Criminal Defense--Where should I go? or wait?

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

Where do I go?

Fuck the 5-0 go now Wake(5k)
2
10%
Fuck the 5-0 go now Charlotte(almost full ride)
4
20%
Wait another fucking year and start LS at 31yo
14
70%
 
Total votes: 20

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RIPdirtmcgirt
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Criminal Defense--Where should I go? or wait?

Postby RIPdirtmcgirt » Sun Jul 01, 2012 6:31 pm

URM-30yo unemployed Oct 2011-162/3.0 June 2012= Pending --Only applying to NC schools, rejected at UNC, Duke. acmaricepted wake(5k/year), charlotte(almost full ride if 3.0), elon-withdrew, campbell-withdrew, nccu=withdrew. I wanted UNC.

I want to do local criminal defense in my hometown of Wilmington, NC primarily because I hate the fuckin cops here with a passion and because of the passion, i would be good at it. No interest in any other law.

I retook because I wanted Carolina. But I have paid seat deps for Wake and Charlotte. Should I go to Wake and have to borrow 55K per year or Charlotte and only have to borrow living expenses (20k) maybe more rent is inflated there due to DNC in Sept. or wait and reapply after I get my score back. Im confident it will be better not sure by how much. Last Oct, I studied none and didnt even know what types of questions would be on LSAT. This time I studied 45 days for at least 5 hours a day.

Now that I have been thinking, I don't know what benefit Wake would offer over Charlotte when it comes to what I want to do. Local Crim Def, right now I'm not even interested in working for anybody else because every job I've had sucks. And im not sure about waiting out another year because my unemployment would run out next april a few months before school starts.



What the fuck should I do?

jml8756
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Re: Criminal Defense--Where should I go? or wait?

Postby jml8756 » Sun Jul 01, 2012 6:51 pm

You want to be a criminal defense lawyer because you hate cops? That seems like a bad reason.

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Icculus
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Re: Criminal Defense--Where should I go? or wait?

Postby Icculus » Sun Jul 01, 2012 6:57 pm

jml8756 wrote:You want to be a criminal defense lawyer because you hate cops? That seems like a bad reason.

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Nova
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Re: Criminal Defense--Where should I go? or wait?

Postby Nova » Sun Jul 01, 2012 7:00 pm

Wake is not worth 165k+ debt not including interest. Your TTT is likely not worth COL. Reapply is the best option if you dont mind waiting. Seriously, a few more points could net you tens of thousands of dollars. Getting your new LSAT score next week will affect the responses you get.

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Teflon_Jeff
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Re: Criminal Defense--Where should I go? or wait?

Postby Teflon_Jeff » Sun Jul 01, 2012 7:07 pm

If you want to go criminal defense, the cheapest possible option is the best.

You will not make tons of money, thus you need little to no debt.

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catholicgirl
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Re: Criminal Defense--Where should I go? or wait?

Postby catholicgirl » Sun Jul 01, 2012 7:26 pm

RIPdirtmcgirt wrote:I want to do local criminal defense in my hometown of Wilmington, NC primarily because I hate the fuckin cops here with a passion and because of the passion, i would be good at it. No interest in any other law.


Uhhhhh...

Bad reason to go to law school. Also, neither of those schools are worth your money.

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RIPdirtmcgirt
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Re: Criminal Defense--Where should I go? or wait?

Postby RIPdirtmcgirt » Sun Jul 01, 2012 7:43 pm

Icculus wrote:
jml8756 wrote:You want to be a criminal defense lawyer because you hate cops? That seems like a bad reason.


Its personal. But I dont mind sharing.

Back when I was a senior in '04. Wireless routers werent as common as they are now and most people had them unsecured unlike now. Someone in my apt complex connected to mine and did some fucked up stuff. Put ads out on craiglist to set up robberies. I was considered a suspect and I can see why initially. My family didnt have alot of money to pay for a lawyer. They came and asked me about it and said my ip was used to set up craiglist ads. I was never arrested or charged but they harrassed me for almost 2 years. About two weeks after that when I was away for a weekend trip, they executed a search warrant in my absence. They took my computers, my xbox, my tv, my printer, the router that belonged to time warner anything that could be hooked up to a computer was what the warrant said. They also took a firearm that was legally licensed to me which I never got back along with the tv, they claim both were mislabeled and destroyed by the evidence dept as unclaimed property. I was never compensated for either. They left a copy of the warrant and the inventory of property on the table. What wasnt on the inventory was a fake rolex watch i bought in NY, it looked very real. It was missing and presumably stolen. I assume that one of them thought it might be real and wanted to keep or sell it. They also decided that while they were there they would fix a frozen pizza from my freezer and in my oven and eat on my plates which they left in the sink unwashed. As well as a few slices still on top of the stove. The absolute worst was that one of those fat fuckers took a shit in my toilet and didnt flush it and left it there until monday when i came back.

I needed a computer for school so I borrowed the money from my mother. A week later when I was walking back from class. Two detectives walk up on me and tell me they have another search warrant to look for more stuff. They take my brand new computer and all of my mail including the $1600 check that was supposed to be my rent and living money. I did get the check back but after the 6 month limit on cashing or depositing it. I was unable to get it reissued due to the owner of the business filing for bankruptcy.

That was it for the search warrants. After this, I borrowed $3000 from my elderly grandfather who was on a fixed income to hire an attorney. He is now deceased. I was able to pay half of it back before he died. When he died he had a house and $13k to his name and $4k debt. He obtained phone records from verizon that showed I was not in the areas of these crimes when they occurred based on the location of the nearest towers from my cell phone. He also obtained records from the college that showed I was using my card to get into buildings on campus and using it to print in the library at some of the times the robberys as well as the time someone used my wifi. He also got the system logs from the IT people on campus where I had used my password to login in engineering lab. The only thing we were not able to obtain was the tapes from cameras on campus they got overwritten every 45 days and this was over 45 days later.

He set up a meeting with the detectives and DA downtown and us to show them the overwhelming evidence against what they were accusing me of doing. They said that all of this meant nothing to them and that they thought i gave someone else my cell phone, id card and password while the crimes were happening. They also told me that they would make sure I went to jail. They told my lawyer they could not turn over any records to him yet because I was not charged and that the discovery process happens only then. From what we had been able to obtain publicly, the victims had identified the robber as a black man 5'7-5'10 and 215-240 lbs. Back then I was 6'4 and 180. Not even close. They still pursued me.

From
Fast forward another month, they went to my girlfriends parents house and asked to search there. They told her that they would make sure I got life in prison unless she told them everything about me. They made her cry and she says they laughed at her. They asked both her and me to take a voice stress test. My lawyer advised me not to take it but I would have been happy to. My gf took it but we never heard anything about a result. They also got the local cops from where I was originally from to search at my parents house and my brothers house. They also leaked my name as a suspect to the local media and I was harassed by them for about two weeks.

For the next almost 2 years, everytime I would start a new job, the cops would show up within the first two weeks asking to talk to me about being a suspect. For some reason, I was always let go within 90 days before the prbationary hiring was expired.

So yeah, thats the short version. You would hate cops too. I hate those motherfuckers so much after what happened to me. I think they are all a bunch of cocksucking crooks that dont care about justice. They just want to lock someone up whether its the right man or not. So yeah thats why I want to be a lawyer because I dont want to see them treat anyone else like I was treated.

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RIPdirtmcgirt
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Re: Criminal Defense--Where should I go? or wait?

Postby RIPdirtmcgirt » Sun Jul 01, 2012 7:44 pm

Teflon_Jeff wrote:If you want to go criminal defense, the cheapest possible option is the best.

You will not make tons of money, thus you need little to no debt.


Im not in this for the money

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RIPdirtmcgirt
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Re: Criminal Defense--Where should I go? or wait?

Postby RIPdirtmcgirt » Sun Jul 01, 2012 7:46 pm

Has anyone heard of schools reconsidering based on June LSAT if you were rejected? Specifically UNC?

CanadianWolf
Posts: 10439
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Re: Criminal Defense--Where should I go? or wait?

Postby CanadianWolf » Sun Jul 01, 2012 7:49 pm

Ask WFU about loan repayment plans for those pursuing public interest work. Ask WFU for more money.

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tedalbany
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Re: Criminal Defense--Where should I go? or wait?

Postby tedalbany » Sun Jul 01, 2012 7:53 pm

RIPdirtmcgirt wrote:
Teflon_Jeff wrote:If you want to go criminal defense, the cheapest possible option is the best.

You will not make tons of money, thus you need little to no debt.


Im not in this for the money


Obviously, but you're still going to have a hell of a time paying off six figures of debt on a 40k salary.

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SuperCerealBrah
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Re: Criminal Defense--Where should I go? or wait?

Postby SuperCerealBrah » Sun Jul 01, 2012 7:58 pm

tedalbany wrote:
RIPdirtmcgirt wrote:
Teflon_Jeff wrote:If you want to go criminal defense, the cheapest possible option is the best.

You will not make tons of money, thus you need little to no debt.


Im not in this for the money


Obviously, but you're still going to have a hell of a time paying off six figures of debt on a 40k salary.



OP, I hope you're not thinking about having a family or buying a house anytime soon. If thats the case, then I say why not? If you're single and have no dependents, a little money can go a long way. However, your mind could change on that over time. But paying back loans will still be very hard.


Edited because I am apparently terrible at grammar.
Last edited by SuperCerealBrah on Sun Jul 01, 2012 8:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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flem
Posts: 12949
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Re: Criminal Defense--Where should I go? or wait?

Postby flem » Sun Jul 01, 2012 8:00 pm

I have a friend who went to Charlotte School of Law. He got employment-pwned and hung a shingle.

180 username by the way

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JCFindley
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Re: Criminal Defense--Where should I go? or wait?

Postby JCFindley » Sun Jul 01, 2012 8:20 pm

RIPdirtmcgirt wrote:
Icculus wrote:
jml8756 wrote:You want to be a criminal defense lawyer because you hate cops? That seems like a bad reason.


Its personal. But I dont mind sharing.

Back when I was a senior in '04. Wireless routers werent as common as they are now and most people had them unsecured unlike now. Someone in my apt complex connected to mine and did some fucked up stuff. Put ads out on craiglist to set up robberies. I was considered a suspect and I can see why initially. My family didnt have alot of money to pay for a lawyer. They came and asked me about it and said my ip was used to set up craiglist ads. I was never arrested or charged but they harrassed me for almost 2 years. About two weeks after that when I was away for a weekend trip, they executed a search warrant in my absence. They took my computers, my xbox, my tv, my printer, the router that belonged to time warner anything that could be hooked up to a computer was what the warrant said. They also took a firearm that was legally licensed to me which I never got back along with the tv, they claim both were mislabeled and destroyed by the evidence dept as unclaimed property. I was never compensated for either. They left a copy of the warrant and the inventory of property on the table. What wasnt on the inventory was a fake rolex watch i bought in NY, it looked very real. It was missing and presumably stolen. I assume that one of them thought it might be real and wanted to keep or sell it. They also decided that while they were there they would fix a frozen pizza from my freezer and in my oven and eat on my plates which they left in the sink unwashed. As well as a few slices still on top of the stove. The absolute worst was that one of those fat fuckers took a shit in my toilet and didnt flush it and left it there until monday when i came back.

I needed a computer for school so I borrowed the money from my mother. A week later when I was walking back from class. Two detectives walk up on me and tell me they have another search warrant to look for more stuff. They take my brand new computer and all of my mail including the $1600 check that was supposed to be my rent and living money. I did get the check back but after the 6 month limit on cashing or depositing it. I was unable to get it reissued due to the owner of the business filing for bankruptcy.

That was it for the search warrants. After this, I borrowed $3000 from my elderly grandfather who was on a fixed income to hire an attorney. He is now deceased. I was able to pay half of it back before he died. When he died he had a house and $13k to his name and $4k debt. He obtained phone records from verizon that showed I was not in the areas of these crimes when they occurred based on the location of the nearest towers from my cell phone. He also obtained records from the college that showed I was using my card to get into buildings on campus and using it to print in the library at some of the times the robberys as well as the time someone used my wifi. He also got the system logs from the IT people on campus where I had used my password to login in engineering lab. The only thing we were not able to obtain was the tapes from cameras on campus they got overwritten every 45 days and this was over 45 days later.

He set up a meeting with the detectives and DA downtown and us to show them the overwhelming evidence against what they were accusing me of doing. They said that all of this meant nothing to them and that they thought i gave someone else my cell phone, id card and password while the crimes were happening. They also told me that they would make sure I went to jail. They told my lawyer they could not turn over any records to him yet because I was not charged and that the discovery process happens only then. From what we had been able to obtain publicly, the victims had identified the robber as a black man 5'7-5'10 and 215-240 lbs. Back then I was 6'4 and 180. Not even close. They still pursued me.

From
Fast forward another month, they went to my girlfriends parents house and asked to search there. They told her that they would make sure I got life in prison unless she told them everything about me. They made her cry and she says they laughed at her. They asked both her and me to take a voice stress test. My lawyer advised me not to take it but I would have been happy to. My gf took it but we never heard anything about a result. They also got the local cops from where I was originally from to search at my parents house and my brothers house. They also leaked my name as a suspect to the local media and I was harassed by them for about two weeks.

For the next almost 2 years, everytime I would start a new job, the cops would show up within the first two weeks asking to talk to me about being a suspect. For some reason, I was always let go within 90 days before the prbationary hiring was expired.

So yeah, thats the short version. You would hate cops too. I hate those motherfuckers so much after what happened to me. I think they are all a bunch of cocksucking crooks that dont care about justice. They just want to lock someone up whether its the right man or not. So yeah thats why I want to be a lawyer because I dont want to see them treat anyone else like I was treated.


And I figured it was just cause they have an unmarked Camaro Z28 as a patrol car.

Yeah, I can see the reasoning and is why I want to go into either the DA or PD office myself. (Both serve a very real function in keeping America from becoming a police state.) Though, I have no animosity towards cops myself, unchecked power is a very dangerous thing.

Anyway, wake if you can get more money OR if you can get the loans forgiven working in criminal defense. CLT is not a good school and it is a LONG way from ILM if you are in fact wanting to make connections, network and eventually work in Wilmington.

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Wily
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Re: Criminal Defense--Where should I go? or wait?

Postby Wily » Sun Jul 01, 2012 8:25 pm

OP, that's a really sad story. Are you African-American by chance? That would make the part where they confused you with the real suspect make more sense.

I don't have much to add about these schools because I don't know much about NC, but if you're black, you should be expecting more of a boost from your URM status.

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RIPdirtmcgirt
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Re: Criminal Defense--Where should I go? or wait?

Postby RIPdirtmcgirt » Sun Jul 01, 2012 8:34 pm

JCFindley wrote:
RIPdirtmcgirt wrote:
Icculus wrote:
jml8756 wrote:You want to be a criminal defense lawyer because you hate cops? That seems like a bad reason.


Its personal. But I dont mind sharing.

Back when I was a senior in '04. Wireless routers werent as common as they are now and most people had them unsecured unlike now. Someone in my apt complex connected to mine and did some fucked up stuff. Put ads out on craiglist to set up robberies. I was considered a suspect and I can see why initially. My family didnt have alot of money to pay for a lawyer. They came and asked me about it and said my ip was used to set up craiglist ads. I was never arrested or charged but they harrassed me for almost 2 years. About two weeks after that when I was away for a weekend trip, they executed a search warrant in my absence. They took my computers, my xbox, my tv, my printer, the router that belonged to time warner anything that could be hooked up to a computer was what the warrant said. They also took a firearm that was legally licensed to me which I never got back along with the tv, they claim both were mislabeled and destroyed by the evidence dept as unclaimed property. I was never compensated for either. They left a copy of the warrant and the inventory of property on the table. What wasnt on the inventory was a fake rolex watch i bought in NY, it looked very real. It was missing and presumably stolen. I assume that one of them thought it might be real and wanted to keep or sell it. They also decided that while they were there they would fix a frozen pizza from my freezer and in my oven and eat on my plates which they left in the sink unwashed. As well as a few slices still on top of the stove. The absolute worst was that one of those fat fuckers took a shit in my toilet and didnt flush it and left it there until monday when i came back.

I needed a computer for school so I borrowed the money from my mother. A week later when I was walking back from class. Two detectives walk up on me and tell me they have another search warrant to look for more stuff. They take my brand new computer and all of my mail including the $1600 check that was supposed to be my rent and living money. I did get the check back but after the 6 month limit on cashing or depositing it. I was unable to get it reissued due to the owner of the business filing for bankruptcy.

That was it for the search warrants. After this, I borrowed $3000 from my elderly grandfather who was on a fixed income to hire an attorney. He is now deceased. I was able to pay half of it back before he died. When he died he had a house and $13k to his name and $4k debt. He obtained phone records from verizon that showed I was not in the areas of these crimes when they occurred based on the location of the nearest towers from my cell phone. He also obtained records from the college that showed I was using my card to get into buildings on campus and using it to print in the library at some of the times the robberys as well as the time someone used my wifi. He also got the system logs from the IT people on campus where I had used my password to login in engineering lab. The only thing we were not able to obtain was the tapes from cameras on campus they got overwritten every 45 days and this was over 45 days later.

He set up a meeting with the detectives and DA downtown and us to show them the overwhelming evidence against what they were accusing me of doing. They said that all of this meant nothing to them and that they thought i gave someone else my cell phone, id card and password while the crimes were happening. They also told me that they would make sure I went to jail. They told my lawyer they could not turn over any records to him yet because I was not charged and that the discovery process happens only then. From what we had been able to obtain publicly, the victims had identified the robber as a black man 5'7-5'10 and 215-240 lbs. Back then I was 6'4 and 180. Not even close. They still pursued me.

From
Fast forward another month, they went to my girlfriends parents house and asked to search there. They told her that they would make sure I got life in prison unless she told them everything about me. They made her cry and she says they laughed at her. They asked both her and me to take a voice stress test. My lawyer advised me not to take it but I would have been happy to. My gf took it but we never heard anything about a result. They also got the local cops from where I was originally from to search at my parents house and my brothers house. They also leaked my name as a suspect to the local media and I was harassed by them for about two weeks.

For the next almost 2 years, everytime I would start a new job, the cops would show up within the first two weeks asking to talk to me about being a suspect. For some reason, I was always let go within 90 days before the prbationary hiring was expired.

So yeah, thats the short version. You would hate cops too. I hate those motherfuckers so much after what happened to me. I think they are all a bunch of cocksucking crooks that dont care about justice. They just want to lock someone up whether its the right man or not. So yeah thats why I want to be a lawyer because I dont want to see them treat anyone else like I was treated.


And I figured it was just cause they have an unmarked Camaro Z28 as a patrol car.

Yeah, I can see the reasoning and is why I want to go into either the DA or PD office myself. (Both serve a very real function in keeping America from becoming a police state.) Though, I have no animosity towards cops myself, unchecked power is a very dangerous thing.

Anyway, wake if you can get more money OR if you can get the loans forgiven working in criminal defense. CLT is not a good school and it is a LONG way from ILM if you are in fact wanting to make connections, network and eventually work in Wilmington.



I was waiting for the score to talk to wake again about $. I will probably even call UNC and ask to reconsider if i murdered the june lsat. Wake does have a public forgiveness program unsure if it applies to criminal defense generally or if you have to work for a non profit. I would prefer to work for myself.

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RIPdirtmcgirt
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Re: Criminal Defense--Where should I go? or wait?

Postby RIPdirtmcgirt » Sun Jul 01, 2012 8:36 pm

Wily wrote:OP, that's a really sad story. Are you African-American by chance? That would make the part where they confused you with the real suspect make more sense.

I don't have much to add about these schools because I don't know much about NC, but if you're black, you should be expecting more of a boost from your URM status.


yes I am black. The suspect was 5'7-5'10 and 215-240 lbs. though and back then I was a lanky 6'4 180lb

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Wily
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Re: Criminal Defense--Where should I go? or wait?

Postby Wily » Sun Jul 01, 2012 8:37 pm

RIPdirtmcgirt wrote:
Wily wrote:OP, that's a really sad story. Are you African-American by chance? That would make the part where they confused you with the real suspect make more sense.

I don't have much to add about these schools because I don't know much about NC, but if you're black, you should be expecting more of a boost from your URM status.


yes I am black. The suspect was 5'7-5'10 and 215-240 lbs. though and back then I was a lanky 6'4 180lb


I'm really surprised that you didn't get into UNC with a URM boost. Duke would be a long shot with a 3.0, but there are several other T14's that you can get into if you retook and scored in the high 160's.

Good luck.

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Nova
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Re: Criminal Defense--Where should I go? or wait?

Postby Nova » Sun Jul 01, 2012 8:40 pm

RIPdirtmcgirt wrote:
Wily wrote:OP, that's a really sad story. Are you African-American by chance? That would make the part where they confused you with the real suspect make more sense.

I don't have much to add about these schools because I don't know much about NC, but if you're black, you should be expecting more of a boost from your URM status.


yes I am black. The suspect was 5'7-5'10 and 215-240 lbs. though and back then I was a lanky 6'4 180lb


Is that a self tar? Interesting hair style.

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RIPdirtmcgirt
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Re: Criminal Defense--Where should I go? or wait?

Postby RIPdirtmcgirt » Sun Jul 01, 2012 8:48 pm

Nova wrote:
RIPdirtmcgirt wrote:
Wily wrote:OP, that's a really sad story. Are you African-American by chance? That would make the part where they confused you with the real suspect make more sense.

I don't have much to add about these schools because I don't know much about NC, but if you're black, you should be expecting more of a boost from your URM status.


yes I am black. The suspect was 5'7-5'10 and 215-240 lbs. though and back then I was a lanky 6'4 180lb


Is that a self tar? Interesting hair style.


lol no thats odb
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.p ... t%20Mcgirt

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JCFindley
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Re: Criminal Defense--Where should I go? or wait?

Postby JCFindley » Sun Jul 01, 2012 8:51 pm

RIPdirtmcgirt wrote:
I was waiting for the score to talk to wake again about $. I will probably even call UNC and ask to reconsider if i murdered the june lsat. Wake does have a public forgiveness program unsure if it applies to criminal defense generally or if you have to work for a non profit. I would prefer to work for myself.


That is something to check into. Generally working for a DA or PD office WILL suffice but not sure how it works with your own shingle. You will probably need to get some experience with a PD or DA anyway to really get started but ten years is a long time if that is what it takes to forgive the loans.

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Teflon_Jeff
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Re: Criminal Defense--Where should I go? or wait?

Postby Teflon_Jeff » Sun Jul 01, 2012 11:17 pm

RIPdirtmcgirt wrote:
Teflon_Jeff wrote:If you want to go criminal defense, the cheapest possible option is the best.

You will not make tons of money, thus you need little to no debt.


Im not in this for the money


Obviously. Hence, you want as little debt as possible to make an actual living doing defense work.

Put another way, it's hard to "Screw the 5-0" if you have to take other cases to pay the bills. If you have no debt, you can take all the "screw the 5-0" cases you like.

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kalvano
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Re: Criminal Defense--Where should I go? or wait?

Postby kalvano » Mon Jul 02, 2012 2:28 am

1) You want the least-expensive school. Prestige isn't as important as commitment to the work.

2) Regardless of how terrible what happened to you is, it is a terrible reason to go to law school and to be a defense attorney. You will be far more miserable being a defense attorney for those reasons than you are right now. Don't go to law school, go do something productive with your life.

moreprejthanprob
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Re: Criminal Defense--Where should I go? or wait?

Postby moreprejthanprob » Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:45 pm

kalvano wrote:2) Regardless of how terrible what happened to you is, it is a terrible reason to go to law school and to be a defense attorney. You will be far more miserable being a defense attorney for those reasons than you are right now. Don't go to law school, go do something productive with your life.


I don't know enough about the OP's personal circumstances, and I would concur that this it's probably not the best plan if this is the SOLE factor in consideration for wanting to be an attorney, but I can think of a lot worse reasons.

As far as not wanting to work for anyone else, ever, this is probably what's more problematic about your posts than wanting to get into criminal defense because of a distrust of law enforcement. It's very difficult to go straight into a solo practice, and even public defenders have bosses, so you should probably get used to that idea.

Also, you should realize that criminal defense work is often thankless and in most cases is a piece of the same outcome-reproducing system that allows [similar scenarios as] what happened to you to occur to countless others. Obviously however, talented, dedicated criminal defense lawyers are always in need and as someone who is also interested in the same work, I find your story admirable.

As far as choosing a school is concerned, I do agree with the others that limiting your debt is probably the best route. Good luck with everything.

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kalvano
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Re: Criminal Defense--Where should I go? or wait?

Postby kalvano » Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:54 pm

Criminal defense attorneys don't spend their days crossing cops and pleading with juries about how the system has unfairly stacked the deck against a poor, innocent client.

They make plea bargains with prosecutors for people who are, by and large, guilty as sin.




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