Help: UIUC ($$$ 66%) vs. SLU Law (full scholly $$$$)

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What would you choose?

SLU Law (1843 Scholar)
14
40%
UIUC (66% scholarship)
21
60%
 
Total votes: 35

lawyerwannabe
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Re: Help: UIUC ($$$ 66%) vs. SLU Law (full scholly $$$$)

Postby lawyerwannabe » Thu Jul 05, 2012 5:50 pm

Samara wrote:
Philipsssssss wrote:Is there a way out of this whole situation by doing a Federal Clerkship over 2L for example and then pave a road to BigLaw?

Good clerkships are even harder to get than biglaw, so unless your mom or dad is a federal judge, nope.


Beat me to it.

Also, just looked up SLU's class of 2011 placement according to the sticky in the "Choosing Law School" forum: less than 10% of the class gets BigLaw + Fed. Clerkship. So going to SLU may not cost you much out-of-pocket money but remember that over this time you could have been earning a salary. Chances are close to 50/50 you will even be able to land a job in the legal field out of SLU. Chances are closer to 90% you will not increase your earning potential.

Though it would not be fun to forego law school because of your preparation, sometimes people need to cut there losses. There is no reason to put your life on hold for three more years by attending SLU.

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Birdnals
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Re: Help: UIUC ($$$ 66%) vs. SLU Law (full scholly $$$$)

Postby Birdnals » Thu Jul 05, 2012 5:52 pm

Philipsssssss wrote:First, I would like to thank everyone for their time and suggestions.


Without quoting the above folks, I will add that dropping the idea of law school is pretty scary, because I almost put my life on hold for the past 2 years taking and retaking the LSAT, working to graduate with my Master's degree, working, all while looking forward to attend law school some day. With respect to becoming a CPA (I am slowwwwly studying for this exam ... slowwwwly ...), I don't know if I really want to be stuck in the accounting field all my life. Nevertheless, I do understand that neither option is superb, as compared to those folks who attend t14 schools.

From what I understand:

1) If I go to SLU and want to do some type of BigLaw, I better graduate in the top 10-20%, and even then nothing is guaranteed...
2) UIUC ... better school, but still mostly a regional reach...
3) The debt level I am going to accumulate from UIUC is reasonable, but still shitty when combined with my UG debt.

Is there a way out of this whole situation by doing a Federal Clerkship over 2L for example and then pave a road to BigLaw?

Not everyone can attend a t14 school, and I am not sure if I could even swallow 60k debt a year from UVA if I get admitted (from the emails I got, I am still in a favorable waitlist spot, just waiting for someone to drop out).

If you don’t want to work in St. Louis for the rest of your life, then don’t go to SLU. The main strength of the school is they have an extremely loyal alumni network within in the city that takes care of most their grads with decent (not biglaw) jobs. I believe LST should give you an idea about what percentage of their grads end up outside of Missouri, and know when they are saying “Illinois” more often than not that means a city just outside of St. Louis and not Chicago.

Are you originally from St. Louis/can vigorously discuss the reasons CBC is a superior to Vianny? If not then top 10-20% for STL biglaw is dreaming. Maybe top 5 you will have a chance.

I am from St. Louis, and have friends at SLU, and it is a great option with that scholarship, but not for your goals. I would rather have a gold fork than a silver knife, but not for cutting a steak. Get what I’m saying?

lawyerwannabe
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Re: Help: UIUC ($$$ 66%) vs. SLU Law (full scholly $$$$)

Postby lawyerwannabe » Thu Jul 05, 2012 5:55 pm

Ludovico Technique wrote:Clerkships are insanely competitive. If you have the grades for those then you'd have the grades for biglaw. I would take Illinois easily in this situation (or uva if you get in). Better job prospects and you don't like the market that like 90% of SLU grads end up in


Only about half of UIUC class of 2011 graduates have legal jobs. Less than 20% got BigLaw + Federal Clerkship. OP already has $32k in debt. By the time he graduates, with interest, he will be in the hole over $100k. Thus, going to UIUC should not even really be in the poll. The poll should be "SLU vs. don't go".

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flem
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Re: Help: UIUC ($$$ 66%) vs. SLU Law (full scholly $$$$)

Postby flem » Thu Jul 05, 2012 5:58 pm

Bro you're just going to be pushing paper no matter what, being a lawyer isn't really fun or exciting. Go work for a Big4 accounting firm and climb the ladder. At least you can actually get a job as an accountant with your current credentials. It'll pay you as much or more than non-biglaw work will and you don't have to incur additional debt to do so.

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romothesavior
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Re: Help: UIUC ($$$ 66%) vs. SLU Law (full scholly $$$$)

Postby romothesavior » Sat Jul 07, 2012 11:04 am

Your odds of biglaw (and by biglaw I mean NLJ 250, so including secondary big firms and the like) are not good from either. Small at UIUC and virtually nonexistent at SLU. Top 20% at SLU won't cut it.

Unless you want STL or the surrounding metro area, don't go to SLU. Simple as that.

Also sounds like you should think long and hard about whether law school is even right for you.

Hutz_and_Goodman
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Re: Help: UIUC ($$$ 66%) vs. SLU Law (full scholly $$$$)

Postby Hutz_and_Goodman » Sat Jul 07, 2012 11:31 am

OP: you may be interested in this thread:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=187209

My advice:
1. Ask SLU how many 1843 scholarships are given out each year
2. Ask them to put you in touch with current 2Ls abd 3Ls that have it
3. Use google to find out what happened to class of 2008, 2009, 2010 recipients
of this scholarship

It can definitely be the case that even at a lower school the job placement of named scholarship students is excellent. It is not an exaggeration to say that for some T1 schools the placement for named scholarship students is as good as the general placement at a T14 or better (meaning the majority of recipients get big law). Do your homework before committing either way.

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Philipsssssss
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Re: Help: UIUC ($$$ 66%) vs. SLU Law (full scholly $$$$)

Postby Philipsssssss » Wed Jul 18, 2012 5:47 pm

Hutz_and_Goodman wrote:OP: you may be interested in this thread:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=187209

My advice:
1. Ask SLU how many 1843 scholarships are given out each year
2. Ask them to put you in touch with current 2Ls abd 3Ls that have it
3. Use google to find out what happened to class of 2008, 2009, 2010 recipients
of this scholarship

It can definitely be the case that even at a lower school the job placement of named scholarship students is excellent. It is not an exaggeration to say that for some T1 schools the placement for named scholarship students is as good as the general placement at a T14 or better (meaning the majority of recipients get big law). Do your homework before committing either way.


That's a good point. I am doing my research and trying to find out who I can interview with respect to their success in the legal world, perticularly 1843 Scholars who graduated in years past.

I don't think that I will enjoy being stuck in Saint Louis or surrounding metropolitan areas for the rest of my life. I am aiming a bit more towards Chicago. However, I wonder whether a debt free SLU grad plus a pretty good resume overall (I been employed for 4 years now) can have a good chance to land a good job in Chicago. I guess 90K per year with no debt is better than 160k a year with 100k in debt .... or maybe not.

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rickgrimes69
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Re: Help: UIUC ($$$ 66%) vs. SLU Law (full scholly $$$$)

Postby rickgrimes69 » Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:02 am

Philipsssssss wrote:
Hutz_and_Goodman wrote:OP: you may be interested in this thread:

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=187209

My advice:
1. Ask SLU how many 1843 scholarships are given out each year
2. Ask them to put you in touch with current 2Ls abd 3Ls that have it
3. Use google to find out what happened to class of 2008, 2009, 2010 recipients
of this scholarship

It can definitely be the case that even at a lower school the job placement of named scholarship students is excellent. It is not an exaggeration to say that for some T1 schools the placement for named scholarship students is as good as the general placement at a T14 or better (meaning the majority of recipients get big law). Do your homework before committing either way.


That's a good point. I am doing my research and trying to find out who I can interview with respect to their success in the legal world, perticularly 1843 Scholars who graduated in years past.

I don't think that I will enjoy being stuck in Saint Louis or surrounding metropolitan areas for the rest of my life. I am aiming a bit more towards Chicago. However, I wonder whether a debt free SLU grad plus a pretty good resume overall (I been employed for 4 years now) can have a good chance to land a good job in Chicago. I guess 90K per year with no debt is better than 160k a year with 100k in debt .... or maybe not.


It might be, but this will almost certainly not be your dilemma. Try 60k vs 160k. It's also unlikely that anything you did pre-LS will be relevant in finding a legal job.

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romothesavior
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Re: Help: UIUC ($$$ 66%) vs. SLU Law (full scholly $$$$)

Postby romothesavior » Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:09 am

60k would be a pretty damn good outcome from SLU, as would 160k from UIUC. 90k from SLU would be among the very highest outcomes in the class.

So OP, you shouldn't think like this. Think about your outcome at median from either school, and go from there.

dudders
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Re: Help: UIUC ($$$ 66%) vs. SLU Law (full scholly $$$$)

Postby dudders » Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:11 am

Philipsssssss wrote: I wouldn't mind a judicial clerkship as well. I heard that 1843 Scholars get decent placement in Title IV federal clerkships.


Philipsssssss wrote:Is there a way out of this whole situation by doing a Federal Clerkship over 2L for example and then pave a road to BigLaw?


In the most constructive way possible, I don't think you even know what a clerkship is. You have some serious research to do about 1) clerkships, 2) the schools you are considering, and 3) the realities of the legal market.

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Philipsssssss
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Re: Help: UIUC ($$$ 66%) vs. SLU Law (full scholly $$$$)

Postby Philipsssssss » Mon Jul 30, 2012 6:14 am

romothesavior wrote:60k would be a pretty damn good outcome from SLU, as would 160k from UIUC. 90k from SLU would be among the very highest outcomes in the class.

So OP, you shouldn't think like this. Think about your outcome at median from either school, and go from there.



I just checked and all of my federal loans to date are $47K. So now I wonder if UIUC's extra cost of attendence is worth it.

Damn.

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Philipsssssss
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Re: Help: UIUC ($$$ 66%) vs. SLU Law (full scholly $$$$)

Postby Philipsssssss » Mon Jul 30, 2012 6:16 am

dudders wrote:
Philipsssssss wrote: I wouldn't mind a judicial clerkship as well. I heard that 1843 Scholars get decent placement in Title IV federal clerkships.


Philipsssssss wrote:Is there a way out of this whole situation by doing a Federal Clerkship over 2L for example and then pave a road to BigLaw?


In the most constructive way possible, I don't think you even know what a clerkship is. You have some serious research to do about 1) clerkships, 2) the schools you are considering, and 3) the realities of the legal market.


I only have 2 choiuces, SLU or UIUC. UVA and WAshU still keeping me on the waitlist. But I consider these two WL's as a no go anyways. too late.

So if you were in my shoes, with $47K of loans to date, would you still suck up the extra tuition + fees loans from UIUC? Approx. 70K for 3 years...

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flem
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Re: Help: UIUC ($$$ 66%) vs. SLU Law (full scholly $$$$)

Postby flem » Mon Jul 30, 2012 8:20 am

Philipsssssss wrote:I only have 2 choiuces, SLU or UIUC. UVA and WAshU still keeping me on the waitlist. But I consider these two WL's as a no go anyways. too late.

So if you were in my shoes, with $47K of loans to date, would you still suck up the extra tuition + fees loans from UIUC? Approx. 70K for 3 years...


How long until you can retake again?

SLU is the right price but is incompatible with your goals, whereas UIUC becomes pretty expensive when you take your UG debt into account. Neither is a particularly good fit.

Gunna4Life
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Re: Help: UIUC ($$$ 66%) vs. SLU Law (full scholly $$$$)

Postby Gunna4Life » Mon Jul 30, 2012 8:53 am

go to SLU and then transfer into the t14. Youll be a lock

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top30man
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Re: Help: UIUC ($$$ 66%) vs. SLU Law (full scholly $$$$)

Postby top30man » Mon Jul 30, 2012 9:10 am

Gunna4Life wrote:go to SLU and then transfer into the t14. Youll be a lock

Hopefully he's either joking or trolling. OP, 47k from undergrad is no small amount of money. I think that makes UIUC too expensive.

timbs4339
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Re: Help: UIUC ($$$ 66%) vs. SLU Law (full scholly $$$$)

Postby timbs4339 » Mon Jul 30, 2012 11:04 am

OP: What do you think a federal clerkship is?

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romothesavior
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Re: Help: UIUC ($$$ 66%) vs. SLU Law (full scholly $$$$)

Postby romothesavior » Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:46 pm

timbs4339 wrote:OP: What do you think a federal clerkship is?

Isn't that just like a summer internship with a judge? I know plenty of people who go those. NBD.

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Philipsssssss
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Re: Help: UIUC ($$$ 66%) vs. SLU Law (full scholly $$$$)

Postby Philipsssssss » Tue Aug 14, 2012 9:07 am

I ended up choosing UIUC. Based on numerous discussions with lawyers and judges, the general idea I got was that law school, or any other 'final' professional school in your education career, should be a school with a name recognition and good/better placement opportunities.

The UG and G debt will suck and be a huge burden when coupled with Law School debt, but I guess that is something I have to take a chance on.

I made my decision little more then a week ago, so I will hope for the best. I realized that while SLU can offer me peace of mind with respect to debt after graduation, there is only a 10% chance that I will end up in a big market outside saint louis, let alone in a big law position. I guess UIUC isn't Harvard by any means placement wise, but it does open both the Saint Louis market and the Chicago market for consideration, at the minumum.


@ Question about:

Federal Clerkship: My general understanding: Very hard to get, high grades are required... Internship for a Judge...can open plenty of doors down the road...

rad lulz
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Re: Help: UIUC ($$$ 66%) vs. SLU Law (full scholly $$$$)

Postby rad lulz » Tue Aug 14, 2012 12:20 pm

Philipsssssss wrote:I ended up choosing UIUC. Based on numerous discussions with lawyers and judges, the general idea I got was that law school, or any other 'final' professional school in your education career, should be a school with a name recognition and good/better placement opportunities.

The UG and G debt will suck and be a huge burden when coupled with Law School debt, but I guess that is something I have to take a chance on.

I made my decision little more then a week ago, so I will hope for the best. I realized that while SLU can offer me peace of mind with respect to debt after graduation, there is only a 10% chance that I will end up in a big market outside saint louis, let alone in a big law position. I guess UIUC isn't Harvard by any means placement wise, but it does open both the Saint Louis market and the Chicago market for consideration, at the minumum.


@ Question about:

Federal Clerkship: My general understanding: Very hard to get, high grades are required... Internship for a Judge...can open plenty of doors down the road...

You done goofed. You should have been an accountant until you paid off your UG loans. Boomer judges and lawyers often have no idea whatsoever what the employment situation is like for current grads.

timbs4339
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Re: Help: UIUC ($$$ 66%) vs. SLU Law (full scholly $$$$)

Postby timbs4339 » Tue Aug 14, 2012 5:55 pm

Philipsssssss wrote:Federal Clerkship: My general understanding: Very hard to get, high grades are required... Internship for a Judge...can open plenty of doors down the road...


A federal clerkship is not an "internship," it is a full-time job after law school, usually for 1 or 2 years. It's hard, usually much harder to get, than biglaw, and so almost everyone who gets one did a biglaw SA their 2L or could have gotten one. I could probably count the number of UIUC grads with A3 federal clerkships on one hand. "Title IV federal clerkships" are not a thing.

"Judicial internships" are not easy to get, but there are a lot more of them because they are unpaid. They will usually not lead to a full-time clerkship after law school if your grades/school are not there.

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quiver
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Re: Help: UIUC ($$$ 66%) vs. SLU Law (full scholly $$$$)

Postby quiver » Tue Aug 14, 2012 8:09 pm

timbs4339 wrote:
Philipsssssss wrote:Federal Clerkship: My general understanding: Very hard to get, high grades are required... Internship for a Judge...can open plenty of doors down the road...


A federal clerkship is not an "internship," it is a full-time job after law school, usually for 1 or 2 years. It's hard, usually much harder to get, than biglaw, and so almost everyone who gets one did a biglaw SA their 2L or could have gotten one. I could probably count the number of UIUC grads with A3 federal clerkships on one hand. "Title IV federal clerkships" are not a thing.

"Judicial internships" are not easy to get, but there are a lot more of them because they are unpaid. They will usually not lead to a full-time clerkship after law school if your grades/school are not there.
I'm glad someone said this, especially the bolded.

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romothesavior
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Re: Help: UIUC ($$$ 66%) vs. SLU Law (full scholly $$$$)

Postby romothesavior » Wed Aug 15, 2012 12:21 am

Yeah... no...

Clerkship is nothing at all like internship.




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