Michigan State U (MSU Law) or SUNY Buffalo Law School? Forum

[blackprism2]

Which TTT and what is your class rank?

Not disclosing which school (wouldn't want to cause defamation now ), but top 25%

Apparently any school not within the Top 20 list is not worth going to and people who apply/attend them should just jump into a ditch right? I'm sorry but the world doesn't work like that. Events happen in people's lives that prevent them from attaining what they could have... not ALL OF US have the time to just live in our parent's basement, study, and have someone wipe our asses for us.

I really do appreciate the comments regarding which school I should choose (whether it be experience or statistics), but I see no reason for people to belittle others' situation.

1. The top-20 comment is not true in the slightest. If someone wants to practice in NY and is choosing between Fordham and another lower-ranked school outside of NY, we will advise them accordingly. Most of the time, no one will tell you to jump in a ditch. They will just try to prevent you from taking on a crippling amount of debt at a school that features bad outcomes.

2. The whole live in our parent's basement and study thing? Utterly insulting. Many of us, like myself, worked full fucking time and managed to pay the bills and still study and do well.

So I'm not going to tell you to jump into a ditch for picking between a SUNY and MSU. I'm going to tell you to jump into a ditch for being a jerk.

But all things considered, pick MSU.

Sorry if I offended you, I did not mean to offend the non-trolls.

And is there a specific reason why you would suggest MSU? Better reputation? Better surrounding community?

[catholicgirl]

Which TTT and what is your class rank?

Not disclosing which school (wouldn't want to cause defamation now ), but top 25%

Apparently any school not within the Top 20 list is not worth going to and people who apply/attend them should just jump into a ditch right? I'm sorry but the world doesn't work like that. Events happen in people's lives that prevent them from attaining what they could have... not ALL OF US have the time to just live in our parent's basement, study, and have someone wipe our asses for us.

I really do appreciate the comments regarding which school I should choose (whether it be experience or statistics), but I see no reason for people to belittle others' situation.

1. The top-20 comment is not true in the slightest. If someone wants to practice in NY and is choosing between Fordham and another lower-ranked school outside of NY, we will advise them accordingly. Most of the time, no one will tell you to jump in a ditch. They will just try to prevent you from taking on a crippling amount of debt at a school that features bad outcomes.

2. The whole live in our parent's basement and study thing? Utterly insulting. Many of us, like myself, worked full fucking time and managed to pay the bills and still study and do well.

So I'm not going to tell you to jump into a ditch for picking between a SUNY and MSU. I'm going to tell you to jump into a ditch for being a jerk.

But all things considered, pick MSU.

Sorry if I offended you, I did not mean to offend the non-trolls.

And is there a specific reason why you would suggest MSU? Better reputation? Better surrounding community?

Mostly if you get trapped by your degree, it might be harder to compete in NY as opposed to MI. Not that getting a job is easy from either school.

[blackprism2]

Sadly I have already completed my 1L year and it's too late to stop now. Might as well finish what i've started.

Trying to make the best of a non-optimal situation. But as I said in my OP, I will most likely come back to Canada to practice so job opportunities in state is not a huge consideration for me.

[flem]

Which school it is matters though. The difference between schools like Mercer and NYLS is big. If its not a serious festering TTT it doesn't make a big difference in your prospects at top 25%. Either one is a fairly lateral move, especially given you don't want to work in their regions. In Canada no one is going to be blown away by SUNY Buffalo's lay prestige.

[PatrickChewing15]

I don't know anything about MSU, but I've spent my whole life in the Buffalo area so I'd just like to dispel the myth that Buffalo is a festering shit hole. First of all, UB's North Campus where the law school is located is in a nice suburban town. Secondly, the city itself is not really bad. Yes there are bad areas, but there are bad areas in every city. There's also no reason to ever have to be near them. I've walked home roughly 3 miles down Main St. from Downtown after 4 am on multiple occasions and never been hassled or felt unsafe. There's also plenty of things to do entertainment wise in and around the city. Lastly, it is an incredibly cheap city to live in. I've had 3 different apartments all in desirable areas and with roommates. My monthly cut of the rent was $250, $260, and $225.

I wont comment on employment prospects and getting back to Ontario because I don't know much about them. I was under the impression that if you want to work in the Western New York area it isn't a bad choice to make. At the same time everyone I know who goes there pays in state tuition with scholarships and wont be graduating with much debt.

Just didn't want you to rule out UB because one person who spent a few days here said something about homeless people. I honestly see a homeless person maybe once a month and that's living in the middle of the City itself. If you went to UB I would assume you'd live in Amherst nowhere near the homeless.

[PennBull]

I don't know anything about MSU, but I've spent my whole life in the Buffalo area so I'd just like to dispel the myth that Buffalo is a festering shit hole. First of all, UB's North Campus where the law school is located is in a nice suburban town. Secondly, the city itself is not really bad. Yes there are bad areas, but there are bad areas in every city. There's also no reason to ever have to be near them. I've walked home roughly 3 miles down Main St. from Downtown after 4 am on multiple occasions and never been hassled or felt unsafe. There's also plenty of things to do entertainment wise in and around the city. Lastly, it is an incredibly cheap city to live in. I've had 3 different apartments all in desirable areas and with roommates. My monthly cut of the rent was $250, $260, and $225.

I wont comment on employment prospects and getting back to Ontario because I don't know much about them. I was under the impression that if you want to work in the Western New York area it isn't a bad choice to make. At the same time everyone I know who goes there pays in state tuition with scholarships and wont be graduating with much debt.

Just didn't want you to rule out UB because one person who spent a few days here said something about homeless people. I honestly see a homeless person maybe once a month and that's living in the middle of the City itself. If you went to UB I would assume you'd live in Amherst nowhere near the homeless.

Beat me to it.

OP, I graduated the University at Buffalo for undergrad. Everything PatrickChewing said is absolutely correct. For me, I absolutely love the school and think it's a fantastic area to be in school. It is not in downtown--it is in suburban, friendly Amherst. Many areas of downtown are fun to party in and enjoy.

As far as employment goes, the University at Buffalo places extremely well in Buffalo and Rochester. People who don't know anything about the area will see the rank and assume it's just another TT that charges high tuition and can't place it's graduates anywhere. The truth is, it's the only school in western New York, and throughout all of upstate it is much more respected as a law school than Syracuse or Albany. It outperforms it's rank, in my opinion. It does not have to deal with the fierce competition from neighboring schools like MSU would.

As far as Canada is concerned, I recommend you call the Admissions Department, and ask to be put in contact with a student who plans on going back to Canada. Many students do it from UB. Forming a specific plan requires anecdotal evidence, strategy, and backup plans.

[rickgrimes69]

Apparently any school not within the Top 20 list is not worth going to and people who apply/attend them should just jump into a ditch right? I'm sorry but the world doesn't work like that. Events happen in people's lives that prevent them from attaining what they could have... not ALL OF US have the time to just live in our parent's basement, study, and have someone wipe our asses for us.

That's a poor excuse for your own failure and besides, you're being an asshole. I studied for my LSAT over five months while attending UG full time and simultaneously working part time to pay for it, and I can promise nobody wiped my ass but me.

[bogart]

Buffalo is not above nor is it below syracuse or albany. throughout all of ny they are considered peer schools, nothing more, nothing less. to say otherwise is a complete and total false statement.

[PennBull]

Buffalo is not above nor is it below syracuse or albany.throughout all of ny they are considered peer schools, nothing more, nothing less. to say otherwise is a complete and total false statement.

You're right, it is west of both schools.

[bogart]

Buffalo is not above nor is it below syracuse or albany.throughout all of ny they are considered peer schools, nothing more, nothing less. to say otherwise is a complete and total false statement.

You're right, it is west of both schools.

Cute.......but your still full of shit if you think that anyone in new york ranks it below or above albany, cuse, pace, st. johns, hof, etc....

Perhaps your 0L?

[PennBull]

Buffalo is not above nor is it below syracuse or albany.throughout all of ny they are considered peer schools, nothing more, nothing less. to say otherwise is a complete and total false statement.

You're right, it is west of both schools.

Cute.......but your still full of shit if you think that anyone in new york ranks it below or above albany, cuse, pace, st. johns, hof, etc....

Perhaps your 0L?

Perhaps you're a recent jobless Syracuse grad?

I'm from WNY. I know for a fact that UB places much better in Roch/Buffalo by a significant margin over those other schools. Sorry you chose the wrong school to go to and paid too much to do it. Go home.

[JCFindley]

No need to knock people that do well on the LSAT, many sat out for a year just to do it and busted their humps waiting tables or whatever just to improve their LS choices.

That said, no reason to knock either of the schools you are looking at now as it is no longer productive. You simply ARE in the situation you are in and now it is time to make the best of it. Whether these two schools would be the best choice if you were an 0L is completely irrelevant at this point in the game.

MSU pluses.... Big Ten football. Name recognition. An up and coming school. You can get a job in the UP which is pretty much Canada anyway. (That is not sarcasm, I LOVE the UP of MI)
MSU Minuses...Big Ten football. Having to overcome its placement in a state where the recovery is a ways away. Can't do the Canada thing as a transfer.

Buff pluses. The Bills are WAY better than the Lions. You are darned close to Canada and have the Canadian thing working as a transfer. Buffalo is in fact a cool city if you can take the winter. Places well in upstate NY and most of the big name NY schools have grads focusing on NYC so your real competition is from peer schools. Every so often you get to play an SEC team as their tuneup or homecoming game so you can watch some real college football and cheer for a few first downs.
Buff minuses..... Can't really think of any relative to the situation.

If it were me in said situation, I would go SUNY.

[jne381]

Buff pluses. The Bills are WAY better than the Lions.

This is bullshit.

[jne381]

Things to keep in mind is that I am a dual U.S.-Canada citizen and plan to possibly practice in Ontario when I graduate. So far I am leaning slightly more towards SUNY Buffalo Law since I have heard that one can use their legal license in New York as well as in Ontario (some form of agreement across the border). However I have also heard that New York has the hardest BAR of all the states and this is another factor I am factoring in.

If this is true, am pretty sure where you go to school wouldn't matter. You can go to MSU and take the NY Bar.

[jas1503]

I'm from NY. I've visited people in Buffalo before, and never in a million years would I want to spend 3 years there. Walking "downtown" reminded me of 28 days later as the only people outside were homeless people..

All of THIS!

As someone that spent about 3 years in Buffalo, I will suggest to you that it's the worse place on the planet Earth. Mind you, I've spent several days in a Central American prison and I would welcome that experience over Buffalo every day of any week.

Anecdotal aside, check the stats, you can not compare it to Syracuse. Syracuse has some of the best joint JD programs in the country. I have no idea who is going to hire you after your UB law degree, but I'm rooting for you if you go that route.

Go to MSU, if you MUST go.

[PennBull]

Anecdotal aside, check the stats, you can not compare it to Syracuse.

Yes you can.

Syracuse has some of the best joint JD programs in the country.

No they don't, and they don't matter anyways. Law firms and government offices aren't hiring you for whatever shit MA you got with your JD.

I have no idea who is going to hire you after your UB law degree

Employers in Rochester and Buffalo.

I have spent my entire life in these cities before law school. People like me will not be returning with our degrees to those cities, and they are left choosing between UB and Syracuse (and something called an Albany Law School). For Buffalo, they immensely prefer UB, and in Rochester, they have a strong preference for UB.

[alpha kenny body]

BUFFALO FTW

[taxnstuff]

Yes they hire UB grads first and foremost in Buffalo and Rochester, but those cities are dying. Even if you get a job who knows when it will disappear.

[westinghouse60]

means less than a velvet painting of a whale and a dolphin getting it on

LOL

[jas1503]

Anecdotal aside, check the stats, you can not compare it to Syracuse.

Yes you can.

Syracuse has some of the best joint JD programs in the country.

No they don't, and they don't matter anyways. Law firms and government offices aren't hiring you for whatever shit MA you got with your JD.

I have no idea who is going to hire you after your UB law degree

Employers in Rochester and Buffalo.

I have spent my entire life in these cities before law school. People like me will not be returning with our degrees to those cities, and they are left choosing between UB and Syracuse (and something called an Albany Law School). For Buffalo, they immensely prefer UB, and in Rochester, they have a strong preference for UB.

Not a Stato, but you're comparing the 62nd ranked school in the country to the 112th ranked one.

Syracuse Program rankings: http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandrevie ... l-rankings

Buffalo Program rankings:http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandrevie ... l-rankings

I don't see why it wouldn't be beneficial to couple your Syracuse JD with a Public Affairs MA/something else from the school--especially in comparison to getting a Buffalo JD alone. if you most likely can't find a law job after graduating, your joint-degree from Syracuse could still be useful by itself, if you want to work in the Public sector.

OP, you need to check those Law School Transparency employment stats for both schools again.

[rad lulz]

lol the USNWR rankings don't matter for schools of this caliber.

[PennBull]

Not a Stato, but you're comparing the 62nd ranked school in the country to the 112th ranked one.

Overall program ranks for a student considering law school are as important as what you had for breakfast. Oh, and:

lol the USNWR rankings don't matter for schools of this caliber.

I don't see why it wouldn't be beneficial to couple your Syracuse JD with a Public Affairs MA/something else from the school--especially in comparison to getting a Buffalo JD alone.

Because the joint degrees don't matter worth a shit. Employers are not going to care about what shitty MA in some shitty liberal arts you got. They are going to care about a.) your grades, b.) where you went to school, and c.) why you want to be in that city. You're paying more than twice as much for a school that places worse in the 2nd and 3rd biggest cities in New York. If you want to be in Syracuse/Binghamton when you graduate, by all means have fun in effin central New York.

if you most likely can't find a law job after graduating, your joint-degree from Syracuse could still be useful by itself, if you want to work in the Public sector.

It's not like UB is a shitty school. If one cared about the availability of contingency plans, UB has plenty of options that would do the same shit that Syracuse does. Oh, and the fact that Buffalo/Rochester employers as a whole prefer UB.

[jas1503]

lol the USNWR rankings don't matter for schools of this caliber.

Agreed. I wouldn't do MSU or SUNY Buffalo or Syracuse Law in this economy!

[ze2151]

oh god, op. drop out now and cut your losses. that is the honest to goodness best advice you could heed.

tfleming isn't being an "elitist douchebag." he's trying to tell you a difficult truth.

please, PLEASE, visit lawschooltransparency.com and just click around for a while before you cut even one more check.

[jas1503]

Not a Stato, but you're comparing the 62nd ranked school in the country to the 112th ranked one.

Overall program ranks for a student considering law school are as important as what you had for breakfast. Oh, and:

lol the USNWR rankings don't matter for schools of this caliber.

I don't see why it wouldn't be beneficial to couple your Syracuse JD with a Public Affairs MA/something else from the school--especially in comparison to getting a Buffalo JD alone.

Because the joint degrees don't matter worth a shit. Employers are not going to care about what shitty MA in some shitty liberal arts you got. They are going to care about a.) your grades, b.) where you went to school, and c.) why you want to be in that city. You're paying more than twice as much for a school that places worse in the 2nd and 3rd biggest cities in New York. If you want to be in Syracuse/Binghamton when you graduate, by all means have fun in effin central New York.

if you most likely can't find a law job after graduating, your joint-degree from Syracuse could still be useful by itself, if you want to work in the Public sector.

It's not like UB is a shitty school. If one cared about the availability of contingency plans, UB has plenty of options that would do the same shit that Syracuse does. Oh, and the fact that Buffalo/Rochester employers as a whole prefer UB.

We are not debating about law schools, I wouldn't recommend that OP attends Syracuse or UB for law school. You made a statement about Syracuse being on the 'same level' as UB, so I'm disagree with that. Overall, Syracuse is a much better school and has better ranked programs/recognition than UB.

A liberal arts degree from Buffalo might be sh*t, but that's not the case for Syracuse. They have 2 of the best ranked programs in the country. Some of the liberal arts programs at Syracuse are on par with HYS and Cornell, NYU, and Columbia in NewYork; Buffalo's programs are not on par with any of the top schools in the nation. Check the stats.

I can't speak to what employers prefer in Western/Central NY, but Syracuse is better recognized outside of those areas than UB.

I'm not telling him to attend Syracuse Law; I'm telling him not to attend UB Law.

ETA:

please, PLEASE, visit lawschooltransparency.com and just click around for a while before you cut even one more check.