PLEASE HELP! Fordham (sticker) vs. CUNY

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

CUNY(~$40,000) or Fordham(~$150,000)?

CUNY
36
51%
Fordham
34
49%
 
Total votes: 70

BlackOctober
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PLEASE HELP! Fordham (sticker) vs. CUNY

Postby BlackOctober » Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:00 pm

Hey everyone, I am having an incredibly difficult time choosing between attending Fordham for $150,000 total, and CUNY for a little less than $14,000/yr. I would be living at home and commuting to both of these schools, so a bit of expense would be saved there. I am CONSTANTLY going back and forth between these two schools, particularly because of money, and could use all the advice I can get. I am very interested in PI. Thanks a lot!

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taxnstuff
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Re: PLEASE HELP! Fordham (sticker) vs. CUNY

Postby taxnstuff » Tue Jul 03, 2012 9:50 am

CUNY unless you have a safety net moneywise. I am also very debt averse once the number goes over 75k.

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flem
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Re: PLEASE HELP! Fordham (sticker) vs. CUNY

Postby flem » Tue Jul 03, 2012 9:54 am

Are you PI or bust? Like, can you demonstrate actual interest? Or are you PI like most people and you'd go through OCI at Fordham with everyone else?

BlackOctober
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Re: PLEASE HELP! Fordham (sticker) vs. CUNY

Postby BlackOctober » Tue Jul 03, 2012 12:20 pm

PI is what I could honestly see myself enjoying and practicing for the length of a career, but I'm also interested in Criminal. If I was spending that sort of money at Fordham, I would probably feel obliged to go through OCI.

Also, I'm not sure what my debt would look like once out of Fordham, but I'm so afraid to spend $150,000 on a legal education ITE. Especially, if I'm so interested in PI and could attend CUNY. However, I'm a total sucker for the rankings and the pride that the Fordham name would give me is hard to let go.

Thanks for all of your replies so far!

locthebloke
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Re: PLEASE HELP! Fordham (sticker) vs. CUNY

Postby locthebloke » Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:15 pm

Sigh, CUNY if you must, and it's not even close. You're not going to find a legal job as a CUNY grad, but at least the school is cheap and your debt won't be life ruining, especially if you're commuting from home.

It's a no brainer friend. I honestly can't even fathom why you'd consider Fordham. What upside is there? Especially if you want to do PI. At least CUNY has a niche reputation as being a PI school.

Why would you EVER consider dropping 150k on Fordham. You won't find a job. You have to compete with Columbia, NYU and Cornell grads for jobs in an already hideously oversaturated NY law market. Not too mention the other Ivies feed heavily into NY. Think it's not going to matter because you want to do PI? Think top school grads aren't fighting for PI jobs in a desirable city like NY? Think again.

BlackOctober wrote:However, I'm a total sucker for the rankings and the pride that the Fordham name would give me is hard to let go


Pfffffftt! Haha I'm sorry to be nasty but are you fucking kidding me? Get your head out of the sand, friend. A market filled with Columbia, NYU, Cornell and out of state Ivy grads and you think the "Fordham name" is going to do anything for you?? They'll all be ahead of you in the interview line, bud.

BlackOctober
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Re: PLEASE HELP! Fordham (sticker) vs. CUNY

Postby BlackOctober » Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:33 pm

I suppose that the "upside" of Fordham is that it is ranked far higher than CUNY, and is generally considered a more respected/prestigious school. I am considering dropping 150k because I have always believed Fordham to be an admirable law school, and somewhere I'd be proud to attend. In addition, I feel like an acceptance into Fordham gives credit to my undergraduate GPA and LSAT (where as I could have done considerably worse and probably still been accepted to CUNY). Also, I have it in my head that I have a better chance of getting a job graduating from Fordham-- even though it is nowhere close to guaranteed at either/or any school. Whether or not all that is worth the money Fordham requires is why I'm here.

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Bronck
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Re: PLEASE HELP! Fordham (sticker) vs. CUNY

Postby Bronck » Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:36 pm

BlackOctober wrote:I suppose that the "upside" of Fordham is that it is ranked far higher than CUNY, and is generally considered a more respected/prestigious school. I am considering dropping 150k because I have always believed Fordham to be an admirable law school, and somewhere I'd be proud to attend. In addition, I feel like an acceptance into Fordham gives credit to my undergraduate GPA and LSAT (where as I could have done considerably worse and probably still been accepted to CUNY). Also, I have it in my head that I have a better chance of getting a job graduating from Fordham-- even though it is nowhere close to guaranteed at either/or any school. Whether or not all that is worth the money Fordham requires is why I'm here.


These are weird reasons for choosing a school....

Yes, the job prospects at Fordham are better, but that doesn't mean it's worth spending 150k+ on the degree.

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romothesavior
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Re: PLEASE HELP! Fordham (sticker) vs. CUNY

Postby romothesavior » Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:41 pm

:!: Neither, but CUNY is easily credited between the two.

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JCFindley
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Re: PLEASE HELP! Fordham (sticker) vs. CUNY

Postby JCFindley » Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:42 pm

locthebloke wrote:

BlackOctober wrote:However, I'm a total sucker for the rankings and the pride that the Fordham name would give me is hard to let go


Pfffffftt! Haha I'm sorry to be nasty but are you fucking kidding me? Get your head out of the sand, friend. A market filled with Columbia, NYU, Cornell and out of state Ivy grads and you think the "Fordham name" is going to do anything for you?? They'll all be ahead of you in the interview line, bud.



I wasn't going to comment on this thread as it really comes down to whether YOU think Fordham is worth the extra money. The job prospects are better than NYLS period and since the Fordham hater has come out to play, I might as well post.

As for the above quote, you could really say the same thing about any school besides HYS; REALLY, you think graduating from NYU will mean JACK with all the HLS grads in NYC? They'll be ahead of you in the interview line, idiot!

locthebloke wrote:Sigh, CUNY if you must, and it's not even close. You're not going to find a legal job as a CUNY grad, but at least the school is cheap and your debt won't be life ruining, especially if you're commuting from home.

It's a no brainer friend. I honestly can't even fathom why you'd consider Fordham. What upside is there? Especially if you want to do PI. At least CUNY has a niche reputation as being a PI school.


And Cooly has a good space law program. Fordham actually does have an outstanding PI program but a lot of the class goes for the $$$ with big law. If you are in NYC drop in and talk to the PI folks and have them show you.

I am not saying Fordham with 150K of debt would or wouldn't be worth it but it IS an outstanding school and it does have a broad reaching and active alumni group that really can help YOU find a job.

FWIW, criminal law, regardless of the side, is usually considered PI.

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romothesavior
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Re: PLEASE HELP! Fordham (sticker) vs. CUNY

Postby romothesavior » Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:47 pm

Oh their job prospects are better than NYLS? Oh well then pardon me, I guess it is worth a quarter of a million dollars then.

In other news, I can throw a baseball harder than my thirteen year old brother so I am gonna quit my job and go try out for the big leagues.

BlackOctober
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Re: PLEASE HELP! Fordham (sticker) vs. CUNY

Postby BlackOctober » Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:50 pm

Bronck wrote:
BlackOctober wrote:I suppose that the "upside" of Fordham is that it is ranked far higher than CUNY, and is generally considered a more respected/prestigious school. I am considering dropping 150k because I have always believed Fordham to be an admirable law school, and somewhere I'd be proud to attend. In addition, I feel like an acceptance into Fordham gives credit to my undergraduate GPA and LSAT (where as I could have done considerably worse and probably still been accepted to CUNY). Also, I have it in my head that I have a better chance of getting a job graduating from Fordham-- even though it is nowhere close to guaranteed at either/or any school. Whether or not all that is worth the money Fordham requires is why I'm here.


These are weird reasons for choosing a school....

Yes, the job prospects at Fordham are better, but that doesn't mean it's worth spending 150k+ on the degree.


I agree. 1) I've never heard anyone use those reasons before (at least the LSAT/GPA one) when trying to decide on a school, but I'm going to attribute them to me being super over-analytical and really trying to make the most worthwhile decision overall. 2) So, since it sounds like you're not sure if Fordham is worth the price tag, your suggestion is CUNY?
Last edited by BlackOctober on Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

law2015
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Re: PLEASE HELP! Fordham (sticker) vs. CUNY

Postby law2015 » Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:50 pm

Cuny is the easy choice here considering you want to go into PI. Even if you decided to go for biglaw, you would be looking at one in five odds and IMO its not worth paying 150k.

law2015
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Re: PLEASE HELP! Fordham (sticker) vs. CUNY

Postby law2015 » Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:57 pm

Idk why this poll is tied when the OP said he wants to do PI. People who chose Fordham should share their reasoning.

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Robespierre
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Re: PLEASE HELP! Fordham (sticker) vs. CUNY

Postby Robespierre » Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:05 pm

BlackOctober wrote:PI is what I could honestly see myself enjoying and practicing for the length of a career, but I'm also interested in Criminal. If I was spending that sort of money at Fordham, I would probably feel obliged to go through OCI.

Also, I'm not sure what my debt would look like once out of Fordham, but I'm so afraid to spend $150,000 on a legal education ITE. Especially, if I'm so interested in PI and could attend CUNY. However, I'm a total sucker for the rankings and the pride that the Fordham name would give me is hard to let go.

Thanks for all of your replies so far!


Wait, I don't understand the bolded. How much $ would you owe in loans coming out of each school?

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flem
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Re: PLEASE HELP! Fordham (sticker) vs. CUNY

Postby flem » Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:09 pm

romothesavior wrote:Oh their job prospects are better than NYLS? Oh well then pardon me, I guess it is worth a quarter of a million dollars then.

In other news, I can throw a baseball harder than my thirteen year old brother so I am gonna quit my job and go try out for the big leagues.


TBF, I don't know why NYLS was brought up.

CUNY is kind of niche-y, and at least it's cheap if you end up boned. PI is hard to get. I'd rather be 45K in debt and unemployed than 150-200K if you strike out at Fordham.

abc12345675
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Re: PLEASE HELP! Fordham (sticker) vs. CUNY

Postby abc12345675 » Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:10 pm

law2015 wrote:Idk why this poll is tied when the OP said he wants to do PI. People who chose Fordham should share their reasoning.


Because plans change. And if he goes to CUNY he doesn't have the option to change his mind

CanadianWolf
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Re: PLEASE HELP! Fordham (sticker) vs. CUNY

Postby CanadianWolf » Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:17 pm

CUNY.

OP: Are you willing to share your numbers ?

BlackOctober
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Re: PLEASE HELP! Fordham (sticker) vs. CUNY

Postby BlackOctober » Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:26 pm

Robespierre wrote:
BlackOctober wrote:PI is what I could honestly see myself enjoying and practicing for the length of a career, but I'm also interested in Criminal. If I was spending that sort of money at Fordham, I would probably feel obliged to go through OCI.

Also, I'm not sure what my debt would look like once out of Fordham, but I'm so afraid to spend $150,000 on a legal education ITE. Especially, if I'm so interested in PI and could attend CUNY. However, I'm a total sucker for the rankings and the pride that the Fordham name would give me is hard to let go.

Thanks for all of your replies so far!


Wait, I don't understand the bolded. How much $ would you owe in loans coming out of each school?


I am lucky enough to have my parents helping me out as much as they possibly can, so I'd be coming out of CUNY with no debt, and Fordham with about -$80k.

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flem
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Re: PLEASE HELP! Fordham (sticker) vs. CUNY

Postby flem » Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:28 pm

BlackOctober wrote:I am lucky enough to have my parents helping me out as much as they possibly can, so I'd be coming out of CUNY with no debt, and Fordham with about -$80k.


Well, that's different.

Can you demonstrate actual interest in PI on your resume? What do you actually want to do?

If you say help people I'm going to kill you because that's a dumb answer.

Worthwhile PI is as hard or harder to get than biglaw jobs. They can be just as selective and prestige-whorey. If you want to be a public defender or something, then you're good. If you want high profile stuff, that's different.

A lot of law students enter with some vague notion of wanting to do public interest work, only to find out they don't like it because they don't like working with poors or there isn't enough money in it or whatever. How sure are you that's what you want to do? If you're even slightly unsure I'd take Fordham for 80K.

ahnhub
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Re: PLEASE HELP! Fordham (sticker) vs. CUNY

Postby ahnhub » Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:36 pm

BlackOctober wrote: I am lucky enough to have my parents helping me out as much as they possibly can, so I'd be coming out of CUNY with no debt, and Fordham with about -$80k.


This information might have tamped down some of the anger ITT. Presuming your parents are wealthy enough to do this without bleeding themselves dry, most people would say Fordham at 80K is a very manageable risk. CUNY seems to operate in a somewhat strange world of its own--I talked with a rep from the school at a career fair, and their whole vibe was so different from any other law school I didn't know what to make of it.

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Robespierre
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Re: PLEASE HELP! Fordham (sticker) vs. CUNY

Postby Robespierre » Tue Jul 03, 2012 4:13 pm

BlackOctober wrote:
Robespierre wrote:
BlackOctober wrote:PI is what I could honestly see myself enjoying and practicing for the length of a career, but I'm also interested in Criminal. If I was spending that sort of money at Fordham, I would probably feel obliged to go through OCI.

Also, I'm not sure what my debt would look like once out of Fordham, but I'm so afraid to spend $150,000 on a legal education ITE. Especially, if I'm so interested in PI and could attend CUNY. However, I'm a total sucker for the rankings and the pride that the Fordham name would give me is hard to let go.

Thanks for all of your replies so far!


Wait, I don't understand the bolded. How much $ would you owe in loans coming out of each school?


I am lucky enough to have my parents helping me out as much as they possibly can, so I'd be coming out of CUNY with no debt, and Fordham with about -$80k.


OK. Glad I asked. Fordham, then. But CUNY is still the answer if you are dead set on PI. That's its niche, and you could avoid the scary 80K in debt.

BlackOctober
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Re: PLEASE HELP! Fordham (sticker) vs. CUNY

Postby BlackOctober » Tue Jul 03, 2012 5:46 pm

ahnhub wrote:
BlackOctober wrote: I am lucky enough to have my parents helping me out as much as they possibly can, so I'd be coming out of CUNY with no debt, and Fordham with about -$80k.


This information might have tamped down some of the anger ITT. Presuming your parents are wealthy enough to do this without bleeding themselves dry, most people would say Fordham at 80K is a very manageable risk. CUNY seems to operate in a somewhat strange world of its own--I talked with a rep from the school at a career fair, and their whole vibe was so different from any other law school I didn't know what to make of it.


How so?

BlackOctober
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Re: PLEASE HELP! Fordham (sticker) vs. CUNY

Postby BlackOctober » Tue Jul 03, 2012 5:48 pm

Robespierre wrote:
BlackOctober wrote:
Robespierre wrote:
BlackOctober wrote:PI is what I could honestly see myself enjoying and practicing for the length of a career, but I'm also interested in Criminal. If I was spending that sort of money at Fordham, I would probably feel obliged to go through OCI.

Also, I'm not sure what my debt would look like once out of Fordham, but I'm so afraid to spend $150,000 on a legal education ITE. Especially, if I'm so interested in PI and could attend CUNY. However, I'm a total sucker for the rankings and the pride that the Fordham name would give me is hard to let go.

Thanks for all of your replies so far!


Wait, I don't understand the bolded. How much $ would you owe in loans coming out of each school?


I am lucky enough to have my parents helping me out as much as they possibly can, so I'd be coming out of CUNY with no debt, and Fordham with about -$80k.


OK. Glad I asked. Fordham, then. But CUNY is still the answer if you are dead set on PI. That's its niche, and you could avoid the scary 80K in debt.


Very true. Thanks a lot for your input!

ahnhub
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Re: PLEASE HELP! Fordham (sticker) vs. CUNY

Postby ahnhub » Tue Jul 03, 2012 7:17 pm

BlackOctober wrote:
ahnhub wrote:
BlackOctober wrote: I am lucky enough to have my parents helping me out as much as they possibly can, so I'd be coming out of CUNY with no debt, and Fordham with about -$80k.


This information might have tamped down some of the anger ITT. Presuming your parents are wealthy enough to do this without bleeding themselves dry, most people would say Fordham at 80K is a very manageable risk. CUNY seems to operate in a somewhat strange world of its own--I talked with a rep from the school at a career fair, and their whole vibe was so different from any other law school I didn't know what to make of it.


How so?



It was a lady, and all she talked about was the types of things I think most law school admissions people avoid talking about with prospective students: considering the cost of your degree, helping the indigent and needy, learning entrepreneurial and small business skills, being able to fend for yourself.

A Brooklyn Law school rep was there too, and he mostly talked about what kind of person should want to be a lawyer, and what being a lawyer entails: the very general things.

locthebloke
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Re: PLEASE HELP! Fordham (sticker) vs. CUNY

Postby locthebloke » Tue Jul 03, 2012 7:45 pm

@JCFindley

Just because Harvard grads will technically be ahead of NYU grads in the interview line, at least you have a fighting chance (and a good one) of getting an NY job with an NYU degree. How can anyone defend Fordham besides the truly delusional or perhaps a flustered Fordham student who is desperately trying to tell himself that his debt is worth it and he isn't scared.

There are 3 schools that are well above Fordham in the State of New York. Fordham is a classic trap school. It is neither a.) T14 or b.) A strong regional school that is the biggest/best in a given state/region (like say, Wisconsin). The OP does not have a scholarship. If you're considering law school outside these parameters, you should have a full or nearly full tuition scholarship that is guaranteed.

Fordham = so-so choice with great scholarship, awful one with little.

Truth hurts.




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