post in this thread. OP: Are you a JD or LLM student ? (You wrote that you're a student in the JD/LLM International Comparative Law.)


Duke has a dual JD/LLM that starts in the summer and takes three years. I've already started the classes, but I haven't taken any exams yet.


I'm pretty sure at this point you would need to take the finals, even if you transfer. Not sure what the cut off date is on that, but I feel like we have passed it.

I know it has been hot here, but the rain finally hit so it is cooling off now. And in the fall it will be much nicer, you know it.

If you stay, I will give you a cookie.

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rayiner
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Re: Duke v. NYU for things other than NYC BigLaw

Postby rayiner » Thu Jul 12, 2012 1:14 pm

NYU unless Duke gives you at least $50k.

NYU is hard to evaluate rationally. By the numbers, their big law placement isn't any better than Duke's. So the question is really whether you believe the party line that it's all heavily skewed by the 20% of NYU that allegedly wants PI and would prefer unemployment to big law.

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DaleCooper
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Re: Duke v. NYU for things other than NYC BigLaw

Postby DaleCooper » Thu Jul 12, 2012 4:13 pm

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Last edited by DaleCooper on Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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DaleCooper
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Re: Duke v. NYU for things other than NYC BigLaw

Postby DaleCooper » Thu Jul 12, 2012 4:26 pm

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Last edited by DaleCooper on Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:39 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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birdlaw117
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Re: Duke v. NYU for things other than NYC BigLaw

Postby birdlaw117 » Thu Jul 12, 2012 4:27 pm

2014 wrote:How much money are you out if you bail?

Sunk cost, but if you wanted to do some sort of LLM at NYU as well, I guess it would be relevant.
rayiner wrote:NYU unless Duke gives you at least $50k.

NYU is hard to evaluate rationally. By the numbers, their big law placement isn't any better than Duke's. So the question is really whether you believe the party line that it's all heavily skewed by the 20% of NYU that allegedly wants PI and would prefer unemployment to big law.

It's funny because of the other thread, but I'm not so sure this is such an NYU slam dunk. I think NYU and Duke are not hugely differentiated in DC big law, and the interest in Charlotte would seem to lean heavily in favor of Duke.

Definitely try and negotiate. If Duke gives you $50k you should probably stay, but less than that I think it gets complicated. I think there is an argument for staying even if you get nothing, though I don't think I would go that far.

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NedStark12
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Re: Duke v. NYU for things other than NYC BigLaw

Postby NedStark12 » Thu Jul 12, 2012 7:07 pm

well, not sure if this is mentioned already but add $5-10K/year on top of expenses for COL/travel if you went to NYU, making the difference in COA at least 30K higher right off the bat (losing $15K for your need-based at Duke + at least $15K in extra COA/travel if you went to NYU). NOTE: this doesn't take into consideration tuition and other expenses, which I'm sure is higher at NYU

EDIT: Refer to the following links and see what expenses apply to you. The expenses listed at the following 2 links add up to $78K at NYU and $71K at Duke. Get a total COA # for each school, including travel expenses and living to get a better perspective outside of just scholly/need-based money each school gives you.

http://www.law.nyu.edu/financialaid/bud ... /index.htm
Tuition: $51,150

http://law.duke.edu/admis/financial/handbook/sec3/
Tuition: $50,500


--------


Also refer to the NLJ 250 Stats that most people on the TLS forums use to compare worth/BigLaw prospects of different schools
http://www.lawschooltransparency.com/20 ... tatistics/

As per those stats, there wasn't any real difference between NYU and Duke's BigLaw prospects (Both at 40%).
Last edited by NedStark12 on Thu Jul 12, 2012 7:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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2014
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Re: Duke v. NYU for things other than NYC BigLaw

Postby 2014 » Thu Jul 12, 2012 7:20 pm

birdlaw117 wrote:
2014 wrote:How much money are you out if you bail?

Sunk cost, but if you wanted to do some sort of LLM at NYU as well, I guess it would be relevant.

It is a sunk cost, but it is also the equivalent of paying more than sticker for NYU and thus must be considered. If he has dropped like 20 grand or something for the summer that is unrecoverable, to go to NYU would be sticker + 20k.

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birdlaw117
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Re: Duke v. NYU for things other than NYC BigLaw

Postby birdlaw117 » Thu Jul 12, 2012 7:29 pm

2014 wrote:
birdlaw117 wrote:
2014 wrote:How much money are you out if you bail?

Sunk cost, but if you wanted to do some sort of LLM at NYU as well, I guess it would be relevant.

It is a sunk cost, but it is also the equivalent of paying more than sticker for NYU and thus must be considered. If he has dropped like 20 grand or something for the summer that is unrecoverable, to go to NYU would be sticker + 20k.

Really? He's going to be paying 6 semesters worth of COA at both after this summer, and have to pay the 20 grand no matter what. I fail to see how that matters.

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Bosque
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Re: Duke v. NYU for things other than NYC BigLaw

Postby Bosque » Thu Jul 12, 2012 8:43 pm

DaleCooper wrote:
I'm holding you to that, mystery person. Something something consideration something revoke the offer something.


It's a unilateral contract offer actually, so it is revocable until you begin performance. After that, it is an irrevocable option contract for a reasonable time. But there is no acceptance on your part until you have actually completed performance, so I cannot hold you liable for breach.

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sach1282
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Re: Duke v. NYU for things other than NYC BigLaw

Postby sach1282 » Sat Jul 14, 2012 5:32 pm

Edited.
Last edited by sach1282 on Sun Jul 15, 2012 4:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Doorkeeper
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Re: Duke v. NYU for things other than NYC BigLaw

Postby Doorkeeper » Sat Jul 14, 2012 5:49 pm

sach1282 wrote:No wonder you sleep in Civ Pro every day, I would too if I was planning on transferring, haha.

FWIW --LinkRemoved-- shows Duke ahead of NYU for clerkships and biglaw, but NYU ahead for overall employment.

Of importance to the OP:
Total employment: NYU = 90%, Duke = 83%
Public Service: NYU = 24%, Duke = 9%

Their biglaw (D 45%, N 43%) and clerkship rates (D 11.1%, N 10.9%) are nearly identical.

NYU.

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rayiner
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Re: Duke v. NYU for things other than NYC BigLaw

Postby rayiner » Sat Jul 14, 2012 5:55 pm

Doorkeeper wrote:
sach1282 wrote:No wonder you sleep in Civ Pro every day, I would too if I was planning on transferring, haha.

FWIW --LinkRemoved-- shows Duke ahead of NYU for clerkships and biglaw, but NYU ahead for overall employment.

Of importance to the OP:
Total employment: NYU = 90%, Duke = 83%
Public Service: NYU = 24%, Duke = 9%

Their biglaw (D 45%, N 43%) and clerkship rates (D 11.1%, N 10.9%) are nearly identical.

NYU.


NYU's number is fake thanks to temporary school-funded jobs.

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Doorkeeper
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Re: Duke v. NYU for things other than NYC BigLaw

Postby Doorkeeper » Sat Jul 14, 2012 6:04 pm

rayiner wrote:
Doorkeeper wrote:
sach1282 wrote:No wonder you sleep in Civ Pro every day, I would too if I was planning on transferring, haha.

FWIW --LinkRemoved-- shows Duke ahead of NYU for clerkships and biglaw, but NYU ahead for overall employment.

Of importance to the OP:
Total employment: NYU = 90%, Duke = 83%
Public Service: NYU = 24%, Duke = 9%

Their biglaw (D 45%, N 43%) and clerkship rates (D 11.1%, N 10.9%) are nearly identical.

NYU.


NYU's number is fake thanks to temporary school-funded jobs.

That chart only has a 7% difference in "School funded rate" (NYU = 12%, Duke = 5%). That closes the gap in total employment, but not public service (if they're counted towards that number).

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rayiner
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Re: Duke v. NYU for things other than NYC BigLaw

Postby rayiner » Sat Jul 14, 2012 6:43 pm

Doorkeeper wrote:That chart only has a 7% difference in "School funded rate" (NYU = 12%, Duke = 5%). That closes the gap in total employment, but not public service (if they're counted towards that number).


The LST chart doesn't show the school funded rate in a useful way. School funded jobs may be reported as part-time, short-term, or not bar required. Duke reports most of its school-funded jobs as part-time (they don't count toward LST's total employment rate), while NYU reports all of its school-funded jobs as full-time (they do count toward's LST's total employment rate).

Duke reported 170 "long-term, full-time, bar-required" jobs, with 3 school-funded jobs in the "long-term, full-time" category. The other 7 school-funded jobs are part-time. So Duke's real "long-term, full-time, bar-required" jobs is 81-82%, depending on whether those school funded jobs are counted as bar-required.

NYU reported 420 "long-term, full-time, bar-required" jobs, with all 56 school-funded jobs in the "long-term, full-time" category. NYU's real "long-term, full-time, bar-required" rate might be 78-90%, depending on whether those school funded jobs are counted as "bar-required." Note that at least some of those 56 must be reported as bar-required (420 + 56 = 476, versus 466 total grads). In reality, I'm going to guess they're all counted as bar required, which puts the real figure at 78%.

And yes, of course NYU's public service figure is very high. 12% of its class was in school-funded jobs, and these jobs are public service jobs.

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birdlaw117
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Re: Duke v. NYU for things other than NYC BigLaw

Postby birdlaw117 » Sat Jul 14, 2012 10:57 pm

NYU has a lot of PI fellowships, which are very legitimate, sought after positions that are probably included in that figure. If you research NYU in comparison to Duke in this regard you will see a very substantial difference.

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DaleCooper
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Re: Duke v. NYU for things other than NYC BigLaw

Postby DaleCooper » Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:33 pm

Well, Duke declined to increase my scholarship. After my visit to NYU this week, I was already leaning in that direction... this just confirms it. New York it is.

Thanks to everyone who contributed!

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birdlaw117
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Re: Duke v. NYU for things other than NYC BigLaw

Postby birdlaw117 » Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:46 pm

DaleCooper wrote:Well, Duke declined to increase my scholarship. After my visit to NYU this week, I was already leaning in that direction... this just confirms it. New York it is.

Thanks to everyone who contributed!

Best of luck! PM me if you have any questions.

MrAnon
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Re: Duke v. NYU for things other than NYC BigLaw

Postby MrAnon » Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:56 pm

Funny that you think Duke is somehow useful for NYC biglaw. Its really a rare thing for that.




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