What's Virginia's advantage over Michigan

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BruceWayne
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Re: What's Virginia's advantage over Michigan

Postby BruceWayne » Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:38 pm

[quote="paulinaporizkova"]In the amount of hustle I've undergone so far, I am 100% sure that my T14 law degree from the school I'm at, not in the region I'm looking into, gives me an advantage over all the lower ranked schools in the region I'm looking into, some of which are solid schools. I just don't understand your doom and gloom sometimes. We have talked before. You got a firm job. It worked out the way you wanted it to work out. And I also know that you go to a T14 that feeds directly into the region you're from and wanted to work in/got a job back in. So I don't think you should be giving strongly worded advice to people not in that position because you didn't go through our particular job application process. Rayiner, thanks for your input.

also, really good grades vs. below a 3.2? that leaves a lot of middle ground that you don't appear to account for, and that's the GPA range most people are in[/quote]

That's because your grades are fine, if you had ended up where you thought you would at one point you would be in a very different situation.

As far as my doom and gloom thing even though things worked out for me is concerned; you have to understand that I have the exact set of circumstances where I would recommend someone go to UVA at sticker. I am from the South. That puts me in a very different position than my classmates who got my grades and are NOT from the South. In essence you yourself pointed that fact out. The people I know with similar grades to mine who aren't from the South, by and large, struck out and are working unpaid summer jobs and/or don't lead to full time employment. The one's that I know who graduated this year and last year with my grades who aren't from the South are not working paid jobs. That's why I'm doom and gloom. Finally, a lot more people at UVA have a 3.2 and below than many would like you to believe. 3.3 is the MEAN GPA at UVA.

Just
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Re: What's Virginia's advantage over Michigan

Postby Just » Wed Jul 11, 2012 6:49 pm

TLSers, thanks for the input. I'm an international student, so I don't have ties in any of them.
So I should not apply for UVA ED?
How's my shot at Penn if I ED there? 167, 170, gpa hasn't been evaluated by LSAC, but top 5% in class.

ze2151
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Re: What's Virginia's advantage over Michigan

Postby ze2151 » Wed Jul 11, 2012 6:58 pm

paulina loses credibility when she utters the magic word- NETWORK!

right, that's the only thing holding these kids back, a lack of gumption and networking skills. couldn't be the fact that there are 2 grads for every 1 job.

op needs to assume the worst. and not being in a favorable market, should the worst occur, is a bad place to be.

ze2151
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Re: What's Virginia's advantage over Michigan

Postby ze2151 » Wed Jul 11, 2012 7:01 pm

op- i wouldn't know about your situation as it pertains to acceptances. uva was the only school in that echelon to take me, but that was probably a function of other schools watching their yields (176 lsat). that cycle was nuts. in your case, treat your 170 like the crazy asset it is. make schools fight over you. i'd never, under any circumstances, ed to a school. 170s are scarce. take advantage and get a deal.

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skers
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Re: What's Virginia's advantage over Michigan

Postby skers » Wed Jul 11, 2012 7:03 pm

People actually want to live in Charlottesville.

paulinaporizkova
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Re: What's Virginia's advantage over Michigan

Postby paulinaporizkova » Wed Jul 11, 2012 7:15 pm

ze2151 wrote:paulina loses credibility when she utters the magic word- NETWORK!

right, that's the only thing holding these kids back, a lack of gumption and networking skills. couldn't be the fact that there are 2 grads for every 1 job.

op needs to assume the worst. and not being in a favorable market, should the worst occur, is a bad place to be.


around median or better at Virginia or Michigan when you're trying to get a job in Portland, or Seattle, or Phoenix, or WHEREVER, is not a bad place to be. below median might not be bad either, i'm not sure. the problem sometimes is the people there are entitled and think jobs will fall into their laps when they go to t14s and so they are shocked and surprised when it doesn't happen. people with bad grades have hustled and made it happen. also there are thousands of grads from shitty law schools every year. but UM and UVa have some of the best job prospects in the country. you're trying to make it seem like even t14ers have a 1 in 2 chance of getting a good legal job. that's just not the case. quit being so fucking EMO everyone, MY GOD I hate law students

Real Madrid
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Re: What's Virginia's advantage over Michigan

Postby Real Madrid » Wed Jul 11, 2012 7:49 pm

Its main advantage is that it's much better at gaming the shit out of USNWR's ranking system by accepting tons of splitters and reverse splitters so that it can maintain its wildly inflated medians. Oh, and it's also better at providing shit tons of graduates with school-funded jobs to game the rankings on the back end.

Otherwise, it's more or less equal.

paulinaporizkova
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Re: What's Virginia's advantage over Michigan

Postby paulinaporizkova » Wed Jul 11, 2012 8:00 pm

Real Madrid wrote:Its main advantage is that it's much better at gaming the shit out of USNWR's ranking system by accepting tons of splitters and reverse splitters so that it can maintain its wildly inflated medians. Oh, and it's also better at providing shit tons of graduates with school-funded jobs to game the rankings on the back end.

Otherwise, it's more or less equal.


u mad u got rejected?

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2014
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Re: What's Virginia's advantage over Michigan

Postby 2014 » Wed Jul 11, 2012 8:10 pm

mr_toad wrote:
2014 wrote:Michigan's median is 169, UVA's is 170. By paying for 170s Michigan stands to gain, UVA does not.


Not necessarily true unless Michigan is trying to raise its median, which it hasn't shown any sign of doing. Otherwise, 170s are more valuable to UVA to maintain its current median, especially in a year where there are fewer test-takers and thus fewer 170s overall for Penn, Duke, Georgetown (the other 170-median schools off the top of my head).

I imagine Michigan did not appreciate its drop in ranks last year (or rather a failure to rise in ranks while everyone around them succeeded) and an easy solution would be to buy 170s.

Morgan12Oak
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Re: What's Virginia's advantage over Michigan

Postby Morgan12Oak » Wed Jul 11, 2012 8:12 pm

Real Madrid wrote:Its main advantage is that it's much better at gaming the shit out of USNWR's ranking system by accepting tons of splitters and reverse splitters so that it can maintain its wildly inflated medians. Oh, and it's also better at providing shit tons of graduates with school-funded jobs to game the rankings on the back end.

Otherwise, it's more or less equal.


LOL he mad Michigan had 75.46% in jobs requiring a JD. Should have just went to St. Mary's in Texas bro.

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BruceWayne
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Re: What's Virginia's advantage over Michigan

Postby BruceWayne » Wed Jul 11, 2012 8:17 pm

paulinaporizkova wrote:around median or better at Virginia or Michigan when you're trying to get a job in Portland, or Seattle, or Phoenix, or WHEREVER, is not a bad place to be. below median might not be bad either, i'm not sure. the problem sometimes is the people there are entitled and think jobs will fall into their laps when they go to t14s and so they are shocked and surprised when it doesn't happen. people with bad grades have hustled and made it happen. also there are thousands of grads from shitty law schools every year. but UM and UVa have some of the best job prospects in the country. you're trying to make it seem like even t14ers have a 1 in 2 chance of getting a good legal job. that's just not the case. quit being so fucking EMO everyone, MY GOD I hate law students


I don't think you realize how many people in your class don't have median or better grades. Those below that threshold are in very dangerous territory (i.e half of the class). I'm not saying it's all doom and gloom or being "EMO", but I don't think you're as aware of the number of people struggling. This isn't 2007.

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buckilaw
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Re: What's Virginia's advantage over Michigan

Postby buckilaw » Wed Jul 11, 2012 8:18 pm

You can probably buy a properly cooked grit if you're at Virginia, I can't say the same about Ann Arbor.
Last edited by buckilaw on Wed Jul 11, 2012 8:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Morgan12Oak
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Re: What's Virginia's advantage over Michigan

Postby Morgan12Oak » Wed Jul 11, 2012 8:20 pm

Who cares, as fucked as a T-14 grad without a job is, theres 20 more fucked non-T14 grads with just as much debt so you're best of the worse. People worry too much.

paulinaporizkova
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Re: What's Virginia's advantage over Michigan

Postby paulinaporizkova » Wed Jul 11, 2012 8:22 pm

BruceWayne wrote:
paulinaporizkova wrote:around median or better at Virginia or Michigan when you're trying to get a job in Portland, or Seattle, or Phoenix, or WHEREVER, is not a bad place to be. below median might not be bad either, i'm not sure. the problem sometimes is the people there are entitled and think jobs will fall into their laps when they go to t14s and so they are shocked and surprised when it doesn't happen. people with bad grades have hustled and made it happen. also there are thousands of grads from shitty law schools every year. but UM and UVa have some of the best job prospects in the country. you're trying to make it seem like even t14ers have a 1 in 2 chance of getting a good legal job. that's just not the case. quit being so fucking EMO everyone, MY GOD I hate law students


I don't think you realize how many people in your class don't have median or better grades. Those below that threshold are in very dangerous territory (i.e half of the class). I'm not saying it's all doom and gloom or being "EMO", but I don't think you're as aware of the number of people struggling. This isn't 2007.


Which is why I made the disclaimer. Bottom third isn't gonna coast by. They will need OCS help. But if they hustle they can make it happen, in most cases I would say. SOMETHING will work out. Maybe it won't be big law, and that's an argument for keeping debt down wherever you go right now. But the adverse to bottom third not coasting by is that middle third is manageable and top third is cake, by and large.

ze2151
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Re: What's Virginia's advantage over Michigan

Postby ze2151 » Wed Jul 11, 2012 8:31 pm

paulina- bottom third at uva is a bad, bad place to be based on the available data and based on anecdotal evidence i've gathered. no amount of "networking" is going to put you in the room if you don't have the keys to get in the room.

but no, i'm just being "emo" about the situation. b/c any time you have the opportunity to take out 150k dollars in loans with a 33 pct risk of no options and running from bill collectors for your entire adult life, you have to do it.

what you need to do, paulina, is stop kidding yourself that the lower top 14 is somehow insulated from the disaster. it isn't.

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rayiner
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Re: What's Virginia's advantage over Michigan

Postby rayiner » Wed Jul 11, 2012 8:46 pm

paulinaporizkova wrote:Which is why I made the disclaimer. Bottom third isn't gonna coast by. They will need OCS help. But if they hustle they can make it happen, in most cases I would say. SOMETHING will work out. Maybe it won't be big law, and that's an argument for keeping debt down wherever you go right now.


Image

As a C/O 2012 grad from another T14, I have to say that the "SOMETHING" is usually a quite undesirable outcome. Most of my class got big law or a clerkship, a few got a legitimate PI job. The rest didn't get a comfortable $85k small firm job. They have no options worth taking right now. Once you're outside the range of big law, you're off a cliff.

barneytrouble
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Re: What's Virginia's advantage over Michigan

Postby barneytrouble » Wed Jul 11, 2012 9:01 pm

paulinaporizkova wrote:
Real Madrid wrote:Its main advantage is that it's much better at gaming the shit out of USNWR's ranking system by accepting tons of splitters and reverse splitters so that it can maintain its wildly inflated medians. Oh, and it's also better at providing shit tons of graduates with school-funded jobs to game the rankings on the back end.

Otherwise, it's more or less equal.


u mad u got rejected?


im sure hes furious, every other post of his has been filled with UVa hate ever since receiving that rejection letter.

looking at his post history is like DVRing chappelles player hater ball. HATEHATEHATE

Real Madrid
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Re: What's Virginia's advantage over Michigan

Postby Real Madrid » Wed Jul 11, 2012 9:14 pm

paulinaporizkova wrote:
Real Madrid wrote:Its main advantage is that it's much better at gaming the shit out of USNWR's ranking system by accepting tons of splitters and reverse splitters so that it can maintain its wildly inflated medians. Oh, and it's also better at providing shit tons of graduates with school-funded jobs to game the rankings on the back end.

Otherwise, it's more or less equal.


u mad u got rejected?



More like bewildered that a "top 10" school lets in 162, 3.9 sociology majors for the sheer sake of maintaining its "170, 3.85" median. Also glad that I won't be attending the second worst T14 employability-wise according to rayiner's research. :lol:

Real Madrid
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Re: What's Virginia's advantage over Michigan

Postby Real Madrid » Wed Jul 11, 2012 9:20 pm

barneytrouble wrote:
paulinaporizkova wrote:
Real Madrid wrote:Its main advantage is that it's much better at gaming the shit out of USNWR's ranking system by accepting tons of splitters and reverse splitters so that it can maintain its wildly inflated medians. Oh, and it's also better at providing shit tons of graduates with school-funded jobs to game the rankings on the back end.

Otherwise, it's more or less equal.


u mad u got rejected?


im sure hes furious, every other post of his has been filled with UVa hate ever since receiving that rejection letter.

looking at his post history is like DVRing chappelles player hater ball. HATEHATEHATE


I did get rejected, but I also got rejected from Penn and Chicago, and I have nothing against those two schools. I just find UVa's admissions policies to be so blatantly stupid and pathetic that I'm actually embarrassed for the school.

Who knows; maybe if they were a tad bit more holistic they wouldn't be placing one fifth of their graduates in school-funded jobs. :P

Morgan12Oak
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Re: What's Virginia's advantage over Michigan

Postby Morgan12Oak » Wed Jul 11, 2012 9:22 pm

Again, who the fuck cares. T14 is better than about ~200 law schools give or take with many who probably have nearly as much debt, if not more. They're fucked, you may be fucked, who cares.

Attending law school is probably a moral hazard in the sense theres a good chance you'll have debt you can't repay, but you'll never have to pay for that dumb decision - someone will step in the way and bail you out in this country, because thats just the way things are now.

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JamMasterJ
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Re: What's Virginia's advantage over Michigan

Postby JamMasterJ » Wed Jul 11, 2012 9:23 pm

rayiner wrote:
Just wrote:From what I heard, it seems to be hard to get scholarship from UVA with a 170, but for Umich, a 170 can get you at least some money. Is this correct?

So, what's the edge of UVA over umich, except clerkship? Does UVA place better in NYC big laws recently?

Thanks!


Why would the first part of your post have anything to do with the second part? Within the T14, admissions selectivity is only loosely correlated with placement.

Not sure if anyone mentioned this, but on top of this, some of the most selective schools give out a shit-ton of money. See, for instance, H vs Y

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rayiner
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Re: What's Virginia's advantage over Michigan

Postby rayiner » Wed Jul 11, 2012 9:24 pm

Real Madrid wrote:
Who knows; maybe if they were a tad bit more holistic they wouldn't be placing one fifth of their graduates in school-funded jobs. :P


Michigan is pretty holistic and it doesn't seem to be working that great for them.

UVA's problem isn't that it's taking splitters, it's that it isn't taking engineer splitters. Every 172/2.8 engineer that NU takes is a sticker-paying student that's going to pump up the employment stats because he's IPSECURE.
Last edited by rayiner on Wed Jul 11, 2012 9:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

barneytrouble
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Re: What's Virginia's advantage over Michigan

Postby barneytrouble » Wed Jul 11, 2012 9:25 pm

Real Madrid wrote:
barneytrouble wrote:
paulinaporizkova wrote:
Real Madrid wrote:Its main advantage is that it's much better at gaming the shit out of USNWR's ranking system by accepting tons of splitters and reverse splitters so that it can maintain its wildly inflated medians. Oh, and it's also better at providing shit tons of graduates with school-funded jobs to game the rankings on the back end.

Otherwise, it's more or less equal.


u mad u got rejected?


im sure hes furious, every other post of his has been filled with UVa hate ever since receiving that rejection letter.

looking at his post history is like DVRing chappelles player hater ball. HATEHATEHATE


I did get rejected, but I also got rejected from Penn and Chicago, and I have nothing against those two schools. I just find UVa's admissions policies to be so blatantly stupid and pathetic that I'm actually embarrassed for the school.

Who knows; maybe if they were a tad bit more holistic they wouldn't be placing one fifth of their graduates in school-funded jobs. :P


What can I say about your posts that hasn't been said about Afghanistan?

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JamMasterJ
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Re: What's Virginia's advantage over Michigan

Postby JamMasterJ » Wed Jul 11, 2012 9:37 pm

rayiner wrote:
Real Madrid wrote:
Who knows; maybe if they were a tad bit more holistic they wouldn't be placing one fifth of their graduates in school-funded jobs. :P


Michigan is pretty holistic and it doesn't seem to be working that great for them.

UVA's problem isn't that it's taking splitters, it's that it isn't taking engineer splitters. Every 172/2.8 engineer that NU takes is a sticker-paying student that's going to pump up the employment stats because he's IPSECURE.

except crumpetsandtea, though she's biglaw secure

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soj
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Re: What's Virginia's advantage over Michigan

Postby soj » Wed Jul 11, 2012 9:39 pm

Real Madrid wrote:More like bewildered that a "top 10" school lets in 162, 3.9 sociology majors for the sheer sake of maintaining its "170, 3.85" median.

Aren't you going to Berkeley?




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